Open 585: Jungle Republic (ended)

[West9]

Not sure where I'm at in terms of the whole "maybe about to be prodded" thing, so here's a post just in case. Better post will come later.

[West9]

Cool kill, though.

[Aristophanes]

Nice shot werewolf!

Now, why do I have a wagon on me already!?
What did Gliff/Young/Jordan do that makes me scum!?
(I'll iso them now, but I don't recall anything)

[Aristophanes]

Oh, this makes more sense post-iso.

What to say...
In reading Young's iso, I noted him making an odd claim at a Lyserg/West scum team with no explanation. I see no reason for Lyserg to be scummy and am still extremely torn on West. Probably at least one is town, my guess being Lyserg. West could still go either way, but w/e.

Gliffie and Young both voted for/commented on Ginko/Cheet quite a bit.
Gliff I know likes to distance early on but is not big on a bus. Young is fine with them and may have been distancing. I think this a good possibility.
Jordan was no help other than his liking of the Metal and Acryon/Pisskop wagons. This doesn't mean he's not on a team with them or that they are not scum of some sort. This shouldn't excuse the scum reads people had pre-flip.

If you guys want a faster lynch on me, lemme know so I can go verbal diarrhea with theories and stuff first, alright?

[Cheetory6]

This week's gonna be busy for me. Gonna try to catch up when I have time to sit down and focus on just this.

[prawneater]

Prodge. I'm going to reread and post some thoughts later.

[farside22]

bolding some relevent points said by scum in regards to Ari

I am actually a little uptight about that. Acryon, whats with that? Trying to get an early wagon going?

Can you explain why an early wagon is a bad thing? Cuz I don't really seem to recall an instance of a game that you've been in where there's been a quickwagon on D1 that's resulted in anything bad happening?

Uh huh. You definitely weren't scum in a game and quickhammered West that led to a scum win.

I don't know why Ari is "testing the waters." Regardless, it seems so blatantly over the top safe scum play that I find it hard to believe that Ari would be so apparent about it. Meh, the votes seem fine I guess. Fine in the sense that I can see why people are voting him, but I don't find him scummy myself.

it feels like you are setting ari up for a mislynch or at least baiting him into a bad situation

I agree. Not for the same reasons, but I agree. All these "waiting until later" and reactions tests are hindering any kind of coherent conversation here, though.

Ginko, give me an actual read of Ari.

Ok.

I'll echo the feeling that Acryon seems to be playing safe. Not sure how much of that is just the timing of his posts. I feel he's only jumping on people once someone else has jumped on that wagon. More reactive than proactive would probably be the concise way to say that. Lal vote is cool in my book, though.

West and Lyserg are probably town? Lyserg, is your vote on Orc based solely on him not giving you a read on West or...?

VOTE: Ginko

I agree. Not for the same reasons, but I agree. All these "waiting until later" and reactions tests are hindering any kind of coherent conversation here, though

^What were your reasons to agree?

I'll answer this point at least.

I agree on the baiting Ari, although Orc's argument is pretty semantic-y for my tastes. At the very early of the game, Ginko's questioning of Aristophanes felt like a way to bait him into answering in a certain way that he knew would make him look bad. Aristophanes is lynch bait quite frankly, and they know this.

The fact that they left with a townish read on him is odd to me considering Cheetory's inability to read him correctly ever (who has made most of the contributions to the game so far as far as I can tell). Also, we're 3 days left until deadline and he's still pushing this weak case on West which no one is buying. He has yet to really take a stance on Ari or Lal. He's asking things to both, but I'm not seeing him reach any conclusions out of them or what the purposes of the questions are. I'm seeing a lot of vague or on the fence sitting positions on Ginko's slot, and my confirmation bias is telling me it's because the slot is scum. I wasn't around enough in this cycle to push them, but it's where I'm likely to start tomorrow.

Lal lynch is still fine. This day feels pretty much done regardless and just feels like some of the 1-man wagons to pick a side. Meh. Reading back what I missed more carefully since I skimmed.

[Metalcyanide]

Prod dodging I'll be on late tonight.

[Aristophanes]

@Farside
When reading the ISOs I knew those would be the two biggest quotes against me.

I would argue that he was buddying me.
He was slightly lurky, as have all 3 been in that spot, so he may have anticipated a lynch on him and tried to link us (leading to this exact scenario)
Alternately, he could easily have been buddying so that if the likely lynch on me went through, he would appear towny for his scepticism in the matter. I'm a very common early lynch, so I would argue the latter moreso, but both are possible and non-mutually exclusive.

Why would he be so blatant in his commentary on a scum buddy??

[Lyserg-Zeroz]

(Prolly gonna have ~24 hours of absence after this post)
Ari, explain unvote by the end of last day please. Also, explain your Metal and PK suspicions more, like your

This doesn't mean he's not on a team with them or that they are not scum of some sort. This shouldn't excuse the scum reads people had pre-flip.

doesn't tell me much other than Im not sure why you arent voting one of them.
Pedit: I mean, the first one feels a bit like grasping.

