Mini 471: End.

[pickemgenius]

Is Village Idiot an actual role? Or is it just someone that's stupid? [/noob]

Cause pickemgenius sure acts like one, no offense.

No.


How dare you....

[Adel]

Here you are trying to put FULL responsibility on me for whatever happens to you. It takes SEVEN votes to lynch you, you only have FOUR. Do you realize that out of those four votes, if you take out all the random and silly voting, only mine stays as a "valid vote"? If I was in your spot I wouldn't get too nervous if you were town because of that. Besides, if the random voters keep their vote on you, you still need THREE more votes to get lynched. I really don't see this happening anytime soon.

Yeah, I honestly thought it was six to lynch. Stupid mistake. I'm sorry for the confusion. I was lynched in about 10 hours earlier this week, so I might have overreacted.

My move may have been reckless and unusually offensive especially for page 2, but hey, at least I'm getting responses/results I wanted out of it. At least now you know, Adel, that you are under my loop. Weigh carefully every word you speak as they are going to be analyzed letter by letter. Be paranoid.

Check my birthdate and my number of game posts before you start threatening me. It isn't going to win you any games. Talk to ABR about it, and next time remember to look before you leap. You may even want to look through my games and see how many bandwagons I've successfully started day 1 (hint: about 5 out of 7) and carried through to lynch. If I was scum I would not be making this post, no, I would be getting you lynched in the next ten pages. And everyone else: please spare me the WIFOM noise, I am just telling the boy what is what.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I saw three votes on Adel in a row and smelled scum (even though BZ's was already there). The fact that you turned around and called

me

scum for being suspicious of a third vote being placed under stupid meta-game reasons hardly seems pro-town. Not liking early wagons =/= scum.

Would you go so far as to say what he did was anti-town ? If so, could you explain the reason ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Check my birthdate and my number of game posts before you start threatening me. It isn't going to win you any games. Talk to ABR about it, and next time remember to look before you leap. You may even want to look through my games and see how many bandwagons I've successfully started day 1 (hint: about 5 out of 7) and carried through to lynch. If I was scum I would not be making this post, no, I would be getting you lynched in the next ten pages. And everyone else: please spare me the WIFOM noise, I am just telling the boy what is what.

Eh ? Don't you have a 100% loss record ?

I just read the thread, noticed people suddenly get all serious after having made equally "stupid meta-game moves" and not get serious until a specific person gets targeted, and then both of them turning the attention to someone else... Meh, at the very least, I wanted to see how you guys were going to react.

When silly & random voting yields a bandwagon, there is something fishy going on. Placing a forth vote on someone on page two means that you are awfully willing to see a quicklynch based upon two or three posts from most people.

Read my sig ---> its true.

[Sir Tornado]

Read my sig ---> its true.

I disagree. It was a shame that this game was still running when Lowell made that comment, due to which I could not link it there and then. As you will see that is a "quicklynch". They do happen.

I can show you more games (check out the latest Jester mafia if you like) in which I am currently participating where we had lynches in about 12 hours or so. (that is 12 hours between the first and last vote)

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yes, but take into account three important fun-facts:

1) They seldom happen.

2) When they

do

happen, those last on it are always held responsible, as they should be. You can't get away with quicklynching a town.

3) You don't accuse someone of trying to quicklynch at -3.

[Blue Zebra]

Check my birthdate and my number of game posts before you start threatening me. It isn't going to win you any games. Talk to ABR about it, and next time remember to look before you leap. You may even want to look through my games and see how many bandwagons I've successfully started day 1 (hint: about 5 out of 7) and carried through to lynch. If I was scum I would not be making this post, no, I would be getting you lynched in the next ten pages. And everyone else: please spare me the WIFOM noise, I am just telling the boy what is what.

It looks like you're saying that he shouldn't be suspicious of you because you're good at getting people lynched. I'm not sure I like that.

[NabakovNabakov]

@Camisade: VI is an unofficial term coined by me to describe a horrible player. I have written volumes on the pros and cons of lynching them in other threads, you might even consider me an expert on the matter. Let's just hope I don't have to exercise my expertise here.

