Mafia 60: Face-to-Face - Game over!

[Mgm]

Vote counts for analysis

(Known scum bolded, currently alive players underlined)
----
End of Day 1 Vote Count

AndrewS: 8 (Thesp

ChannelDelibird

spectrumvoid

Mgm

CES

Fritzler IH

Glork

)
IH: 4 (Ether

Patrick

AndrewS Zindaras)
Mgm: 1 (

MrBuddyLee

)
spectrumvoid: 1 (Adele)
Ether: 1 (Nightfall)
Nightfall: 1 (Ether)

----
End of Day 2 Vote Count (no one lynched)

Thesp: 6 (

ChannelDelibird Cogito Ergo Sum

Adele

Mgm

Glork

Zindaras)
Ether: 3 (

MrBuddyLee

Nightfall Thesp)
Mgm: 1 (

Patrick

)
Adele: 1 (Fritzler)
Nightfall : 1 (Ether)

Not voting: Mr Stoofer

----
End of Day 3 Vote Count

ChannelDelibird: 6 (Thesp Fritzler

MrBuddyLee

Glork

Patrick

CES

)
Thesp: 2 (

ChannelDelibird

Mgm

)
Cogito Ergo Sum: 1 (Nightfall)


Not voting: Ether Zindaras

----
End of Day 4 Vote Count

Battle Mage: 5 (

CES

Glork

Thesp

Patrick

Battle Mage)
MrBuddyLee: 2 (

Mgm

CrashTextDummie)

Not voting:

MBL

----
End of Day 5 Vote Count

Cogito Ergo Sum: 3 (Thesp

MBL

Patrick

Mgm

)
MrBuddyLee: 1 (

CES

)

Not voting:

Glork

----

[Mgm]

Of interest:
Apart from the last day when my vote cut him off, Glork was on the leading wagon in each of the days' end of day vote count which could indicate he was going with the masses regardless of the outcome.

MBL and Patrick could've lynched an innocent Thesp day two, but didn't, again leaving Glork suspect.

MBL was early on both scum lynches, providing the tipping point vote on CDB and didn't lynch the townies with the leading bandwagon on the other days.

[Glork]

If you really think that MBL was the tipping point against CDB, I'd suggest that you go back and re-read that lynch. Thesp, Fritz, and I formed the voting bloc against CDB. The day-end vote count reflects me voting "after" MBL only because I removed my vote so that I could finish my lengthy analysis from Day Three (as indicated here).

In fact...Mgm, I would suggest that you read that entire page, as well as the preceeding and following pages. What do you think of MBL's attempt to link me to CDB by claiming that my unvote was because Lynch-1 was "too close for comfort"?

I will also point out that the reason Thesp was killed is probably not only because he was confirmed innocent, but because like Patrick, he's been so sure that I'm town that MBL wouldn't have stood a chance of surviving today. MBL had to kill Thesp because he figured you'd fall in line with him, and he'd have to convince Patrick to turn on me.

Finally, I maintain that Fritz's complete and utter willingness to follow me on Day Three (first to Ether, and then to...

CHANNEL DELIBIRD

) is a very, very, VERY storng sign that

HE INVSTIGATED ME ON NIGHT TWO

.



I'll respond more later today or possibly tomorrow. I've got an interview to prepare for.

[Mgm]

I meant "tipping point" as in point at which the votes became a steaming bandwagon.

I will also point out that the reason Thesp was killed is probably not only because he was confirmed innocent, but because like Patrick, he's been so sure that I'm town that MBL wouldn't have stood a chance of surviving today. MBL had to kill Thesp because he figured you'd fall in line with him, and he'd have to convince Patrick to turn on me.

With me convinced of his guilt yesterday (in fact tying him as a possible scum mate to CES) and me thinking you were innocent yesterday, I can't see how MBL could've possibly predicted I would change my opinions as radically as I did. If I didn't do the analysis I did, leaving me alive wouldn't make his chances better at all (after all I believed he was guilty, considered Glork innocent - just like Thesp). If I were the MBL and he was the final scumbucket, I would've killed me for revenge (for lynching CES).

As for Thesp dying: I noticed how several people were willing to pair MBL with CES yesterday, so if Thesp didn't, that would make for a perfect reason to kill him. -- Hmmm, that needs checking.

