Open 21 - Friends and Enemies (Game Over), before 453

[Albert B. Rampage]

I've fulfilled my life when I killed Aimee. LOL.

[Jalyn]

Lowell hasn't posted since Friday. I would like to see his analysis of possible scum groupings.

Yep.

[Albert B. Rampage]

The more the merrier

[Lawrencelot]

The main reason why I would see Sir T as scum, is because there are too few alternatives. Jalyn doesn't seem scummy, so only Lowell, Sir T, Adel and me are left, of which 2 are scum. For me, there are only 3 left of which 2 are scum, and for the other townie there are also just 3 left. I would vote Sir T only because there are not enough other options, so I won't vote him right now.

[Sir Tornado]

Time's up.

Um, yeah... sorry about that! Took more like 36 hours...

I asked him to tell us what useful info he'd got from Aimee's death. Since this was his alleged reason for joining in her lynch, you'd expect him to have been bursting with this key info for which he sacrificed Aimee, but actually I had to persevere to get it out of him at all. He said after the nightkill, he thought the scum were Adel and Lowell. (This is his ninth post of the day, and he hadn't mentioned Lowell at all. I really think SIr T is making this up as he goes along.) Immediately after Aimee's death but before the NK results, his scum choices were Lawrence/Adel and bird. The fact that he discarded these choices after the nightkill show that Aimee's death turned out to be entirely useless in determining Sir T's scum picks, which are in fact based on the NK of Papaya.

Ok, firstly, I admit that I did not get much information from Aimee's death. I was, in fact hoping that she would come up scum. My views are based on Papaya's NK, yes. I am not making it up as I go along, however.

Therefore I believe his attempt to justify his lynching of Aimee for the info we could gain from it is demolished. He gained nothing, we gained nothing and the comments he makes when pressed about Lawrence and Adel are confused and unconvincing.

Um... I did not lynch Aimee! ABR did. I felt that he made sense in his lynch which was why I voted for Aimee. I agree that we did not gain much from that lynch.

Jalyn also makes the excellent point that Sir T pushed hard for reasons to get a claimed mason, ABR or Papaya, lynched Day 2. The reasons:

Give me one reason why we shouldn't lynch YOU or ABR if your choice of lynch turns out to be a townie? Ok, so, you've claimed mason, and I believe that for now, but I will have major doubts over that if your lynch does not turn out to be a scum.

If ABR and Papaya didn't pick a scum to be lynched, Sir T wants one of them lynched next day. Where's the sense in this? They were masons, not cops. Did they strike you as efficient scum-finding machines? I somehow doubt it. Looks like a plan to follow ABR and Papaya in the lynching of a townie, hold them accountable and lynch a mason next day. Here are the votes at the time of Post 345:

A Papaya (2) -- ryan, bird1111,
Aimee (2) -- Lowell, Sir T
ryan (1) -- Ripley
Adel (3) -- Albert B. Rampage, Papaya, Theopor
ABR (1) – lawrence

Both masons on the Adel wagon, joined by Theo, With several other possible Adel voters on the scene. A mason-led lynch of Adel looks like a real possibility. If Adel is innocent it's all set up for a mason lynch tomorrow. Double whammy for the scum.

I found the claimed masons a bit suspicious on day 1, and like I said on day 1, although I decided to agree with them on that day, I was not sure if they were actually masons.

Reasons for that:

1) Papaya's scummy behaviour
2) ABR issuing 72 hour deadline (later revoked)
3) ABR's extreme confidence in lynching Adel, Ryan and Lawrencelot as you can see in the following post:

GUYS GUYS! I FOUND THE SCUM! THEY'RE ALL HIDING IN ryan's CLOSET!!!

*everybody follows me rushing to the basement of ryan's house*

ALRIGHT, THIS IS IT.

*opens the closet door*

OMG! Adel, ryan and Lowell are all inside!

and

GUYS GUYS! C'MON!

Forget about the alphabetical order, and let's get jiggy with it!

Adel asks you to post an analysis on EVERY PLAYER except papaya.
Albert just asks you to post an analysis on Adel and ryan.


WHO'S SIDE YOU ON ?!? SERIOUSSSLY!

