433: Dry, bland, generic mafia: Game Over

[NanookTheWolf]

I'm still pretty stuck on MBL being scum ...

[pete d]

Can someone explain deadline rules to me please, or point me towards where they are?

4.) If a deadline passes without a player or No Lynch receiving a majority of the votes, the day will end with the person with the highest votes being lynched. If two players are tied are tied for the highest number, then the player who reached that number first will be lynched,

ie, whoever has the most votes at deadline is lynched; a normal majority (ie 7 votes) is not required.

[Dasquian]

Ta, that's what I thought - just wanted to be sure.

[inHimshallibe]

Dasquian, you don't think there are enough reactions to read through already?

[Dasquian]

Sure, but we're still denied the ones where you claim your role and scum get a chance to slip up when faking a townie-like reaction. Granted, it's created a completely different kind of discussion in which at least a few of us have been talking, which is a good thing, but they're much more about differing game philsophies than "who is prepared to lynch a claimed <x>".

[Thestatusquo]

Justr a reminder, the deadline comes whenever I check the thread tommorow. That is probably going to be around 1 oclock, but may be after or before by a little bit.

Happy fourth, guys.

(the no modtalk rule is lifted for the sole purpose of exchanging holiday greetings.)

[Thestatusquo]

And that's a lynch, folks. I will have the scene up some time later today.

[Thestatusquo]

Do you really expect flavor? Well do you? DO YOU!? Of course you don't, god dammit. There is no flavor here, and I

nhimshallibe, vanilla townie,

was about as flavorless as it gets. Maybe you should not have lynched him, guys.

It's too bad, he's dead anyway.

It is now night one, please get choices in pronto, deadline for choices is in 4 days. After 4 days, I will generate a random choice for you.

[Thestatusquo]

Thank you everyone for getting choices in quickly.

There were three kills last night.

The bodies are:

MBL, town doctor

Fonz, town watcher

and

IH, town gunsmith

Happy scum hunting.

[Off the Mark]

Gunsmith? What does a gunsmith do? Dang we lost a bunch of power roles, this sucks.

I do not get MBL's and inHim's behavior at all. I just cannot see how that was pro-town for inHim to refuse to claim vanilla and MBL claimed not-doc, a lie. Yeesh.

Well, at least we have a fresh start at scumhunting.

FOS: gorckat

for now, but I have to review now that we have info.

[Off the Mark]

Oh, and I'm guessing a vig killed MBL? Not sure on the others, although I could see the mafia thinking Fonz was a cop.

3 killing parties, so we probably have a serial killer.

[Dasquian]

4 town roles down by Day 2 is not a happy place to be. Unless we have two vigs (unlikely), I agree we probably have a SK.

Gunsmith, in my experience, is a cop variant which detects "owns gun" or "doesn't own gun", the former giving "false positives" on vigilantes and other unlucky gunsmith-specific-millers.

I need a reread in light of the death scene, but I'm tending to suspect Nanook, pie and others who really pushed hard for getting MBL to claim - the mafia knew that he wasn't one of them and, as I said at the time, probably really wanted to know for sure if he was the doc or not before killing him. In fact, as the pressure to get him to claim later turned to a push to just get him lynched, I suspect they had guessed and were trying to get the town to save them a night kill.

[Dasquian]

What's a "watcher", btw?

[gorckat]

The Gunsmith can check one customer each night, and finds out whether that player has a gun (Mafia, Cops, FBI Agents, Vigilantes, Army Veterans, etc).

With 3 down, that's gotta be either 2x Vig or SK, 1x Vig and 1x SK, or 2 scum groups with 1x Vig or 1x SK...yeesh. Lethal.

nanook: 1 (

mbl

)
inhim: 5 (Daquian,

IH

, gorckat, kilm, off the mark)
MBL: 3 (Pie, superstring, nanook)
Off the mark: 3 (

inhim

,

fonz

pete d)

I don't think any one moved or added votes between there (post 551, page 23) and the deadline). The kills are pretty well spread out. I added strikethroughs for the dead.

I see Das's reply in the preview, so here's watcher:

A somewhat common information role that can target a person at night and learn if that person targeted anybody the same night. In this regard it is generally less effective than a Tracker, who also learns who the person targeted.