I need to reread the whole "Fritzler investigated Thesp" thing again, because I forgot how likely it was. In any case, Fritzler didn't flat out say "I investigated Thesp and found him innocent", so confirmed is not the correct term - likely or very likely okay, but not confirmed. (Where was that XXXXXX link someone posted earlier about it?).

[Glork]

If I were the MBL and he was the final scumbucket, I would've killed me for revenge (for lynching CES).

I disagree entirely. No offense to you, but Thesp's behavior has been much more accurate as far as scumhunting goes. He zeroed in on CDB during Day One and didn't relent until CDB was dead. He also homed in on CES in a similar fashion and other than the Nightfall/BM lynch, pushed hard for a CES lynch the entire time. His instincts have just been much better, and I think that the last scumbag -- whomever that might have been -- recognized this. From MBLscum's perspective, you would probably be much easier to convince to switch to me than Thesp.



I also still disagree with your "who was the driving force behind CDB's lynch." If I had not moved to CDB and taken Fritz with me, the game situation would have been "oh look, Thesp is still clinging to a CDB-lynch while everyone else is looking everywhere else." With Glork moving to CDB and taking Fritz with him, there was suddenly this bloc of three voters. That forced other players to actually take a long, hard look at CDB's behavior, and I think that it provoked MBL to toss his lurker scumbuddy under the bus.

The fact that Glork/MBL/Patrick (and CES) were on CDB's lynch tells us one obvious thing: CDB was useless and was an easy bus by the end of the day. Unless you believe that I decided to bus him out of

nowhere

instead of

JUST SHUTTING UP, POINTING ELSEWHERE, AND KILLING FRITZ OVERNIGHT

, then there's very little reason to believe that I'm scum based on my behavior towards CDB.

[Patrick]

Oh my. MBL or Glork. And we are lucky that CES was the godfather, if he'd been the goon, we'd probably have been going after Mgm today, who we now know is innocent. The computer at home has been taken away so I'm posting from the public library, so I don't have much time. Hopefully comp will be back this evening, but if not, this is the heads up.

He also states in post 1762: "Actually, Thespscum means that Glork has to be town, and I have to be town, due to the lack of quicklynch." That sounds like he didn't quicklynch on purpose to look more innocent (but it depends on the then available wagons)

Eh? That's not an attempt to look more innocent, that was basic correction of CES on a mistake of logic. You cannot be serious.

I've seen Glork as town for most of the game. Certainly it's clear that he was a big tipping point against CDB, whereas MBL arrived later when CDB was in big trouble anyway. As soon as stable access returns I'll read over yesterday's events again.

[Mgm]

If CDB was as useless as Glork says pushing along his wagon doesn't do much to determine his alignment. Scum would have no problem with bussing him (which the end of day vote count clearly shows).

If Thesp was killed because of his accuracy, he must've given the scum some indication he was onto the final one of them. I'm gonna take a look at his posts. I think, rather than killing Thesp for his accuracy, they left me alive for lack of it.

[Glork]

My grievance, Mgm, is that you asserted that MBL's "tipping the scales" is a pro-town sign. I argue that I "tipped the scales" to the point where busing him became an easy decision. I suppose I just don't see how you're considering MBL's play a pro-town sign when I think that I'm the one who actually made a difference in determining the Day Three lynch.

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

Not voting: Glork Mgm MrBuddyLee Patrick

4 alive means

3

to lynch!

[Patrick]

I looked back over Fritzler's posts. It's interesting, their might just be something in this idea that he investigated Glork as innocent. Day 2 he's basically attacking anyone who goes near Thesp. Included FoSing Glork. Asks Thesp who the play is and makes a point of saying that he was not asking Glork. Day 3, he then asks Glork who he wants to lynch. Tangible difference.

Thinking about it, I think if he had a guilty on CDB he'd have voted him earlier or hinted in some way. If he had a guilty on someone else, he'd surely have claimed after CDB fakeclaimed, to net us two scumbags. I could easily see him investigating Glork, since on day 2 Glork had been going after 1) The guy Fritz had innocent 2) The guy Adele had innocent and 3) Adele herself. I think the only other person to really fit that bill was me, but I at least didn't hammer Thesp. I really wish Fritz had said a bit more now.

