Mini 458 - Game over!

[NabakovNabakov]

PAGE 30!!


Re-read update: Page 18 where the CKD wagon first takes shape: I found one post in particular very interesting:

Thanks for breaking down my posts…all you really have shown, is that I believe Kate and J-man are guilty and I am looking for their 3rd. You have also demonstrated how I have been trying to get the group to questions others as not to lynch the VI.

you pressured kate, hard and relentlessly, clearly attempting to establish a bandwagon based on nothing more than her defending J-man. Once your bandwagon clearly was unable to move, you poke around a little, accuse several players while revealing yourself to be a hypocrite, and finally you attack me.

how am I hypocrite? I am actually doing something for the town.

I am starting a bandwagon on you now. I've quietly voiced my suspicions for a while now, letting you post more, watching you flail about trying to discover who is a weaker player not who is a scummier player.

You have been hungry for another bandwagon, I hope you appreciate the irony that it is on you.

This whole statement is ridiculous. Quietly voiced? You are joking right? You have tried to get this bandwagon started for some time now. I am not hungry for another bandwagon, I just want to lynch scum. I am trying to discover weaker players? Really, by your own account I have “attacked” Mole, Num, and yourself? I don’t define either of the 3 as weaker players, do you? I think J-man and Kate are scum, do you think they are less scummier than Mole, Num, and yourself? Then how am I looking for weaker players? I am trying to find scum.

Ok, again adel you have twisted my actions and thoughts somewhat. I wouldn’t say I attacked Num what as much as attacked his set up for a day 2 suspicion (either way you are scum logic).

I think Numenorean7 is town, at least his reasoning seems pro-town. I also understand why Numenorean7 is helping with the start of the wagon on me, because he thinks I am scum, and he can not peg down Dylan, who he also thinks is scum…so I have no hard feelings toward you Numenorean7, do what you go to.

But Adel you are wasting the town’s time, and that looks suspicious to me. Go ahead and start your bandwagon...I am interested to see who joins it.

I'm not particuarlly interested on re-opening the CKD front, but the highlighted section strikes me as oddly worded. He's ranting and raving on Adel, but giving Num a complete pass in a way that seems very much like Num was just scum distancing from CKD.

DISCLAIMER: This post is taken completely out of context from pages 19-30 where CKD eventually shakes off his wagon, it is not meant to be a cohesive argument, just an observation. (Plus, I wanted to be the first post on Page 30)

[curiouskarmadog]

I said this for two reasons:

1.)I was getting increasingly tired of Adel putting words in my mouth.. She stated I attacked Num, when indeed I had not.

2.)I also think it is important to express who you think is pro-town. So to tackle two birds with one stone, I wanted to explain to Adel that not only did I not attack Num, I felt he was pro-town. Which would then bode the question..”if you feel Num is protwon and he is going after you” what does that tell us? Well, that is why I continued on with the statement…

Does that shed any light? I am saddened that on the reread that this was the only thing you felt was worth mentioning. Surely out of 20+ pages you have found something better. Good luck with your reread.

[NabakovNabakov]

Fair enough. I'm making plenty of observations as I read, but most of the stuff I'm seeing, people have noted before, so it's more of a cumulative effect and my full opinions can be expressed at the end. I just thought that this was interesting and had gone unnoted to the best of my knowledge.

[Numenorean7]

GO US! 30 pages! Here's to 35!

I have been slightly uncomfortable with the Dylan lynch for a while. I wouldn't normally support lynching a VI, but with a deadline approaching, I thought he was the best candidate. Besides, an unvote would have put MoS into the noose, which I believe would have been a bad idea. I still think Dylan's behavior smacks of newbie scum, but it seems we should be able to do better than a VI lynch with 30 pages and counting. I'm currently looking for a better home for my vote. I'll try to manage a re-read.

Do you think it would be appropriate to ask in Mafia Discussion what the record is for the longest Mini Day 1? It's not exactly talking about a current game.

[NabakovNabakov]

Seems like a waste of a thread. Probably best to wait 'till the game is over. I checked the archives once over, and it seems like we're in the lead on minis, and if we're all verbose enough to do that, we could definitely manage to take longest mini period. (Communique isn't even over and still has more than 50 pages, so there's some stiff competition)

Re-read update: Fuck Page 19, but

FUCK

Page 20. I think I'm over the hump right now, but I'm not sure how good my judgement will be by 1 a.m. I might call it a night.

[Adel]

I've seen people asking in three or four different threads. Replacements List is the most recent place I remember seeing it.

[NabakovNabakov]

Re-read update: Halfway through Page 26, but I don't trust myself to process information properly at this point. Expect a comprehensive post sometime tomorrow when I have my wits about me.

G'night everybody.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Leaving tonight for Thespival, I'll be back Tuesday. Please vote Adel ^_^

[Mastermind of Sin]

Seems like a waste of a thread. Probably best to wait 'till the game is over. I checked the archives once over, and it seems like we're in the lead on minis, and if we're all verbose enough to do that, we could definitely manage to take longest mini period. (Communique isn't even over and still has more than 50 pages, so there's some stiff competition)

Re-read update: Fuck Page 19, but

FUCK

Page 20. I think I'm over the hump right now, but I'm not sure how good my judgement will be by 1 a.m. I might call it a night.