[pisskop]

Actually, it did occur to me that he was trying to specifically trying to lump to together Ari/Metal.

Assuming there was some kind of bus it would be either Ari or Metal. Or acryon, but Look at Metal's response come deadline. 'Sorry' Pisskop. That's a decent scumtell.

unvote

vote: Metal

[pisskop]

Metal

Why were you Sorry to vote me? Did you think you were hammering?

[pisskop]

Does scum Ari go to any great lengths to try to plea innocence as scums?

[Aristophanes]

I agree, it was just a thought. I would, as I say, argue the latter far more.

I unvoted for the exact reason I said I did. Bear with me as I explain this logic, because it is somewhat circular, but to me makes sense.
I wanted a lynch on one of them and said I would be back to hammer. The unvote was so that the numbers pre-hammer were accurate. If I had kept my vote on PK and a 5th person voted, I didn't want someone else to not vote, assuming I'd cover the hammer. As well, if a Metal lynch was more desirable, as people weresplit, I did not want to force the lynch I to either direction. I came back and voted where Iit had the most potential to lynch when I said I would. I don't see a problem with that.
Why does it bug you, Lyserg?

I didn't vote hoping others would chime in or something. Oh well, may as well since everyone is v/la it seems.
VOTE: Metal
I'm still okay with either lynch.

Ninja'd
Cool

[Aristophanes]

Pisskop
I'll let others answer that one.

[Lyserg-Zeroz]

Actually, it did occur to me that he was trying to specifically trying to lump to together Ari/Metal.

Assuming there was some kind of bus it would be either Ari or Metal. Or acryon, but Look at Metal's response come deadline. 'Sorry' Pisskop. That's a decent scumtell.

unvote

vote: Metal

Not sure if i skimmed over something i shouldn't have or is cause I'm in a sort of hurry, but I've got no idea what you are saying in the first para, "he" who? was lumping Ari and Metal together and how?

As for the second: I don't remember, sorry, think Cheet and West have played more with scumAri than me (I'd metaISO Ari, but dont have time) pedit have to go. It bugged me cause i didnt understand it, so it was to allow the lynch to go either way 0.0? Bleh gtg.

[pisskop]

He [Young slot] was lumping one scum into his scum teams/reads. Its ultimately a winning move for the scum.
. It let's the surviving scum get townred for suspecting the lynched one.

Considering the effort put into the game by both Metal-slot and Young-slot, all they had to do was declare their suspicion of the other and sheep the town. They lurk as much as possible and get to both stay under the radar while letting the more active players bicker and get to get some 'towncred' for having suspected their buddies.

For metal, his reads have been fairly superficial and his opinion of Gliffie was such that gliffie wasn't even mentioned until YYR was in, and it took him waffling until 592, and after that quite sparingly.

I'm thinking Metal is scums still, and would like to discuss werewolfies with the town. If we could decide on a werewolf canidate and lynch it, we could eliminate that whole thing. Still scummy, just not associated with other characters.

I agree that Vyse is a good place to start, especially considering YYR's demise.

[Honey bee]

Vote count 3.01

Metalcyanide (2):

pisskop, Aristophanes

Aristophanes (2):

farside22, Lyserg-Zeroz

Not voting: Cheetory6, Metalcyanide, prawneater, VysePresident, West9
With 9 alive It takes 5 to lynch. Day ends in: (expired on 2015-02-24 08:22:00)

[farside22]

Hi, here as promised.
Sad we're ever so close to mislynch territory

Theory will have to sit for a bit. Sorry I'm not elaborating, all in good time!

VOTE: Pisskop
It's our best chance at a majority right now.

I'm off to shower, hoping some ppl pop in before I get back!

You want to discuss what you meantby the above there.

No I don't believe yyr was buddying.
He had no issue voting lal that day after defending ari.

[Aristophanes]

By mislynch I meant no lynch. Simple mistake, and I apologize if it confuses things. Hadn't even noticed that mistake.

[Metalcyanide]

Metal

Why were you Sorry to vote me? Did you think you were hammering?

No I knew I wasn't the hammer but I assumed that you would be killed. I don't think you are scum but I dislike no lynch days. Honestly glad to still see you in the game.

[Metalcyanide]

So the wolf got a nice kill last night but it was probably the best move for him/her. Jordan/YYR/Gliffie haven't really played this game and very few of us began to talk about the slot until late D2. There is no way to trace the kill back to the wolf. The fact that Jordan was mafia is 100% dumb luck imo

[Aristophanes]

Any contributions to the current conversation, Metal?

[Aristophanes]

Sorry, I was walking home. Realized on reread I should say that in clear English.

Metal
Currently you and I have two votes each. These are based, partially, off of analysis of Young and Jordan's posts.
Why are you not addressing the votes on you or the points brought up, yet still commenting on the kill.

You were pushing the Jordan Trio as scum for lurking in the past. How is it "dumb luck" that they were scum?
Your posts there basically tell us nothing and are active lurking, despite appearing topical. Why no content in them?

[Aristophanes]

Farside
What does Young voting Lal have to do with your case against him buddying me?
I don't see how you got there.