[Mgm]

Hmmm, that would be a fair point. I'll go and read that when I have the time.
Let's for a moment assume Glork is indeed innocent, then you obviously want to see MBL lynched instead of yourself. Why are you less suspicious than him and why the heck didn't you agree with me yesterday?

[Patrick]

Because yesterday I was more suspicious of CES than MBL and thought you were his most likely scumbuddy. The situation is fairly dramatically different today.

[Mgm]

What about the first question. If Glork is likely innocent, I need to pick between you and MBL today...

[Mr Stoofer]

:arrow:

I'll be away from Saturday 7th July to Sunday 15th July inclusive - returning on Monday 16th July.

But don't worry, I am sure you will all be OK while I am away.

[Patrick]

What about the first question. If Glork is likely innocent, I need to pick between you and MBL today...

I'm not ready to go all out against MBL, as I'm not sure enough that he's scum and Glork's town. I'm just leaning in that direction. It would be nice to hear from MBL.

[Mgm]

Instead of convincing me of Glork's or MBL's guilt is there anything you want to say to profess your own presumed innocence?

[Patrick]

Not right at this moment. Probably will later. I'll answer specific queries of course. Of the ones you brought up in post 1924 I answered the second one, as to the first I can't deny nudging MBL onto the Zindaras wagon and away from the CES wagon, as I was more suspicious of Zindaras. I didn't find CES especially protown but most of the stuff said against him seemed like something anyone could say against him in any game (in previous games he played that same way and was town). Of all the people I actually thought Thesp made the best case against him.

[MrBuddyLee]

Glork seems to lay out a three-pronged case against me:

1) Glork was investigated by Fritz
2) Glork was the tipping point on CDB, MBL took the easy bus
3) Thesp was killed because he was the biggest threat to MBL today

My initial take on this, as town, is that if Glork is town, then Patrick is scum and Glork seems to be zeroing in on me as the scumbag which isn't thorough scumhunting. However, I'm tempted to do the same as Patrick hasn't given me nearly the scum vibes Glork has this game, so I can't fault Glork for that reason. If Patrick is scum I don't know what we could do to unravel the magnificent cover job he's thrown up over five days of this game.

I don't know what to say about (1). Glork would be the most likely investigation by Fritz, but there's no overt sign that Fritz got a result. If I had to decide between two equally scummy people I might let that thin possibility sway me, but more likely I'd find something else to break the tie.

To (2), I don't have an argument about the lynch itself--I didn't see CDB as scum. The time I was cop and caught CDB as scum, he was transparently manipulative and oily--in contrast he just looked lazy this game. Glork made a RADICAL leap and I couldn't attribute it to anything other than he was the cop. I read his posts several times to see if there was anything else he could be getting at, or to see if he was being typical early-game reckless Glork, or reckless scum Glork. It felt different, I assumed he was the cop, and as I've explained I took action to cover for him. I can guarantee you that if I was your final scumbag and Glork was town, I would have killed Glork after the CDB lynch. Whoever killed Fritz as cop was far better at reading Fritz than me, and I would posit that person is much more likely to be Glork than Patrick.

As for (3), it looks like a pretty solid WIFOM job on me by scum. I think scum had to choose between killing one of the two confirmed innocents last night, and killing Thesp was killing the more acclaimed scumhunter. Thesp found me scummy, but less so than Mgm found me scummy. I think Thesp and Mgm both had a scumlist MBL->Glork->Patrick, but Mgm's was firmer. When I realized Mgm wasn't scum end of day yesterday, I thought he'd be left alive instead of Thesp, considering he's been voting me exclusively for about three months straight, holding to his reason like a pit bull with zero sign of letting go--heck, it took an act of god to get him to vote the exquisitely scummy CES. As I think the logic through now, I'm pretty sure I'd have killed Mgm if I was scum, and therefore Glork's (3) is dissonant.

I've been out of town on July 4th holiday but I'll have some pointed questions for Glork when I return tonight or tomorrow. I've played a common-sense game and though I mistook scumCDB for lazy town CDB, I think I was on to CES all game and I smelled something funny about Glork in the way he attacked me after the CDB lynch. I didn't foment bad lynches--Andrew, Adele--and I didn't hammer Thesp because I wasn't confident enough in his alignment to kill off a very good player. I'm not the last scum, and if you're really interested in ascertaining my alignment you should read my play start to finish and see if you can discern sincerity and pro-town play or not. I think scum would be more likely to pick a perceived weak point or two of the weakest player right now and hammer on it politically, and I'm starting to see that behavior from Glork already.