Communique was well into D2 by the time they hit 35 pages. They're deadlined on D3 at 50 pages, so if we keep up the pace, we'll be fine.

[molestargazer]

I have been slightly uncomfortable with the Dylan lynch for a while. I wouldn't normally support lynching a VI, but with a deadline approaching, I thought he was the best candidate. Besides, an unvote would have put MoS into the noose, which I believe would have been a bad idea. I still think Dylan's behavior smacks of newbie scum, but it seems we should be able to do better than a VI lynch with 30 pages and counting. I'm currently looking for a better home for my vote. I'll try to manage a re-read.

So this says you think he's scum, but you're looking for someone 'better' to vote for on the grounds that he might be a VI, thus landing you in it?

I really don't know what else to say right now.
Yay, Page 30.
Enjoy Thespival, MoS.

[curiouskarmadog]

I guess my only concern is that we have stopped posting content....AND I assume that it will start getting harder to find replacements if we need them....

I can see Per now...Need a replacement for HungryJoe..quick read, 30 pages..

[Mastermind of Sin]

Please vote Adel. I do not want to have to analyze another 60 of her posts to spell it out for you. You can do that work yourself.

[NabakovNabakov]

Re-read update: Finished!


A general outline on the impression most players gave me:

TOWN:

Adel: I'm sorry MoS, but Adel had numerous opportunities in-thread to facilitate a lynch and she (obviously) took none of them. After re-reading the thread and re-reading your accusations of her, I find myself totally unconvinced, and I'm not even sure what you're accusing her of. Following you around? Being on the Dylan bandwagon? Not talking to Num? Your PBPA pointed out inconsitencies and things that might seem moderately scummy in isolation, but I saw no overarching case saying "Adel is scum, this is her nefarious scum plan."

CKD: Just because he kinda zealotous and occasionally tinfoil-hat, doesn't mean he's part of the scum. I'd just like to make an appeal to him to tone down the conspiracy theories and look for genuine scumtells.

Num: He seems somewhat flakey, but I never really see him try to lead anybody. He's largely along for the ride, but will comment on things he sees as scummy. I find it difficult to imagine a scum who rarely tries to influence others, yet posts often and intelligently. The opinions of the town are always on the scum's mind.


NEUTRAL:

Pickem: Solid if brief analysis, general non-participation in the major bandwagons. If he's scum, he's not dangerous scum.

Kate: I guess I can jump on the "unpleasant" bandwagon. Could be an easily manipulated townie, could be a lazy scum. Not sure enough on either read to lay down a vote.

Mole: Willing to forgive the long bouts of absence, but that doesn't leave me with much of a read. Has so far restricted himself to commentary on parts of the game already gone past, refusal to look towards the future or actually participate in discussions might be a scumtell.

HungryJoe: Focus on Dylan seems odd, but in retrospect, not malicious. Up for replacement.

Dylan: Urgh

SCUMZ:

ThAdmiral: Focused almost entirely on the Dylan lynch, and seems convinced that his play is unreadable, yet is still willing to waste a lynch on him if he's town. The only player so far to question the length of the thread/ask for a deadline, he may be afraid of too many connections being drawn. I've never gotten the almost ubiquitious comments "oh yeah, ThAdmiral, he seems pro-town"

Crub/J-Man: J-Man was VI'sh, but in many ways, I found him scummy as well. He seemed eager to wagon, and his claim never sat right with me, neither did MoS's complete 180 on him. Crub hasn't done all that much to improve his position, most of his posting has been unhelpful, and he's showing the same wagoning tendancines as J-Man.

MoS: I'm agreeing with Adel on the rolefishing accusations (though I'm not quite as vehement)

It is helpful for someone to claim before they are lynched. At this point, I intend to lynch J-man, and his most recent posts have only convinced me further. Since he was only 2 votes away from lynch, I wanted him to claim. If he claim was believable, then we can leave him alive. It is better that we not lynch someone whose claim we believe is protown and make the scum have to kill them, rather than do the scum's work for them. I am not claiming that people should claim without pressure. That is not helpful. However, it is extremely unhelpful for the town for someone to refuse to claim when they are about to be lynched.

That post in particular sums things up. I think MoS has had too many inconsitencies in his play to be explained away by scum hunting. He bussed J-Man heavily then called it off. He attacked Pickem, but went buddy-buddy when it's obvious his case wouldn't stick. He claimed early on Adel was pro-town, but has now decided flip on that too. When MoS posts, there is always an air of calculation about as if he's trying to draw the town this way or that. His recent case against Adel seals the deal, because it seems he just plumb ran out of scummy players he would be able to wagon, and had to set up a less than plausible case.

Now that the deadline is removed, we're more free to apply pressure and whatnot so.

Vote: MoS

, and

FOS: ThAdmiral, Crub

(they probably aren't all scum together, they're just coming up as scummiest in my book).