Join my campaign! VOTE FOR ALBERT!!! (well, not literally)

*ryan smacks Albert back to his Machiavellian self*

Vote for Adel.

If you don't do what I ask, I will reveal the third member of the masonry within 72 hours.

Don't make me push the red button. 72 hours. Time is of the essence. The clock is ticking. Etc.

It sent general bad vibes to me, with the over confidence and pompousness. (I realized later that ABR always plays like that, but I did not know it back then)

He claims that you (Lawrencelot) were obviously being framed, though somehow despite this he has reverted to the position where it's close between Lawrencelot/Adel in his supicions. I already asked him (Post 761) how a player that was being framed could be scum, but I got no answer.

Hmm... I don't think I should have said "obviously being framed". More like "most likely framed". My fault, yes.

I'm also suspicious of post 729 where Sir T tries to set up a vote on whether we should lynch someone right away. Maybe he didn't want bird, or bird's replacement, taking part in the day (if so, judging by Jalyn's posts, he was right not to want it) But just a few posts later, 751, he is very firmly in favor of a longer day 3 and waiting for bird. Maybe, with absolutely no takers for the idea of the immediate lynch, he thought it wiser to declare his allegiance to the other camp.

Ok, I see that you are referring to this post:

We can do this two ways today:

1) Conclude that we already have all the information we need and lynch someone right now.

2) Decide that we do not have enough information for a lynch, and try to gather more by having more discussion.

What would the majority of town prefer?

First of all, this post was directed mostly at Lowell's post 726 (I made a mistake in NOT quoting that post in there). In that post, he said:

* bangs head against wall *

I can't believe how we're still not seeing this. LOOK AGAIN at the pages leading up to ryan's death. That's pages 10-15ish. You... really think Lawrence might not be guilty? That's insane.

Adel- Wow you're edgy.

First, I'm not even voting you... and I didn't vote you YESTERDAY, so chill out with the "Lowell is attacking me" bit.

Second, if you were an actual townie, you wouldn't CARE that I find you suspicious if I'm voting for someone else. If you think Lawrence is scum you'd vote for him and worry about tomorrow tomorrow. The fact that you're so intent on attacking me NOW makes me think what really worries you is that your scummate will be gone and you'll be left to fend for yourself, and that I'll attack you tomorrow. Which I probably will.

So the question isn't what do you think about ME. The question is

what do you think about Lawrence

? Yesterday you seemed happy to vote him when albert was declaring open season on he and Aimee. Now, on your own, you don't even want to comment on him it seems. You're directing your anger at me to avoid having to take a position on your scumbuddy. Hell you're not even voting ME for fear of buddying up to him too much. You're voting, conveniently enough, for a lurker.

My god this is obvious. People, vote for Lawrence already.

He seems to be very happy to go forth with his lynch of Lawrencelot without much discussion. So, I wasn't selling that idea to anyone. I was trying to point out the fault in Lowell's

"lynch Lawrencelot already"

strategy. I did not do that properly though.


So, you are wrong to say

"Maybe, with absolutely no takers for the idea of the immediate lynch, he thought it wiser to declare his allegiance to the other camp.

" because:

1) I did not support the quick vote idea (I should have stated it)

2) There was one taker for that already -- Lowell, as you can see from his later post:

No, I don't care if Bird posts yet. Lawrence is scum, dear god he's scum.

You're my next target after him. Knowing this town, though, we'll lynch someone stupid and you'll breeze by again. But that is neither here nor there.

I want everyone to look again at Lawrence's posts 250 and then 308. The way he says "maybe I believe papaya" (testing the waters) then turns around and joins Adel and ryan in NOT believing both papaya AND ABR is ... just... bewildering.

Really, the strongest argument AGAINST Adel being scum is Lawrence's willingness to jump to her support. I don't know that he would have joined in ryan's and her defense (pitting all three scum against five or six united townies) had a townie not already been there.

Adel- Though I find it unlikely, I could see you not being scum. However, I CANNOT see Lawrence not being scum. Hence the vote.

Here's why I don't think Bird is scum. Were he scum deciding intentionally to not support his doomed scumbuddies (ryan and Lawrence), he would have made CLEAR this view, if for no other reason than to blend in w/ the rest of us. Being silent and invisible calls more attention than just saying "sure, I agree w/ ABR."