Glork, if you're town, Patrick is snowing us. How likely is that possibility? I must admit, I'm WAY more likely to push for your lynch today.

Also, Glork, your certainty on Zindaras still bothers me--please point out what posts of his made you confident enough to state flatly he wasn't scum.

[Glork]

Alright, a handful of thoughts regarding MBL.

First, this post interests me. In spite of the fact that MBL declined to hammer Thesp, and Fritz likely ended up with an N1 investigation on Thesp, MBL chooses to run a lengthy analysis on Thesp in which he posits possible scumpairings of Thesp/CDB, Thesp/Glork, posits that Thesp may have been hunting for an investigation (while in the meantime CES's antics were very likely looking to draw investigation).

He ultimately decides that he thinks Thesp is pro-town, yet he intentionally leaves himself every out to go after Thesp later. What is further troubling is that while he feels that Thesp has been scummy, his two stated reasons for believing Thesp to be pro-town (Thesp's attack on CDB seeming genuine; Fritz innocent result on Thesp)

could not have been reasons for not-hammering-Thesp until after the lynch and nightkill

. Based on the vast majority of MBL's analysis of Thesp, he should have had *EVERY* reason to lay down the hammer and justify it later on.

MBL: Why, exactly, did you choose not to hammer Thesp at the end of Day Two?

MBL's defense of "I'm more likely to be innocent because I was off of townie wagons/lynches like Andrew and Adele" is interesting. I decided to compare his behavior in the early stages of this game with his behavior in NY54, one of Kelly's open-setup games, in which MBL was a member of the Mafia. I present to you the Day-End Vote Counts of Days 1-3:

Final Day 1 Vote Count

12 - Twomz (Glork, ChannelDelibird, Mastermind of Sin, ShadowLurker, Thoth, three word name, armlx, Vaughn, klebian, BabyJesus, Yosarian2, Rosso Carne)
4 - ChannelDelibird (Thok, Machiavellian-Mafia, vikingfan, Cogito Ergo Sum)
3 - three word name (ubertimmy, HezLucky, kirbyphreak)
1 - Mastermind of Sin (Twomz)
1 - Yosarian2 (MrBuddyLee)

not voting: creampuffeater

With 22 alive it is 12 to lynch!


And so was Twomz lynched. Sadly, for him and all Egypt to boot, he was a Townie.

Twomz - Townie - Lynched day 1

Final Day 2 Vote Count

10 - Vaughn (Machiavellian-Mafia, armlx, kirbyphreak, Rosso Carne, ShadowLurker, vikingfan, MrBuddyLee, ChannelDelibird, Cogito Ergo Sum, BabyJesus)
2 - klebian (Yosarian2, Thoth)
1 - vikingfan (HezLucky)

not voting: Thok, klebian, ubertimmy, creampuffeater, Vaughn

With 18 alive it is 10 to lynch!



And behold, Vaughn is strung up. A can of spray paint and some fireworks fall from his cloaks. This intruder cannot be of our time, but from the future!

Vaughn - Mafia - Lynched day 2

Final Day 3 Vote Count

8 - ChannelDelibird (Machiavellian-Mafia, ubertimmy, Thok, kirbyphreak, vikingfan, Cogito Ergo Sum, ShadowLurker, armlx)
1 - armlx (HezLucky)
1 - Cogito Ergo Sum (Yosarian2)
1 - creampuffeater (ChannelDelibird)

not voting: MrBuddyLee, Rosso Carne, creampuffeater

With 14 alive it's 8 to lynch!


You string up your good buddy ChannelDelibird. Sadly it is for naught.

ChannelDelibird - Townie - Lynched day 3

Note that on the two townie lynches, MBL was either doing his own thing or not voting at all. Compare to the early end-of-days of this game -- pretty much the exact same behavior. One manner in which I believe MBLscum tries to keep suspicion off of him is by simply staying away from the chic mislynch of the day.

