[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

JasonWazza · Post Post #7850 (ISO) » Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:30 pm

In post 7833, BBmolla wrote:

Every night, the VTs submit the name of a player. If the player named the most is scum, they are shot.

BB is scum inclusive of the serial killer in this case?

I feel like Mafia would probably be a little boned if it is.

I also think that given the setup you need to have plurality lynches (you can easily just agree to no lynch after SK is dead and vote for a certain Member of the town.)

BBmolla · Post Post #7851 (ISO) » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:45 pm

In post 7850, JasonWazza wrote:
In post 7833, BBmolla wrote:

Every night, the VTs submit the name of a player. If the player named the most is scum, they are shot.

BB is scum inclusive of the serial killer in this case?

I feel like Mafia would probably be a little boned if it is.

I also think that given the setup you need to have plurality lynches (you can easily just agree to no lynch after SK is dead and vote for a certain Member of the town.)

It is inclusive of SK, why does that bone mafia?

Yeah I'll add must lynch.

JasonWazza · Post Post #7852 (ISO) » Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:18 pm

In post 7851, BBmolla wrote:
In post 7850, JasonWazza wrote:
In post 7833, BBmolla wrote:

Every night, the VTs submit the name of a player. If the player named the most is scum, they are shot.

BB is scum inclusive of the serial killer in this case?

I feel like Mafia would probably be a little boned if it is.

I also think that given the setup you need to have plurality lynches (you can easily just agree to no lynch after SK is dead and vote for a certain Member of the town.)

It is inclusive of SK, why does that bone mafia?

Yeah I'll add must lynch.

No kill and a possible night kill for Town (the voting system) realistically means that an SK dead D1 is a terrible thing for mafia.

The best chance they would have at that point is a lucky protect to "confirm" them

Bicephalous Bob · Post Post #7853 (ISO) » Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:12 am

In post 844, Bicephalous Bob wrote:/in to mod

Game Name: 3v3v3 Nightless
Game Type: Open
Game Size: 9

Optional Caption/Description of Game upon announcement: Everyone is a 1-shot Desperado until one scum faction is eliminated.

In post 845, TierShift wrote:Bob, is there a town faction? Do scum know their partners?

Yes. Yes.

callforjudgement · Post Post #7854 (ISO) » Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:25 pm

OK, so if that setup wasn't multiball, optimal strategy would be for people to vote for the two scummiest players, and force one of them to desperado the other (on pain of lynching). This continues throughout day 1; town never lets day end except to lynch someone who refuses to follow the strategy. If desperado'ing someone backfires, the target is confirmed as town.

In order to work out what happens in this setup, we need more information. Do the scum factions have nightkills? Must all Desperado shots be taken in public?

Bicephalous Bob · Post Post #7855 (ISO) » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:01 am

No (3v3v3 nightless). Yes (desperado).

I think the best general strategy is half of yours: run people up to L-1 and force them to shoot. Scum have to play along or get shot.

LlamaFluff · Post Post #7856 (ISO) » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:47 pm

Been playing around with a Popcorn variant...

9x Vanilla Town
2x Mafia Goon

*Day works as normal
*At nights mafia have the power to give a VT a gun to shoot for the night. If the VT hits town, the shooter dies. If the VT hits scum, the shooter lives and scum dies.
*During one night of scum's choice, they can kill as normal instead of giving town a gun

ika · Post Post #7857 (ISO) » Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:14 pm

In post 7856, LlamaFluff wrote:Been playing around with a Popcorn variant...

9x Vanilla Town
2x Mafia Goon

*Day works as normal
*At nights mafia have the power to give a VT a gun to shoot for the night. If the VT hits town, the shooter dies. If the VT hits scum, the shooter lives and scum dies.
*During one night of scum's choice, they can kill as normal instead of giving town a gun

the gun gets passed out at end of day right?

assuming so i feel like its slightly townsided due to the fact that town has not only the lynch but now a gun

Shinobi · Post Post #7858 (ISO) » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:49 pm

I have no idea what to do to make that Cell setup work properly. If anyone else has ideas, let me know. If I ran an Open setup, I'd probably go with something a bit more standard. /shrug

EDIT: Had a setup here but decided to keep it to myself for the time being.

LlamaFluff · Post Post #7859 (ISO) » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:24 pm

Also been trying to play around with a kingmaker type game

2x Mafia Goon
8x Vanilla Town
1x Town Successor

*At start of each day town has 14 real life days to vote on a king.
*King has remaining time from 14 days + 72 additional hours to execute a player
*If no one is elected by deadline game goes to night
*If king does not submit a kill game goes to night
*An election happens each day
*If King is ever night killed the Town Successor (if alive) automatically becomes king the following day with no election occurring
*Nights occur as normal
*Self-voting for choosing who is king is allowed

Shinobi · Post Post #7860 (ISO) » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:36 pm

I'm not one for balancing things, but you might run into an issue with apathy when it comes to a 14 day election phase. Every day the town isn't scumhunting is another day where town isn't playing, and it makes people lose interest, especially if you're electing someone every day.

