New York 180 (Endgame)

[House]

That being said, my vote is still on vikingfan, because his posts have looked much worse than dragon's. I've got an FoS on dragon though.

I'm still trying to figure out why he's scummier than vikingfan.......................

Yeah, he isn't.

So looking at the votes:
Boon was the first to vote dragon
Pisskop sheeps Boon’s reason
Grib adds to vikingfan
Aero adds to dragon for the same reason as Boon and pisskop
Vikingfan jumps on dragon
Klingon places his vote for vikingfan (although the intent was clearly there already)
House jumps on, stating he is sheeping
Kitz jumps on vikingfan for disliking the way he addressed the dragon wagon (which has a nice ring to it
Nakedjogger jumps on dragon for being defensive

Giving us the following VC for those two (pretty sure):

vikingfan

: acryon, SilverWolf, dragonspawn, Grib, Klingon, House, Kitz [L-4]

Dragonspawn

: Boonskiies, Pisskop, Aeronaut, vikingfan, Nakedjogger [L-6]

The dragonspawn wagon certainly smells like a counterwagon to a scum wagon. If it is, I suspect Aeronaut the most on the counterwagon (and of course vikingfan). Came in third on the wagon only after it clearly had a little traction and just sheeped Boon's reasoning (which isn't bad in and of itself, but it's hard to tell if Aero had his own reasons).

I completely agree with this analysis. vikingfan's lynch would be most informative because if he flips scum, we can look at the votes on dragon's wagon like Aero and pisskop more closely. If he flips town, dragon would be a good D2 vote.

But would scum vote for their buddy to stay off a mislynch wagon?

I don't think so.

No, If vikingfan is scum, then dragon is more likely to be town with scum on his wagon. If he's town, then the votes on dragon are not as suspect.

Ah but my suspicions of the players on his wagon are independent of their votes.

[acryon]

No, If vikingfan is scum, then dragon is more likely to be town with scum on his wagon. If he's town, then the votes on dragon are not as suspect.

Agreed.

[SilverWolf]

(Psst: dragonspawn is certifiable lynchbain. Hence my reluctance to join his wagon despite my own interest in voting for him)

Atm viking looks more like lynchbait to me.

Which supports a D1 viking lynch.

If he flips scum, it will ease my mind considerably about dragonspawn, because scum simply chose an easy target to draw heat away from their buddy.

If he flips town, it will get rid of a distraction and allow us to look for the actual scum instead of argue throughout the game.

Barring a player posting, "Hai guyz, I iz scumlol", viking's lynch is the most useful.

Makes sense. Good points here as well.

[acryon]

Ah but my suspicions of the players on his wagon are independent of their votes.

Do you not have any issues with the manner in which some of them came on?

[SilverWolf]

That being said, my vote is still on vikingfan, because his posts have looked much worse than dragon's. I've got an FoS on dragon though.

I'm still trying to figure out why he's scummier than vikingfan.......................

Yeah, he isn't.

So looking at the votes:
Boon was the first to vote dragon
Pisskop sheeps Boon’s reason
Grib adds to vikingfan
Aero adds to dragon for the same reason as Boon and pisskop
Vikingfan jumps on dragon
Klingon places his vote for vikingfan (although the intent was clearly there already)
House jumps on, stating he is sheeping
Kitz jumps on vikingfan for disliking the way he addressed the dragon wagon (which has a nice ring to it
Nakedjogger jumps on dragon for being defensive

Giving us the following VC for those two (pretty sure):

vikingfan

: acryon, SilverWolf, dragonspawn, Grib, Klingon, House, Kitz [L-4]

Dragonspawn

: Boonskiies, Pisskop, Aeronaut, vikingfan, Nakedjogger [L-6]

The dragonspawn wagon certainly smells like a counterwagon to a scum wagon. If it is, I suspect Aeronaut the most on the counterwagon (and of course vikingfan). Came in third on the wagon only after it clearly had a little traction and just sheeped Boon's reasoning (which isn't bad in and of itself, but it's hard to tell if Aero had his own reasons).