Now, a very, *VERY* interesting note about the Day Two lynch on his scumbuddy Vaughn. I encourage both Patrick and MGM to read starting from Kelly's 19th Vote Count to the end-of-day vote count (which is not even 2 pages' worth of reading). Klebian (a Werewolf in the game) is the leading wagon, but when Vaughn's play gets him in trouble, MBL's jump onto Vaughn occurs without any real reasoning, after it becomes apparent that the leading lynch/wagon will likely be Vaughn instead of Klebian. I'd like you to compare this to the happenings against CDB in *this* game, where all MBL said of CDB was that he was wary of the wagon, until he realized that CDB was screwed and then decided to try to take a leading role in getting CDB lynched.

I also remember MBL's behavior being very similar in Himalayan -- he consistently went after CES while most of the mislynches occurred without him actively supporting them. I think that's about how he managed to win that game.

I think that while MBL is trying to use "I stayed away from the bad lynches" as a defense, it serves to provide no such comfort, as

MBL's tendency as scum is to shy away from a big mislynch, and to join a wagon on scum as soon as possible once the scales have been tipped.

Regarding your question about how I thought Zindaras was scum: See this post. It contains links and quotes from the two posts in which I explain myself. If you have further specific questions, ask away. But don't waste my time asking questions which I have already answered for you.

Regarding the Thespkill: In the end, note that I decided that Thesp was likely killed simply because he's a good scumfinder. He pushed CDB until CDB died. Then he pushed CES until CES died, minus his Nightfall/BM vote after my mistaken "misdirection" tell. That is *not* to be one of my chief points against MBL.

[Zindaras]

Hi. I don't think Stoofer told you, but I'm backing up while Stoofy is gone. I'll be doing vote counts and I'll close the thread if you lynch someone.

[Patrick]

I read those couple of pages of Moses in Egypt, then skimmed the rest of the game. It's a reasonable point to bring up I guess. I usually tend to have a better voting record on paper when I'm scum. I'm interested in MBL's replies especially about his stance on Thesp.

MBL, also, just to revisit a question Ether asked you:

If he comes up scum and I'm dead, look into Nightfall, CES, Zindy and eventually MgM later in the game.

Why these people, who you didn't mention again and include Nightfall, specifically?

This post was meant to be longer btw. I started looking at interactions of Glork and MBL with known scum, but I always start too late, and I know when I'm getting too tired/lazy to finish it properly. I'll get that up tomorrow.

[MrBuddyLee]

If he comes up scum and I'm dead, look into Nightfall, CES, Zindy and eventually MgM later in the game.

Why these people, who you didn't mention again and include Nightfall, specifically?

Best I can reconstruct:

Mgm for his train of thought that was along the lines of:

I don't remember anyone posting a reason and that's the very reason I don't like the CDB wagon.

Felt like he was waiting for other people to do the work instead of determining for himself if CDB was scummy--not demonstrating curiosity at all.

Zindaras I found scummy all along, and he consistently found CDB town with no explanation.

Nightfall for completely ignoring the CDB discussion, looked avoidant.

CES because he was obsessed with the guy who'd been hammering CDB for days, and if Thesp was likely town, that gave possible insight into CES's alignment.

Glork, Thesp, Fritz, and to a lesser extent Patrick and Ether seemed more good-guy due to their recent activity re: CDB.

[MrBuddyLee]

I decided to compare his behavior in the early stages of this game with his behavior in one of Kelly's open-setup games, in which MBL was a member of the Mafia.

Note that on the two townie lynches, MBL was either doing his own thing or not voting at all. Compare to the early end-of-days of this game -- pretty much the exact same behavior. One manner in which I believe MBLscum tries to keep suspicion off of him is by simply staying away from the chic mislynch of the day.

I also remember MBL's behavior being very similar in Himalayan -- he consistently went after CES while most of the mislynches occurred without him actively supporting them. I think that's about how he managed to win that game.

I think that while MBL is trying to use "I stayed away from the bad lynches" as a defense, it serves to provide no such comfort, as

MBL's tendency as scum is to shy away from a big mislynch, and to join a wagon on scum as soon as possible once the scales have been tipped.