@ABR:
1)Quicklynches rarely happen, but they are often attempted. Botched quicklynches are usually the germ for D1 discussion.
2)I would probably say the vote was mildly anti-town because it wasn't helpful and was possibly harmful, but that doesn't mean it was malicous.

However

@Kravhen: Firstly, chill, dude. Secondly, I don't think you should be the one calling attention to the ways people are reacting, because I have never seen somebody get so defensive so fast. I also don't get why you continue to claim that your vote was valid. You voted her because she has confusing diagrams and I was uneasy about a bandwagon. Now you're trying to spin it off as a "valid" vote, and that's what really irks me. If your vote was stupid, say it was stupid, but I agree with Adel when she says that you're tying to turn this wagon into something more serious than it deserves to be.

@Adel: I agree largely with your analysis, but leave the threats behind. We all know you're an expert at wagoning townies and getting killed N1. I don't really think that's the kind of record you should be using to intimidate folks.

[Sir Tornado]

You may even want to look through my games and see how many bandwagons I've successfully started day 1 (hint: about 5 out of 7) and carried through to lynch.

And how many of them were correct lynches? (correct as in scum)

[kravhen]

@Nabakov: Don't say chill, dude =P I'm completely and always chill. I'm surprised to hear that I have gotten on the defensive so fast, what post are you referring to when you say that? What's more interesting is that from my point of you, it was you and Adel that first got "defensive fast".
I will continue to claim my vote is valid. I don't think you get what valid means here =P Obviously my "confusing diagrams" reason wasn't serious, mildly intended as a joke after I really went and took a look at them. I thought that'd be clear especially after the long post that follows my vote for Adel. Unless you skipped to my vote, then you read the reasons why I voted.

Don't say my vote was stupid. My vote created 3 pages of discussion so far and it wasn't a "OMG ADEL FUXKZ U STILZ" vote. I wanted to see Adel on the defensive, and I did. Heck, she threatened me with her birthday, something I have never seen before. Also once again the mention of evil me turning this wagon into something "serious and deadly". Ridiculous. I'm not going to repeat myself on that issue.

[kravhen]

EBWOP

"the long post BEFORE my vote for Adel, not following.."

[pickemgenius]

and it wasn't a "OMG ADEL FUXKZ U STILZ" vote.

My reputation is spreading throughout the masses

[NabakovNabakov]

You voted her because she has confusing diagrams and I was uneasy about a bandwagon.

The first part of that sentence covers the second part of your post. The second part of the sentence covers the first part of your post (confusing I know). My unease had nothing to do with the fact that Adel was being voted, I'm just uneasy with early wagons in general. If you had had 4 votes, I would have mentioned it too.

If you can't see where you're being defensive/losing your cool:

@Nabakov: I see where you're coming from, and to be honest, I didn't previously post after 100% analyzing the situation.

Here he is trying to relieve himself of responsibility when I turn up town.

Here you are trying to put FULL responsibility on me for whatever happens to you. It takes SEVEN votes to lynch you, you only have FOUR. Do you realize that out of those four votes, if you take out all the random and silly voting, only mine stays as a "valid vote"? If I was in your spot I wouldn't get too nervous if you were town because of that. Besides, if the random voters keep their vote on you, you still need THREE more votes to get lynched. I really don't see this happening anytime soon.

I just read the thread, noticed people suddenly get all serious after having made equally "stupid meta-game moves" and not get serious until a specific person gets targeted, and then both of them turning the attention to someone else... Meh, at the very least, I wanted to see how you guys were going to react.

When silly & random voting yields a bandwagon, there is something fishy going on. Placing a forth vote on someone on page two means that you are awfully willing to see a quicklynch based upon two or three posts from most people. How could you possibly be confident of someone's alignment on page two? Oh, that is right, if you are mafia than you know everyone else's alignment.