I don't think the mafia would've hit MBL since a number of people (myself included) had said he'd be lynch worthy if he survived.

[Off the Mark]

I need a reread in light of the death scene, but I'm tending to suspect Nanook, pie and others who really pushed hard for getting MBL to claim - the mafia knew that he wasn't one of them and, as I said at the time, probably really wanted to know for sure if he was the doc or not before killing him. In fact, as the pressure to get him to claim later turned to a push to just get him lynched, I suspect they had guessed and were trying to get the town to save them a night kill.

This is a very simplistic view. I find that mafia try to set up little scenarios like this where things fit oh-so-neatly, when really the game is much more complex. Do you really think scum would be pushing MBL to claim? Because, in my opinion, scum try very hard not to stick out and do things that might be perceived as anti-town. I think those pushing MBL to claim are much more likely to be misguided townies. And this post by you, Dasquian, seems very much like a frame-up job to me.

vote: Dasquian

[IH]

Bah go

CPE

Town.

[Dasquian]

I think that towards the end of the day, two things happened:

1) The movement to get MBL to claim was intensified.
2) The movement to get MBL to claim morphed into a movement to just lynch him as the best chance of being scum.

This was someone who originally claimed doc! I thought he was pretty obviously off-limits for a

lynch

until the doc thing was resolved... so it seemed to me that the people going for a lynch were playing on the pressure of a deadline to press forward with what would have been a big mistake. I wouldn't have expected townies to take that risk so readily, while for a mafia who strongly suspected Dodgy was telling the truth in the first place, it made good sense.

Doubtless there were several misguided townies on the wagon, hence my need for a reread, but I refuse to believe there wasn't at least one or two scum hoping to get the town to lynch the doc in a panic. That's who I'm looking for. I disagreed with everyone who wanted to pressure MBL yesterday, today when we know he was the doc, I'm looking for something more.

That all said; if any one of the people prepared to lynch MBL on the spot were vig's, I can believe they would have offed him - I still would think that MBL was a prime target for mafia/SK, though, since getting the doc N1 is about as good a setup for the rest of the game as you can hope for.

[kilmenator]

with four players down in a mini, and some scums out there, and prolly an sk, I think a mass claim is a good idea at this point, I can go first if all are agreed.

[Off the Mark]

I've never been clear on the whole "benefits of a massclaim" idea... this is only my 4th game. Can someone break it down for me?

Won't mafia simply all claim townie? How does that help us?

[kilmenator]

I've never been clear on the whole "benefits of a massclaim" idea... this is only my 4th game. Can someone break it down for me?

Won't mafia simply all claim townie? How does that help us?

Sometimes the roles have something in common or some sort of flavor, or something that will help us know the claim is true, and usually scum, well not usually, but sometimes, scum will claim power role and take a chance, and then there could be a counter, with three deaths last night, we know we have killing scum, prolly vig, and prolly a sk. So it will narrow it down quite a bit.

[Pie_is_good]

Guys, we're massclaiming. It's settled.

Points in favor of massclaim: Lots of discussion has centered around claiming, which makes it all the more analyzable. Plus, judging from the sampling of Dead Bodies, this game is high on power roles. Both these are going to make it hard for scum to fake a claim.

OffTheMark - it's a roleclaim, not an alignment claim.

[Pie_is_good]

Oh, by the way:

I'm fine with kilmenator starting, then picking the next claimer.

Also, I have quite a bit to say about who I'm finding scummy, but I'm going to hold off until after the massclaim and I suggest you all do, too. The more of that information that gets out, the easier it is to fabricate a claim.

[Dasquian]

OffTheMark - it's a roleclaim, not an alignment claim.

I think he means, won't scum just claim vanilla townie, and where does that leave us?

I'm not averse to the idea of a mass role-claim - though it may not be our "last chance" to get a lynch right (depending on who gets NKed tonight), a bad lynch today followed by some more townie deaths is a convincing game over.

[Off the Mark]

OffTheMark - it's a roleclaim, not an alignment claim.

I think he means, won't scum just claim vanilla townie, and where does that leave us?

Yep, that's what I meant.

[Off the Mark]

Great, I deleted my PM, so if there was any flavor to it, my role claim is going to be lacking that. I think I remember what it said though.