I completely agree with this analysis. vikingfan's lynch would be most informative because if he flips scum, we can look at the votes on dragon's wagon like Aero and pisskop more closely. If he flips town, dragon would be a good D2 vote.

But would scum vote for their buddy to stay off a mislynch wagon?

I don't think so.

No, If vikingfan is scum, then dragon is more likely to be town with scum on his wagon. If he's town, then the votes on dragon are not as suspect.

Ah but my suspicions of the players on his wagon are independent of their votes.

Well, that's a separate issue altogether then.

[dragonspawn]

That being said, my vote is still on vikingfan, because his posts have looked much worse than dragon's. I've got an FoS on dragon though.

I'm still trying to figure out why he's scummier than vikingfan.......................

Yeah, he isn't.

So looking at the votes:
Boon was the first to vote dragon
Pisskop sheeps Boon’s reason
Grib adds to vikingfan
Aero adds to dragon for the same reason as Boon and pisskop
Vikingfan jumps on dragon
Klingon places his vote for vikingfan (although the intent was clearly there already)
House jumps on, stating he is sheeping
Kitz jumps on vikingfan for disliking the way he addressed the dragon wagon (which has a nice ring to it
Nakedjogger jumps on dragon for being defensive

Giving us the following VC for those two (pretty sure):

vikingfan

: acryon, SilverWolf, dragonspawn, Grib, Klingon, House, Kitz [L-4]

Dragonspawn

: Boonskiies, Pisskop, Aeronaut, vikingfan, Nakedjogger [L-6]

The dragonspawn wagon certainly smells like a counterwagon to a scum wagon. If it is, I suspect Aeronaut the most on the counterwagon (and of course vikingfan). Came in third on the wagon only after it clearly had a little traction and just sheeped Boon's reasoning (which isn't bad in and of itself, but it's hard to tell if Aero had his own reasons).

I completely agree with this analysis. vikingfan's lynch would be most informative because if he flips scum, we can look at the votes on dragon's wagon like Aero and pisskop more closely. If he flips town, dragon would be a good D2 vote.

But would scum vote for their buddy to stay off a mislynch wagon?

I don't think so.

No, If vikingfan is scum, then dragon is more likely to be town with scum on his wagon. If he's town, then the votes on dragon are not as suspect.

I tend to agree. If Viking is scum it's unlikely a counternwagon would start on another scum.

[dragonspawn]

Of course, I could just be the counter wagon because I annoy people

[House]

Ah but my suspicions of the players on his wagon are independent of their votes.

Do you not have any issues with the manner in which some of them came on?

You're missing my point, which is I have issues with them independent of their votes on dragon.

The way the slinked on their wagon is telling, but I'm not willing to write it off if viking flips town, because they're scum before those votes anyway.

[acryon]

Ah but my suspicions of the players on his wagon are independent of their votes.

Do you not have any issues with the manner in which some of them came on?

You're missing my point, which is I have issues with them independent of their votes on dragon.

The way the slinked on their wagon is telling, but I'm not willing to write it off if viking flips town, because they're scum before those votes anyway.

I was just seeing where you were at on that piece specifically. Makes sense.

[Boonskiies]

Of course, I could just be the counter wagon because I annoy people

[FakedBlogger]

(Psst: dragonspawn is certifiable lynchbain. Hence my reluctance to join his wagon despite my own interest in voting for him)

Atm viking looks more like lynchbait to me.

It makes him scum because he himself listed defensiveness as a possible scumtell. Along with that OMGUSy post we've got ourselves a good Day1 lynch.

where did I list defensiveness as a scum tell?

#398 At least that's how I read it in context.

And yet I haven't made a determination in either direction whether boon is scum or town so how can it be a scum tell in context?

Do you think defensiveness is a towntell?

[House]

(Psst: dragonspawn is certifiable lynchbain. Hence my reluctance to join his wagon despite my own interest in voting for him)

Atm viking looks more like lynchbait to me.

It makes him scum because he himself listed defensiveness as a possible scumtell. Along with that OMGUSy post we've got ourselves a good Day1 lynch.

where did I list defensiveness as a scum tell?