I read this and the first thing that crossed my mind was, "Glork should know better, this is how I play as scum AND town." I'm not impressed with the piecemeal manufacturing of evidence, or that your first assumption when I'm playing pretty well is that it's devious bullshit.

Glork picked one game out, well, here are the other two I played in NY--as town:

SpeedyKQ's Big NY (I am vanilla)

M-M, doctor (not on)
Twito, townie (not on)
vikingfan, goon (ON)
Fortify, goon (ON)
armlx, townie (not on)

Big 5-0 (I am doc)

Nightfall, goon (not on)

greyjoy, townie (ON, but he was quicklynched retardedly)

twito, townie (ON)

armlx, townie (not on)

max, townie (ON)

This game (I am vanilla)

Andrew, townie (not on)
Thesp, townie (not on)
CDB, scum (ON)

Nightfall, townie (not on but would have been eventually I think)

CES, scum (ON)

This is how I play. I'm cautious, and I don't like to be on lynches I don't feel good about. I think if you check all of my games you'll find it VERY rare that I'm on the lynch of an innocent who's a good player. In the above games I helped lynch Twito and Max as town... hardly crimes.

And that's basically why I didn't hammer Thesp, he's a very good player and I wouldn't lynch him if I wasn't pretty sure about his alignment. Nothing worse than having a good scumhunting member of your team go down due to careless votes.

Glork, have you done a meta on Patrick as well or only on the easier lynch?

As for your stance on Zindy, I suppose you addressed my questions halfway before but I still don't understand how you could say

"He isn't scum."

before he was lynched, considering how little we had to go on, and now say you weren't certain about his alignment. I see those kinds of reckless, bold, often inaccurate statements from you D1, maybe D2 as town but not much deeper into the game.

[MrBuddyLee]

MBL's tendency as scum is to shy away from a big mislynch, and to join a wagon on scum as soon as possible once the scales have been tipped.

Yeah, I knew I smelled horseshit--you just cooked up a

completely

false meta on me. As I demonstrated in my last post, as

town

I shy away from big mislynches, and as scum:

NY:
Himalayan
Mr. Flay, scum (not on)

Werewolves
Vaughn, scum (ON)
Mariyta, scum (not on)

I was

NOT

likely to wagon my partners.

Glork, I expect town to make mistaken cases against me fairly and proportionally, and I expect scum to press bogus cases on me by twisting and omitting facts. You are by and large doing the latter. I'm basically going to side with the one of you who's made sincere attempts to find scum throughout this game, and the one who's made the least odd-smelling remarks, and if you're town and cooking bogus cases against me, you'll be the one responsible if we lose.

Right now, your claim to fame is that you spotted Fritz-cop, followed him valiantly onto the CDB-wagon and then Fritz died overnight. You've hung your hat on it, which I don't see town doing because it's not an impressive show in and of itself. That defense reeks of desperation. That alone--weighed against your bizarre situational attitudes towards several players, has you smelling more like skunk than rose.

mFOS: Glork

[MrBuddyLee]

recollections--
Patrick was mostly on IH D1 from what I recall, took some pokes at Mgm and essentially drove the IH vig. D2 he sparred with Thesp I think and voted Mgm and maybe Glork, chose not to hammer Thesp. D3 was on Zindy I think and was initially suspect of Thesp's case and then listened earnestly to the CDB debate, eventually changing his mind on him. D4 Patrick pressed Zindy hard, then eventually agreed to the BM/Nightfall lynch. D5, Patrick found Mgm and CES scummiest, followed by MBL, and was 3rd to vote CES. Today, Patrick is asking me questions and not Glork, who he's found pro-town since D3.

Glork goofed around D1, fueled wagons on Andrew and sv til she claimed, may have hammered Andrew. D2 pressed Mgm, chastised Thesp for a shitty D1, called Patrick useless, saw eye-to-eye with me at one point. Pressed Mgm-Adele and voted Adele til she claimed. Ended up on Thesp. D3 did two huge analysis posts, spotted Fritz-cop, switched from I believe Zindy to CDB. D4 started out on Zindy then bizarrely made his way to finding Zindy town and me and Nightfall scum despite no posts from Zindy. After the modkill, attacked me and then switched to Nightfall/BM. D5 poked at Mgm-CES-MBL. Today is laser-focused on me and his arguments are not particularly honest.

opinions on GvP before they died--
AndrewS-nothing.
IH-said if he was a vig, Glork was on his short list
Zindy-found Glork sketchy and didn't remark on Patrick, who was hounding him.
Adele-found both Patrick and Glork scummy.
Fritz-nothing.
Nightfall/BM-Found Glork scummy.
Ether/CTD-nothing
Thesp-nothing

optional nks--
Ether/CTD NKed instead of Patrick N4--no one found Patrick suspicious, so why didn't he die instead of CTD? Both found Glork pro-town.