Once again, you are making my blowing my vote out of proportions and making it look horribly outrageous. I did not put the hammering vote on you. I also did not put you at Lynch -1. I put a fourth out of seven vote on you. And not any kind of fourth vote. This fourth vote is really the first valid one after 3 bandwagon votes. So just because there was a silly bandwagon i was supposed to not vote for you, or wait until the bandwagon dissapears before doing so? No way a silly bandwagon's getting in the way of my gut feeling that picked something up about you and made me drop one little valid vote.
Don't get me wrong though, if there was a 6-vote bandwagon on you, I wouldn't have voted. 6-vote bandwagon is ridiculous though.
If there was a 5-vote bandwagon, I probably would've had a bit of a hard time putting you at Lynch-1. Dont know what I would've done if that happened.

My vote's staying on Adel for now, my gut feeling is still there, and if you ever get nervous about 4 votes on Adel, well there are a couple of others that can take out their votes on her ( votes under "stupid metagame reasons" ) mine's staying.

With a vote that wasn't based upon solid analysis, on a player that said "what is with this wagon?". Page 2 is still randomness, yet you are willing to not only hop onto a silly wagon, but you are also willing to try to turn it serious and deadly, while avoiding responsibility for it.

unvote Albert B. Rampage vote:kravhen

My move may have been reckless and unusually offensive especially for page 2, but hey, at least I'm getting responses/results I wanted out of it. At least now you know, Adel, that you are under my loop. Weigh carefully every word you speak as they are going to be analyzed letter by letter. Be paranoid.

Do I really have to explain why that's defensive? I would be fine if it hewed closely to the logical side of thangs, but its full of repetition, emphasis by way of capitalization, and unnecesary superlatives. It smacks of "appeal to emotion" and you sound like you're under brutal attack, which in my eyes, you really aren't. The last part is just silly.

[Albert B. Rampage]

2)I would probably say the vote was mildly anti-town because it wasn't helpful and was possibly harmful, but that doesn't mean it was malicous.

I am not talking about the vote, I am talking about the FoS at you from kravhen. Would you go so far as to say it was anti-town, and perhaps scummy ?

[NabakovNabakov]

^^ Oh, I guess roughly the same principles apply. There's no need to go about FOS'ing people who are town (remember, this is my perspective on the matter), but I don't see it as part of a scummy master plan. Being FOS'd every so often keeps me on my toes. I'm not reading Kravhen as particuarlly anti-town at the moment, but I don't think he's being pro-town either. His over-defense seems more newbie than scummy.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Oh what's this I see?

NabakovNabakov

wrote:

Ok, it's mildly serious time, guys.

Pickem, I will unvote you if you can make a single post without caps lock.

Final Fos: ABR for dropping the third vote on Adel. If we lynch her now, we don't get any diagrams later.

It was all fun and nonsense until a few votes drop on Adel. Ohh crap now it's mildly serious time, scumbuddy Adel is in trouble, gotta get worked up and point at Albert. Adel then follows her scumbuddy Nabakov's initiative and votes for Albert accusing him of "jumping on a wagon without reason". Strangely enough, Nabakov's previous "Wagon: Teh Scummz who are they again Pickem?" didnt seem like it was jumping on a wagon without reason to Adel =/

How's this for a mildly serious post? =P

Unvote: CrashTextDummie

Vote: Adel

for being scum, also her complexe diagrams are meant to confuse the town..

FoS: NabakovNabakov

for being Adel's scumbuddy

FoS: CrashTextDummie

for being a lurker AKA sleeping in mafia mansion while his buddies are "out at work" apparently having a hard time escaping my wrath!![/b]

What does everyone make of this post ? Scummy wise, that is.

[Adel]

You may even want to look through my games and see how many bandwagons I've successfully started day 1 (hint: about 5 out of 7) and carried through to lynch.

And how many of them were correct lynches? (correct as in scum)

None. Not a single one of them. Think about it.

@NabNab: I only game him the pieces; he can build whatever he wants out of them.

[kravhen]

@Nabakov: You might be right on the first part when you say you would've gotten worked up no matter who would have gotten 4 votes. As for my overdefense, well it was meant as a counter to Adel's own overdefense quote post. That is why i don't see my posts being any more defensive than Adel's. The last part was meant for silliness and could make a mafia nervous, I thought.