One month for a single game day is a huge time commitment.

JasonWazza · Post Post #7861 (ISO) » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:27 pm

In post 7860, Shinobi wrote:I'm not one for balancing things, but you might run into an issue with apathy when it comes to a 14 day election phase. Every day the town isn't scumhunting is another day where town isn't playing, and it makes people lose interest, especially if you're electing someone every day.

One month for a single game day
is a huge time commitment.

I think you have it wrong, the king has the leftover time + 72 hours to select, not an extra 14 days (so it's still only half a month)

My question is, what motivation does the mafia have to kill a king if a new one is elected each day (when doing so will only bring out a confirmed town)

LlamaFluff · Post Post #7862 (ISO) » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:40 pm

In post 7861, JasonWazza wrote:My question is, what motivation does the mafia have to kill a king if a new one is elected each day (when doing so will only bring out a confirmed town)

To get rid of the confirmed town really. Sure it means they have no idea what is going on with respect to who will be controlling a kill, but that could be a good or bad thing.

JasonWazza · Post Post #7863 (ISO) » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:44 pm

In post 7862, LlamaFluff wrote:
In post 7861, JasonWazza wrote:My question is, what motivation does the mafia have to kill a king if a new one is elected each day (when doing so will only bring out a confirmed town)

To get rid of the confirmed town really. Sure it means they have no idea what is going on with respect to who will be controlling a kill, but that could be a good or bad thing.

Except they aren't really confirmed unless they make that kill, that's my problem with it, kill them when they claim or counterclaim them would be a lot better.

Shinobi · Post Post #7864 (ISO) » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:58 pm

In post 7861, JasonWazza wrote:
In post 7860, Shinobi wrote:I'm not one for balancing things, but you might run into an issue with apathy when it comes to a 14 day election phase. Every day the town isn't scumhunting is another day where town isn't playing, and it makes people lose interest, especially if you're electing someone every day.

One month for a single game day
is a huge time commitment.

I think you have it wrong, the king has the leftover time + 72 hours to select, not an extra 14 days (so it's still only half a month)

My question is, what motivation does the mafia have to kill a king if a new one is elected each day (when doing so will only bring out a confirmed town)

Yeah, I think I misread that.

Oops.

prawneater · Post Post #7865 (ISO) » Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:31 pm

I think for a kingmaker game, the king needs more power beyond the lynch of the day. Like the ability to deputize a sheriff for a night, or a kingsguard heal, or a secret service nightkill.

Otherwise, the game can and should be played as straight forward mafia. Town can make informal vote counts to majority lynch and elect anyone to be king. If the king deviates from majority lynch, he's lynched next day by the new king.

JasonWazza · Post Post #7866 (ISO) » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:05 am

Ok so this is gonna be my longer thoughts on the kingmaker game.

Honestly your basically playing a 9v2 mountainous game until you reach a 5v2 scenario which is where it can actually get interesting.

Fact is town best bet is to just random vote someone to be king (cause there is no point in actually caring who is king), and then to pick someone to lynch for the rest of the day, both scum and town have no reason to go against town majority early on, therefore the king actually makes no difference.

Scum play a normal game with the one exception (this is in my mind) in that you avoid killing the king and go for your second kill priority assuming the king is the first until the successor is actually dead, either that, or kill the king N1 if you really don't want the successor around cause i don't even know why.

Now to why it gets interesting at 5v2, this is the point that if scum get voted to king, their best bet is to take out a townie, "it's not LYLO" i hear you say, but that is exactly the point.

You bring it down to a 3v2 where there is one confirmed scum, if the other scum gets voted into the king in the next two days, scum wins the game, and the benefit is, if ONE townie fucks up, you have yourself and your scum partner (who should be doing no content now) to vote you for the win.

Aneninen · Post Post #7867 (ISO) » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:06 pm

Hi everyone,

I hope this is the right thread to present you my setup idea:

MATRIX–12

It's based upon the current Newbie Setup, Matrix–6. However, this one is a bigger version with more possible Setups, more available PRs and the total number of players is 13, just like in many Open and Normal games.

Matrix-12 is a possible "next step" after Newbie games: its main goal is to introduce new PRs to the newer players, just as well the possibility of being in a Multiball-game.
(If there has been a similar setup posted before, really sorry!)

How does Matrix-12 work?

(1) Each Setup contains 7 Vanilla Townies and 1 Mafia Goon.