Thesp NKed instead of Mgm N5--Mgm found Patrick more suspect than Glork, Thesp found Patrick thoroughly pro-town.

pushes--
"I do have another theory, which involves MBL and Andrew as scumbuddies"
"MBL and Nightfall. Hmm. I have vaguely considered it, I remember MBL defending Nightfall quite alot against Ether's attacks"

Glork:
"Guarantee you right now that one of MBL/Zindaras is scum."
"I really get the feeling that MBL knew CDB was screwed, likely because of a Cop investigation, so he decided to look like one of the guys taking CDB down, and then he became responsible for the nightkill of Fritz."
"Actually, yeah, MBL/Nightfall is looking really good right now."

"I'm willing to put MBL off until we learn Nightfall's alignment."
--why, what would nightfall town vs nightfall scum have implied differently about me?

"I honsestly get the feeling that MBL is intentionally playing both sides of the BM-coin so that he can decide whether he needs to bus BM or whether he can slide suspicion away from him at some point"

associations pre-reveal--
Patrick
"I think it's possible that CDB is just being used as the scum patsy here"
"Your case against CDB is reaching"
"I could see Zindaras/CDB together, and out of the two I'd prefer to kill Zindaras"
"I'm not really feeling the CES wagon."
"CES-I admit I'm partially relying on others who know him better. Not sure how he might play as scum"
"CES: Meh. I dunno"
"I think there are better places to look than CES at this point, like Zindaras"
"I'm not sold on CES being town, but still don't like the wagon on him, as it felt almost too easy to be true."
"I could see Nightfall/MBL as scum jumping on CES"
"MBL, it's strange that you are voting CES and not Zindaras, since Zindaras seems to be your top suspect percentage wise."
"My gut says Mgm is trying to ease his way onto busing CES after a whole game of defending him"


Glork to CES: "I feel that you're in a very similar category with CDB"
"I could actually see Thesp+CDB as a scumgroup right now."
"I see a potential MGM-CES link, Thesp+CDB link"
"Thesp still seems to think that CDB is Andrew's scumbuddy. He still hasn't named a single reason for it"
"Patrick takes a brief look at CDB, calling his efforts underwhelming."
"I could dig CDB-Zindaras-Ether right now. Maybe Nightfall instead of Ether."
"Glork also notes that Patrick, Zindaras, and Nightfall are being lazy/lurky... (Interesting that CDB called two of these three pro-town, eh?)"
"Zindie commits one of my favorite scumtells in 641, protecting CDB"
"I am loving a Zindie+CDB pairing"
"he may get knocked down a notch

when

CDB turns up scum"

"I could definitely see CES+Thesp in cahoots together. I'm sensing some kind of interaction between them"
"Possible MGM-CES connection has been logged and noted (yes, despite MGM having an innocent investigation on him)"
"There have been an awful lot of Zindie-CES interactions."
"I don't trust you, CES"
"I just thought of something and suddenly have very cold feet about CES."
"CES, my meta is telling me that even though I think you're a complete idiot, I'm no longer completely convinced that you're still scum"
"the kind of stubbornness I'm seeing in CES is a pro-town tell"
"it's not CES who is the dirty scumbag jumping aboard to bus his scumbuddy, but MBL"
"His tactic is obvious: Push a mislynch against CES, push a mislynch against Ether, then go all-out against me in endgame."
"CES, I don't care if you're not that good at reading so-and-so. I want you to at least make an effort."
"I think that CES needs to come out of the shadows and actually *do* something today."
"Even as I tell CES to do more, I have a feeling that he'll still provide minimul contribution/discussion"

Glork spent a lot of energy drawing connections between various people and CES/CDB before they were revealed. Patrick's relevant comments are more nudges away from CES/CDB than associative.