#398 At least that's how I read it in context.

And yet I haven't made a determination in either direction whether boon is scum or town so how can it be a scum tell in context?

Do you think defensiveness is a towntell?

Do you think you should have nailed down his stance on that

before

your vote?

[FakedBlogger]

(Psst: dragonspawn is certifiable lynchbain. Hence my reluctance to join his wagon despite my own interest in voting for him)

Atm viking looks more like lynchbait to me.

It makes him scum because he himself listed defensiveness as a possible scumtell. Along with that OMGUSy post we've got ourselves a good Day1 lynch.

where did I list defensiveness as a scum tell?

#398 At least that's how I read it in context.

And yet I haven't made a determination in either direction whether boon is scum or town so how can it be a scum tell in context?

Do you think defensiveness is a towntell?

Do you think you should have nailed down his stance on that

before

your vote?

Not at all. I'm being disingenuous with that question, in the sense that I'm not seeking information but rather showcasing how obviously unnecessary it is.

[dragonspawn]

(Psst: dragonspawn is certifiable lynchbain. Hence my reluctance to join his wagon despite my own interest in voting for him)

Atm viking looks more like lynchbait to me.

It makes him scum because he himself listed defensiveness as a possible scumtell. Along with that OMGUSy post we've got ourselves a good Day1 lynch.

where did I list defensiveness as a scum tell?

#398 At least that's how I read it in context.

And yet I haven't made a determination in either direction whether boon is scum or town so how can it be a scum tell in context?

Do you think defensiveness is a towntell?

The answer is it depends on the person. Need to look at a case by case basis.

[acryon]

@Mod: V/LA until Monday which I always do.

[Aeronaut]

@Cheetory: I'm not sure. I feel like I'd like a bit more out of him because his current lack of activity bothers me, and the way he consulted his wagon was pretty much exactly how I would handle it if I were scum. Someone of his townreads seemed very empty. I don't feel particularly satisfied by what I've received, especially since I know he's going to read me as town either way because I know that he knows it sates me.

The only other person I would consider switching to would be acryon, for his #401. It felt like mafia trying to egg on bad analysis, especially since he didn't really seem to follow it up with anything.

Wouldn't you also scumread boon for giving said bad analysis?

No?

:/ That doesn't make a lot of sense.

Could you like a game where that happened?

I think she's talking about offsite, we tend to lynch him early.

So is this common behavior for him, then?

I've never played with this guy before, but there's a few reasons I think he's worse than VikingFan right now. For one, look at this post:

I suppose that's possible, I found more meaning in the content of his post than the subject of it.

you are being way too friendly this game house.

fos

Looks like the Viking wagon id picking up. As he is one of my gut scum reads at the moment in going to jump on and see if more pressure will shake something free from him.

VOTE: viking

This is NOT a good jump. He joins the growing wagon because 1. "It's picking up", and 2. It just so happens to be one his gut-scumreads all of a sudden. That pings for me.

The thing that's more bothersome to me is him defending himself once his wagon forms; it simply sounds like someone trying

very hard

to be calm and collected, to keep making jokes under pressure, etc. It doesn't seem like a natural progression to me, just that he's inserting things all over to make him look less nervious. It's fabricated.

And, to be honest, I'm not exactly townreading Viking. However, I feel like some of the reasons being used on his wagon could be applied to a lot of players in the game. I'd be willing to look at him Day 2, though, and you can hold me to that if you like. I won't be voting him today, though.

I also have this slight paranoia about the first real wagon formed in a game this large; I feel like it's almost always scum motivated. That's more my own paranoia, though.

[T S O]

Catching up.

[Aeronaut]

I'm still trying to figure out why he's scummier than vikingfan.......................

Yeah, he isn't.