Also, this town never quicklynches anyone. Them's crocodile tears you're shedding in worrying about it.

which gave me the impression that he wants to lynch Lawrencelot quickly before much discussion takes place.

[Sir Tornado]

Lowell hasn't posted since Friday. I would like to see his analysis of possible scum groupings.

He seems to be away. He isn't posting in any of the three games I am in with him.

[Lowell]

Yeah I'm here. Still don't have reliable enough comp access to post yet.

Two quick things:
1) Tornado, you've gone over the deep end. I want a quicklynch without discussion? Why? Where do you see that? I believe I've laid out my reasons pretty clearly, in both the post you cite and in others. There are no "quicklynches" in these games, everything takes weeks. To accuse someone of trying to quicklynch is like accusing them of witchcraft: it sounds scary but really means nothing. It's a cheap gimmick to make it look like you're hunting scum.
2) I'm falling off the "Adel and Lawrence" wagon, sadly. Thanks to the obfuscation of others, I now actually think one of them is innocent. I CERTAINLY don't think they both are, however, and it shocks me that some people do. We ought to lynch one of these idiots today. I still say Lawrence is the play.

Also, I'll hopefully be back in full force soon.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Mmmm keep yourself from calling players 'idiots', we're in a friendly environment after all

What do you think of Jalyn/Sir T ?

P.S.: your comparison of quicklynch and witchcraft is going to my sig lol

[Lowell]

Wow I'm honored.

Is Jalyn replacing bird? If so, I still have no opinion of her.

Sir T. M'eh, I don't know anymore. TBH, after I read the exchange at the end of D1, I pretty much decided Adel/Lawrence were the remaining scum and have been in cruise control since.

IF Adel/Lawrence arent' the last 2 scum, then SIR T is my next most likely candidate.

Adel and Lawrence have been two peas in a pod all the way up to the beginning of D2, when they both subtly suggested the town should look at me as a possible lynch. Someone called them on it and since then they've done some mad distancing. I don't buy it.

[Adel]

Lowell: Jalyn did replace bird1111.

I'm all about the Law + Sir T wagon at this point. Either lynch is fine by me. My current vote is on Sir T who I have a stronger suspicion of, but I could switch it to see this day over and this game won. I now think we've broken it.

If Sir T were to turn up town, Jayln would be the obvious partner of Law. Too obvious?
If Law were to turn up town, I think Sir T + Lowell would be the pick.

I'm awfully confident of Law + Sir T.

[Lawrencelot]

2) I'm falling off the "Adel and Lawrence" wagon, sadly. Thanks to the obfuscation of others, I now actually think one of them is innocent. I CERTAINLY don't think they both are, however, and it shocks me that some people do. We ought to lynch one of these idiots today. I still say Lawrence is the play.

One of us is certainly innocent, and that one is me. If I were in your place, I could also believe that the 2 of us are not both innocent. But, the one thing that's wrong with your arguments (that's not in this post, but some pages back) is that you don't want to take responsibility when I turn out to be town.

Mmmm keep yourself from calling players 'idiots', we're in a friendly environment after all

Thanks, but I didn't really mind (and you're not the one to say that, looking at D1). After all, we'll see who the idiot is if Lowell would succeed lynching me.

IF Adel/Lawrence arent' the last 2 scum, then SIR T is my next most likely candidate.

Adel and Lawrence have been two peas in a pod all the way up to the beginning of D2, when they both subtly suggested the town should look at me as a possible lynch. Someone called them on it and since then they've done some mad distancing. I don't buy it.

1. Could be, but we don't have that many shots.
2. So you going after me and Adel is basically OMGUS? Btw, I saw you as a possible lynch because I thought you were close to Adel iirc, but I admitted I was wrong because I noticed Adel was only trying to be on your side, not vice versa.
3. If I was scum with Adel I wouldn't reveal my views so obviously D1, to go after ABR and A Papaya and backing up Adel. I would have distanced myself from her (well not distanced, rather ignored) at the beginning of D1 if I was her scumpartner.

If Sir T were to turn up town, Jayln would be the obvious partner of Law. Too obvious?
If Law were to turn up town, I think Sir T + Lowell would be the pick.