I would've lost a bit of interest in Adel a while ago if she didnt react the way she did. Especially after the silly ending mentioned by Nabakov, I got a reply that basically meant "Yo kid i was born in the 70s, i cant be scum, show some respect, im older therefore better than u at wagonz yo". It just gets more interesting and fun with each of her reply.

Now I'll

Unvote: Adel

because that seems to be what some of you are waiting for. I also want to use this opportunity to shift some focus to those who still have their votes on Adel. For all we know they could be scum that placed their votes first disguised in randomvoteness and patiently waiting for lynch. Or they could be scumbuddies that think Adel's identity is compromised and dont dare defend her =P

Still too much is possible. I want to hear more from the silent ones. If you don't know what to say, then comment on the whole me VS Adel saga, tell us what you think. Talk.

[Adel]

lovely.

[Sir Tornado]

Kravhen:

Your post 43 says:

Oh what's this I see?

NabakovNabakov

wrote:

Ok, it's mildly serious time, guys.

Pickem, I will unvote you if you can make a single post without caps lock.

Final Fos: ABR for dropping the third vote on Adel. If we lynch her now, we don't get any diagrams later.

It was all fun and nonsense until a few votes drop on Adel. Ohh crap now it's mildly serious time, scumbuddy Adel is in trouble, gotta get worked up and point at Albert. Adel then follows her scumbuddy Nabakov's initiative and votes for Albert accusing him of "jumping on a wagon without reason". Strangely enough, Nabakov's previous "Wagon: Teh Scummz who are they again Pickem?" didnt seem like it was jumping on a wagon without reason to Adel =/

How's this for a mildly serious post? =P

Unvote: CrashTextDummie

Vote: Adel

for being scum, also her complexe diagrams are meant to confuse the town..

FoS: NabakovNabakov

for being Adel's scumbuddy

FoS: CrashTextDummie

for being a lurker AKA sleeping in mafia mansion while his buddies are "out at work" apparently having a hard time escaping my wrath!!

I originally took this in as a non serious random voting post, especially since you vote Adel and FOS 2 people with a lot of confidence (only random posts do that so early on in the game with no N0)

But, then, in your immediately next post, that is post 56, you say:

@Nabakov: I see where you're coming from, and to be honest, I didn't previously post after 100% analyzing the situation. I just read the thread, noticed people suddenly get all serious after having made equally "stupid meta-game moves" and not get serious until a specific person gets targeted, and then both of them turning the attention to someone else... Meh, at the very least, I wanted to see how you guys were going to react.

My vote's staying on Adel for now, my gut feeling is still there, and if you ever get nervous about 4 votes on Adel, well there are a couple of others that can take out their votes on her ( votes under "stupid metagame reasons" ) mine's staying.

This basically establishes that your vote, contrary to what you said in your earlier post was not random, nor was it metagaming.

On being asked by me regarding how it was not random or metagamed, you replied:

SirTornado you just quoted my vote: because she's scum... Take a look at the whole thread and you might find out what sparked the feeling in me that she's scum..

So now, we take a look at Adel's activities so far in this game upto your post 56 (that is until you said "your vote on Adel was not random).

1. Random vote on Blue Zebra
2. Random FOS on me
3. Comment about our ongoing chess match.
4. Comment about her (cheeky) sig.
5. Votes ABR for trying to quicklynch her (I put this down as some kind of OMGUS in my notes)
6. Comments on her diagrams

That's it.

Now, justify your statement:

SirTornado you just quoted my vote: because she's scum... Take a look at the whole thread and you might find out what sparked the feeling in me that she's scum..

This is my question/reply to your following request:

Still too much is possible. I want to hear more from the silent ones. If you don't know what to say, then comment on the whole me VS Adel saga, tell us what you think. Talk.

[kravhen]

Really? Let me remind you why your voted for Adel:

wrote:
Vote: Adel for being scum, also her complexe diagrams are meant to confuse the town...

If that wasn't metagaming or random, then what was it? If that was metagaming (or even random) then why are you saying others should take their votes off her because they are "stupid metagame reasons"?