(2) The remaining 5 roles are determined by the following matrix:

1	2	3	4	5	6
Mafia JOAT	Town Watcher	Mafia Roleblocker	Town Bodyguard	Town Jailkeeper	7
Town Neighbourizer	Town 1-shot Commuter	Town JOAT	Mafia 1-shot Bulletproof	Mafia Rolecop	8
Town Doctor	Mafia Roleblocker	Mafia Encryptor	Town Cop	Town Fruit Vendor	9
Werewolf Goon / SK (!)	Town Odd-Night Doctor	Town 1-shot Tracker	Town 1-shot Vigilante	Mafia Strongman	10
Werewolf JOAT / SK (!)	Werewolf Goon / SK (!)	Town 2-shot Vigilante	Mafia JOAT	Town Even-Night Doctor	11
					12

Just like in Matrix–6, the Mod secretly determines the Setup is to be played, but in Matrix–12 the Matrix can be read

diagonally too

. Therefore, the total amount of the possible Setups is 12 (not 10).

Spoiler: These are the possible PRs; the Vanilla Townies and the Mafia goon are included

(3) If the Setup contained only one Werewolf slot, it gets replaced by a Serial Killer. (These Setups: (2), (6) and (10) )
The Serial Killer is to choose their PR pregame:

either

Strongman AND Ninja

or

1-shot Bulletproof.

(4) If the Setup is 10:2:1 – (2) and (10) –, the Mafia faction has Daytalk. In all other cases there's no automatic Daytalk unless a Mafia Encryptor is present – (3), (6), (9), (12) – and he/she's alive.

(5) The Town JOAT has the following abilities: Doctor, Tracker, Vigilante – all of them are 1-shot. The JOAT can use only one of their abilities at Night.

(6) The Mafia/Werewolf JOAT has the following abilities: Ninja, Strongman, Roleblocker – all of them are 1-shot. The JOAT can use only one of their abilities at Night.

(7) If an X-shot ability is disabled during the night, the shot is lost for good. The Bulletproof ability blocks the first incoming shot automatically.

(8) Natural action resolution applies. A Roleblocker

can

block Nightkills but can't block passive abilities. No scum can perform a kill and an active ability at the same Night.

________

I'm open to any suggestion and modification.

GuyInFreezer · Post Post #7868 (ISO) » Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:00 pm

First of all it would be too confusing for people who are playing mafia for the first time.

JasonWazza · Post Post #7869 (ISO) » Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:05 pm

Which is why it would be the next step.

TierShift · Post Post #7870 (ISO) » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:00 pm

I think the idea is pretty great, I'm just not sure about the balance. All of town's strong PR's (jk, cop) are strictly countered by a roleblocker (rb, joat). I think scum can just claim to be VT's in these setups and not worry too much about confirmed townies; they can just kill them off. I suggest adding more goons in the matrix.

Also, setup 12 is reheheheaaaly underpowered for town.

Aneninen · Post Post #7871 (ISO) » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:50 am

In post 7869, JasonWazza wrote:Which is why it would be the next step.

Exactly. I'm thinking about adding this:

(9) Anyone finished at least one Newbie can signup for a Matrix-12 game.

In post 7870, TierShift wrote:I think the idea is pretty great, I'm just not sure about the balance. All of town's strong PR's (jk, cop) are strictly countered by a roleblocker (rb, joat). I think scum can just claim to be VT's in these setups and not worry too much about confirmed townies; they can just kill them off. I suggest adding more goons in the matrix.
Also, setup 12 is reheheheaaaly underpowered for town.

You're right.
I won't even pretend that I'm able to balance a Setup like this alone and on my first try.

How about reducing the

variability

of Scum-PRs? In that case they can't be surer than town about the Game Setup as it starts.
The JOATs are in good positions, the Roleblocker in position 37 could cause problems. I'm also considering removing the Encryptor.
Also, (12) is one of the three Setups which concerns me (the other one is (6), for a 9:3:1 there should be a stronger town and (3) seems to be overpowered for the scums).
So, any ideas are welcomed (and I'm constantly thinking about the possible changes).

SB · Post Post #7872 (ISO) » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:56 pm

Town JoaT and 2 shot vig being in the same setup seems kind of sketchy, since the game can end after Night 2 with misfires. Stuff like mafia BP with the 1 shot vigilante also seems kind of questionable, I don't think it needs nerfing there.

Also town in game 1 seems underpowered as hell. It's basically doc v 2 mafias who both have strongman kills.

Aneninen · Post Post #7873 (ISO) » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:43 am

SB, I've read your remarks and I'm thinking about them as well.

Topic-mod or whoever: am I allowed to open a new Thread for Matrix–12?

– I'm afraid that if we discuss about it amongst all of the other Setup ideas, that would "kill the thread" for everything else.

Back to SB and TierShift. Right now I think I'll create a 6×6 Matrix instead of an 5×5. If it would be 6×6, there would be 6

possible

PR slot for each Setup and by using VT and Goon cells balancing would be a much easier job. (In the most PR-rich Setup there would be still 6 VT and 1 goon, which means more than 50% of non-PR slots but it could be more.)

BBmolla · Post Post #7874 (ISO) » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:36 pm

I don't think there is really any other setup ideas going on. Just talk about it in here for now.

(I'm not a mod, but yeah.)