If Sir T was town, why would I be scum? That would only be because there are not enough possibilities, but you could be scum too if Sir T was town. Or Lowell. Not Jalyn.
If I turn up town, you should go after Lowell, while you still can.

[Sir Tornado]

If I turn up town, you should go after Lowell, while you still can.

IF

you turn up town?

If

?

[Lawrencelot]

It's not sure I get lynched, and if I don't get lynched I don't turn up town . I said when rather than if every post before btw.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Sir T, what's your take on Jalyn ?

[Sir Tornado]

Sir T, what's your take on Jalyn ?

I wasn't sure about Bird at all, but from what I have seen of Jalyn in this game, I am leaning on Jalyn being town.

[Albert B. Rampage]

And between Law and Adel, who's your pick to die ?

[Sir Tornado]

Like I have said on this day, I think Adel/Lowell is the scum pair. So, between Lawrencelot and Adel, I would pick Adel.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Meh good enough,

Vote: Adel

[Jalyn]

Meh good enough,

Vote: Adel

That seems a bit out of the blue? What is your reasoning for Sir Tornado not being the play for today?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Simply a pressure vote.

This is a situation where Adel's diagrams would prove useful.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Posts such as these:

If Adel is a townie, then I think ryan is likely to be a townie too, and the masons are mostly lurking. This is not that likely (but it is possible), so I don't know who is mason now, but I still don't believe ABR and papaya.

make me cringe.

Sir T and Lawrencelot are almost surefire scum teamates if we can find one last piece of the puzzle.

Who could Jalyn be teamed with ? Lawrencelot ? Maybe.

Who could Adel be teamed with ? Lowell...hmm...possibly.

Who could Sir T be teamed with ? Only Lawrencelot.

What about Lowell and Sir T ? Now that's scary.

Sir T has been consistent in going after Adel. Lawrencelot tried to scapegoat Adel. Jalyn attacks Sir T a lot. Lowell has been going against Adel and Law strongly on day 2.

We have 2 shots at hitting scum. We should either go after Lawrencelot and Sir T. The game becomes a piece of cake after we kill one of the two scum.

[Adel]

Just popping in for a sec. What do you want on the diagram? I can have in ready on Friday.

Votes, unvotes, and Fos's? What about day 2, the voting was a little weird then. Having all three days could be too much information for the diagram to be clear.

This is the last diagram that I did for a game:
t shows the order of events, and which votes put someone to lynch -1. Maybe the additional information makes it too confusing.

I would like to put every action since the random voting ceased, but that will yield a whole bunch of lines. I think I would post it in four parts, day 1, day 2, day 3, and the days combined.

If someone would like to help, a really time consuming part is going through each page and writing down each vote, unvote, and fos. If Other people could chip in and generate that list it would make my job a whole lot easier, and far less time consuming.

This is the format of the list for the graphic I would prefer:

1. abr v srt
2. adl f jly
3. low n law
4. rip f aim
5. pap v the
6. ryn n brd

f = FOS, v = vote n = unvote (u gets confusing with v) - the numbers are just the sequence of events, the player abbreviations are really easy to type, and are what I've been using in my notes. Feel free to spell player names if that suites your fancy.

The more people that contribute to building the list the more assured we all can be that the list is impartial and accurate. The diagram can only be as good as the original data, and I always make a couple of mistakes when I do it on my own.

[Ripley]

I've got the votes and unvotes up to post 320, if that's any use to you. That was the point at which I gave up in despair.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Holy shit.

We just need connections of who attacked who - with one color for each level of accusation: red for highest suspicion, orange for mild, yellow for low.

For example, for Lowell it would be red to Lawrencelot, red to Adel. yellow to Sir T.

For Jalyn, red to Sir T...and I don't clearly remember much of the rest.

Our players of interest are simply you, Jalyn, Lowell, Sir T and Law.

[Albert B. Rampage]

All we need is from Day 2 onward.

We didn't use much voting or FoS-ing after day 1 so numbering the votes and unvotes isn't necessary. We just need to identify the attacks.

For clarification purposes...the players without clear suspicions ranked in order should wave a flag with the appropriate color to each of the 4 other players, based on their suspicion level