You spoke as if you had just read the line starting with "Vote:" because you took "for being scum + complex diagrams" as the reason for my vote and called it random and metagaming. ( And if it was the sole reason, it would be random alright ) I've told you that already:

SirTornado you just quoted my vote: because she's scum... Take a look at the whole thread and you might find out what sparked the feeling in me that she's scum..

I do notice I wrote "take a look at the whole thread"... I think I meant take a look at my whole post since you just reffered to my vote line and the silly reason next to it, without referring to the rest of the post above the vote line at all, which is

It was all fun and nonsense until a few votes drop on Adel. Ohh crap now it's mildly serious time, scumbuddy Adel is in trouble, gotta get worked up and point at Albert. Adel then follows her scumbuddy Nabakov's initiative and votes for Albert accusing him of "jumping on a wagon without reason". Strangely enough, Nabakov's previous "Wagon: Teh Scummz who are they again Pickem?" didnt seem like it was jumping on a wagon without reason to Adel =/

There's a reason for the confidence. It's how I play. My theory is voting with extreme confidence that the votee is scum can not only throw the scum off balance and overwhelm him and make it more probable to react unusually and being paranoid, but it somehow helps me see things clearer when I have a clear target as opposed to when my target is a group of people towards whom I have mixed feelings of uncertainty.

Does that make a slight bit of sense?

Now I shall quote myself for great justice

Still too much is possible. I want to hear more from the silent ones. If you don't know what to say, then comment on the whole me VS Adel saga, tell us what you think. Talk.

[camisade]

Now I'll

Unvote: Adel

because that seems to be what some of you are waiting for. I also want to use this opportunity to shift some focus to those who still have their votes on Adel. For all we know they could be scum that placed their votes first disguised in randomvoteness and patiently waiting for lynch. Or they could be scumbuddies that think Adel's identity is compromised and dont dare defend her =P

I want to know why you're unvoting Adel just to get the suspicion off of you. You even say in your post that's why you unvoted, which is very suspicious. Then you want to question the people who did the exact same thing you did?

[kravhen]

I'm unvoting because it seems as long as my vote's there, the focus stays on me and Adel. It doesn't mean she's off of my suspicion list, I just want to hear from the more silent ones from now. For all we know, there could be scum among them taking advantage of not being in the spotlight.

I also never said I unvoted to take the suspicion off of me. If you wanna quote me, quote me right. "I want to question the people who did the exact same thing you did" ? Who else has done what I did? Why do you suddenly come out of lurking mode when time has come for you and fellow lurkers to enter the questioning room?

[Sir Tornado]

You may even want to look through my games and see how many bandwagons I've successfully started day 1 (hint: about 5 out of 7) and carried through to lynch.

And how many of them were correct lynches? (correct as in scum)

None. Not a single one of them. Think about it.

Er... yeah. I am thinking about it.

BTW, just so I get the things correctly:

Check my birthdate and my number of game posts before you start threatening me. It isn't going to win you any games. Talk to ABR about it, and next time remember to look before you leap. You may even want to look through my games and see how many bandwagons I've successfully started day 1 (hint: about 5 out of 7) and carried through to lynch. If I was scum I would not be making this post, no, I would be getting you lynched in the next ten pages.

I may be wrong in my interpretation, but it gets a bit confusing here. Are you saying that had you been scum, you would have carried out the Kravhen bandwagon straight away? And, because you are not carrying it out, you intend to tell him that you are not scum?

If it is then, I know you said:

And everyone else: please spare me the WIFOM noise, I am just telling the boy what is what.

But I will still say it: WIFOM! And, your comment about knowing it is WIFOM and telling us not to mention it sounds sort of like saying

"I know you will call this WIFOM, but I am still saying it, so it is not a WIFOM"

, which is even more WIFOMish.

[Blue Zebra]

I also want to use this opportunity to shift some focus to those who still have their votes on Adel. For all we know they could be scum that placed their votes first disguised in randomvoteness and patiently waiting for lynch. Or they could be scumbuddies that think Adel's identity is compromised and dont dare defend her =P

I don't like this. How are either of those possibilities more likely than the votes just being lingering random votes?

BTW, pickem is active lurking, which is worse than regular lurking.

unvote, vote: pickemgenius