So looking at the votes:
Aero adds to dragon for the same reason as Boon and pisskop

Giving us the following VC for those two (pretty sure):

vikingfan

: acryon, SilverWolf, dragonspawn, Grib, Klingon, House, Kitz [L-4]

Dragonspawn

: Boonskiies, Pisskop, Aeronaut, vikingfan, Nakedjogger [L-6]

The dragonspawn wagon certainly smells like a counterwagon to a scum wagon. If it is, I suspect Aeronaut the most on the counterwagon (and of course vikingfan). Came in third on the wagon only after it clearly had a little traction and just sheeped Boon's reasoning (which isn't bad in and of itself, but it's hard to tell if Aero had his own reasons).

My reasoning was entirely different from Boon's, actually. It was about gut reads, but Boon was concerned with Dragon's post 393, While I was was concerned with Post 405, which came after Boon's original vote and posting. My reasoning was that the way he worded it; that he we was trying to pass Viking off as a gut read, but in the same sentence, was talking about how there's lots of other reasons to vote him. Why call it a gut read, then? It just looks like he's trying to give reasoning without giving reasoning, which is a huge scumtell in my opinion.

[SilverWolf]

Aero-One reason I'm not concerned about dragon's vikingfan vote is because he expressed suspicion of him here 252 so he didn't just suddenly suspect him only because of a growing wagon. He was suspicious of him before that. Also, posts like this are very typical of him 481. He tends to act like lynchbait in games. Does this mean for sure he isn't scum? No. But I'm not nearly as convinced of his scumminess as I am of vikingfan's. Every one of Vikingfan's posts pings scum to me. I can't ignore that.

[Aeronaut]

Every one of Vikingfan's posts pings scum to me.

There's five.

I'll agree, post 416 is p bad.
349 Is not good, but it's something that at least five other people have said a variation of.
422, Dragon said almost the exact same sentence a few posts after that.

Etc. The arguments on this wagon are weak AF.

Spoiler:

Instead, Join the...

[Aeronaut]

I will take into account that he expressed suspicion of him before that post; I missed that entirely.

I hold true on the rest, though.

[SilverWolf]

Every one of Vikingfan's posts pings scum to me.

There's five.

I'll agree, post 416 is p bad.
349 Is not good, but it's something that at least five other people have said a variation of.
422, Dragon said almost the exact same sentence a few posts after that.

Etc. The arguments on this wagon are weak AF.

Spoiler:

Instead, Join the...

I voted before 422 so that one isn't included but 416 was the reason I cast my vote for him. It's scummy as fuck and so is 349 because like I've said before it's filler to look like he's saying something, while saying nothing. You also forgot 88 and 23. One of them hops on the most popular wagons with weak excuses-like you are going after dragon for. The other was a scummy RVS vote.

So yeah, I'm happy with vikingfan over dragon right now.

[vikingfan]

Ahh, holiday weekend with a 3-day weekend, I will have much more time to post and respond this weekend. I'll start here:

Since I've never played with anyone in this game, I'm going to post some completed games from the old days so people can get an idea of my playstyle, both town and mafia.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=3867 Mafia 54 (town in this one)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=3475 (mafia in this one)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1650 (town in this one)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=275 (town in this one)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1696 (mafia in this one)

If you need other games, just let me know, there are several others.

I have absolute no idea what House is referring to when he votes for me and says 'sheeping my horse' so I'll ignore that.

Was rereading your posts and a few others and something about this one stood out. I've bolded the portion. You're claiming people are bussing you. You can only be bussed if you are scum. And you can only be bussed by fellow scum.

You also claimed no one was bussing grib. Same problem. Care to explain?

Maybe the better term would be wagoning but it's basically the same terminology to me as bandwagoning. My point that I was making was that people immediately said it was scummy that I would be back soon but other people have done the same (Grib was one example). And I came back as promised. If you're going to lynch me for that, better lynch about half the people in this game. Or would you rather I have posted nothing at all and just posted at the appropriate time. People post these things so that the mod (and players) know where they're at postingwise.

And nope I did not scumclaim in the least. I am not lynchbait. I look at it the opposite of acryon, though I think it possible that there are two town players scum are trying to go after. I'm looking to do a more in-depth reading of other players later this weekend.

[vikingfan]

Silver I have zero idea what RVS means. care to explain?

[SilverWolf]

Silver I have zero idea what RVS means. care to explain?

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