[pickemgenius]

NEUTRAL:

Pickem: Solid if brief analysis, general non-participation in the major bandwagons. If he's scum, he's not dangerous scum.

pickemgenius: Terse, but pretty solid. Little to say, but doesn't need to say that much. kind of a low post count, and not too many words, but he does pop in now and again. I'm completely neutral here, but it's hard to say with so little of his arguments in evidence.

Yeah, sounds like me...

[NabakovNabakov]

^^ Oh yeah, I also forgot "self-centered bastard"

[Adel]

I think MoS has had too many inconsitencies in his play to be explained away by scum hunting. He bussed J-Man heavily then called it off. He attacked Pickem, but went buddy-buddy when it's obvious his case wouldn't stick. He claimed early on Adel was pro-town, but has now decided flip on that too. When MoS posts, there is always an air of calculation about as if he's trying to draw the town this way or that. His recent case against Adel seals the deal, because it seems he just plumb ran out of scummy players he would be able to wagon, and had to set up a less than plausible case.

Notice that his original case centered more on Num7, although I was named as his likely scum partner. Notice how quickly changed his vote to me after I started attacking him.

I really like MoS's last couple of posts telling/asking people to vote for me. sn't it similar to how he acted towards pickem earlier? He concludes that someone is scum, then basically says "you read the posts and see for yourself why it is obvious" instead of presenting his case in a manner that would stand a chance of actually convincing many other people. I think he wants to arouse enough suspicion to force a claim, but not yield a mislynch. Remember that he wanted to set the president of claiming at -2 to lynch... I didn't consider that a scumtell until later when I became convinced that he was scum chasing the power roles. Remember when he encouraged us to beat the record of mafia 64? I think that he seriously wants this day to drag on for as long as possible.

[Numenorean7]

I have been convinced.

Unvote
Vote: MoS

This might seem cowardly: hopping on the MoS wagon now that he's away, but his behavior as he left together with NabNab's analysis have put me firmly on the anti-MoS side. I am looking forward to his defense when he comes back. He is at L-2 now, correct?
MoS has been latching onto a player, and focusing on him with captain-Ahab-like obsession. That is, until he completely abandons the case and jumps onto the next one with all his might. Until recently, he had me convinced that he was an agressive scumhunter. Even after his weird case against me I still thought he could be OK, and ought to be saved until D2. But his smug "Please vote Adel" and "You can do that work yourself" was the straw that broke the camel's back. MoS is arguing his case through repitition, and using an implicit ad hominem attack on those not voting Adel. Taken together with his history of simlutaneous flip-flopping and excessive confidence... Blech. I've been looking to move my vote, and the more I think about it, the more I believe that it belongs right here on MoS.

Thank your for your analysis, NabNab. It's clear you've put a lot of time and effort into this. I personally would switch Dylan and J-man/Crub, but in general, I think you've stated things very well.

[curiouskarmadog]

NabNab, I cant say that I completely agree with you that Adel is town. I have demonstrated several times how she spreads mistruths and puts words in my mouth. I am not sure why a townie would do that. Not to mention, she has yet to defend herself with “cold logic” for my tastes….

I have had my own suspicions about MoS. Now I have read your post (and reread the thread for accuracy) trying to put away my “conspiracy theories” and I agree MoS does come across scummy (sans “theories”). So you have sold me….Mainly on the drastic flip-flopping and recent attitude.

Vote: MoS

My vote will put him at –1. I am actually more interested at seeing what will happen next…..

..because I still have my theories.

[curiouskarmadog]

thats

vote: Mos

[Per]

Vote Count (#21)

Mastermind of Sin: 6 (dylan41985, Adel, Crub, NabakovNabakov, Numenorean7, curiouskarmadog)
dylan41985: 2 (ThAdmiral, HungryJoe)
Adel: 1 (Mastermind of Sin)

Not voting: 3 (molestargazer, Kate, pickemgenius)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Tarhalindur replaces HungryJoe.

[NabakovNabakov]

Just to be safe and prevent and untoward hammer.

Unvote

. I think the guy's scum, but lynching him while he isn't even here to post a defense just doesn't seem right. Can somebody call Thesp's house and tell MoS to get online and post?

[Adel]

I'm glad you unvoted him: I really didn't want to.

[curiouskarmadog]

Alright, heading to vacation (tomorrow morning) and will not be back until the 22nd. I will have limited access at best. At any rate..

Unvote MoS

I wanted to see what happened before I left putting MoS at –1, wasn’t so much watching his response (he is not here anyway) but everyone else…nothing exciting happened. Rather not be away and have my vote out of my control in this thread. But again..

FoS Adel, Crub, and MoS

, but I think you guys already knew this.

[Tarhalindur]

I'm here. Need to reread.

[Numenorean7]

First of all,

thank you Tarhalindur

! (May we call you Tar?:)) We all really appreciate you replacing HJ.

My vote will put him at –1. I am actually more interested at seeing what will happen next…

Just to be safe and prevent and untoward hammer. Unvote.

Alright, heading to vacation (tomorrow morning) and will not be back until the 22nd. I will have limited access at best. At any rate.. Unvote MoS

That was interesting. I wonder if NabNab will put his vote back on now that ckd has unvoted?