On the Issue of Villiage Idiots (VI's)

[NabakovNabakov]

There is definitely one fact that everybody on this site must face and deal with:

Some people are absolutely awful at playing Mafia.



In just about every game I've played in my short time on this site, there have been players who post badly, vote stupidly, reason poorly, and usually get their dumb asses lynched (or close to lynched) on D1. I would post examples, but most of them are ongoing. However, I know there are experienced players who have seen this before and could round up some old games to stand as examples (or just head on over the Worst-Town Play Thread).

I know that this is the type of play that newbie games are supposed to prevent and contain, but newbies don't

have

to just play newbie games (nor do I think they should) and Village Idiots (VI's) manage to slip into regular games all the time.

The main question this thread addresses isn't how to prevent VI's from joining games (because I don't think there is an acceptable way to do that), it's how to respond when they do. The following questions all arise when considering the issue of VI's:

-Is it in the best interests of the town to lynch a VI because he/she seems scummy as most VI's do?

-Is "Don't lynch him, he's just a newbie" a valid defense?

-How should scum players deal with the situation? (because this is an all-purpose theory thread) Is it better to bus the VI, defend him, or just sit back and watch?

-How much of analyzing a VI lynch comes down to WIFOM?

-Are there any effective strategies to get VI's to improve their behavior? Is there any way to deal with the situation so that they don't become bitter regarding Mafia?


I have my own answers to some of these questions, but I'm more interested in what the rest of the community has to say. It is my hope that we can assemble a variety of theories regarding VI's and how to deal with them, and that a comprehensive Wiki entry can be written on the subject. We will continue to deal with idiotic players, but if we begin seeing them as part of the game mechanics, and we face them with a strong base of knowledge, things should work out much better in the end.

[NabakovNabakov]

Depends whether he is genuinely scum or not, yes, depends on the situation

But thats where the real problem lies (and I probably should have mentioned this in the OP) VI's are so incomprehensible that you never can tell if they're really bad scum or just really bad town.

Are there any good scumtells when looking at a really bad player?

[NabakovNabakov]

It might also be that Newbie Games are a more friendly environment for bad play. Somebody being an idiot in a Newbie will get help/support from an IC. Someone being an idiot in a Mini will just get abused in a vicious cycle.

[NabakovNabakov]

To prevent the thread from going too far off topic (though this could be an interesting topic of discussion for a seperate thread). I will definitely clarify that this is in no way an attack on

different

playstyles, just bad playstyles. Those who prefer action and relative silence to lots of discussion are fine by me as long as they're effective in doing it. VI's can mess up the game by posting too little or a wall of words. Perhaps "Stimpy" is the best example to use here.

[NabakovNabakov]

Like I said in the OP, I'm still new, so most of the best examples I've seen are on-going, but my newbie gamewas just declared dead, and there's a pretty good example in there (BeanBrew), but because it's newbie, people are more helpful than opportunistic. The town eventually decides not to lynch him, but I've seen towns go either way.

(I am the

master

of conjungtions)

[NabakovNabakov]

@ EmpTyger: This isn't supposed to be a discussion about lurking and how it causes bad play (or how lurking might be a valid playstyle). This is a discussion about how bad play (no matter what form it takes) affects the game from a tactical standpoint, and I will agree that bad play can probably best be defined "any play that causes a player, or their faction, to lose or come close to losing." Bad posts can be short and spread out or long and almost constant, but many of the tactical issues remain.

How do you, as town, get tells on a player who has no idea what they're doing?
How do you, as scum, work a player's incompetence to your advantage (or deal with having a crappy scum partner)?

I did not start this thread with any intention of making a political statement, and I have a great deal of respect for any play as long as it can be defined "good."

Once again, I would like to emphasize

Tactical

. This is about accepting the presence bad play, and in accepting it, opening up new areas for discussion, strategy, and tactics.

[NabakovNabakov]

In an attempt to revive this thread, I present the example of Nekka-Lucifer in Mini 451. He was basically lynched for being the VI, and I, as scum, used it as an opportunity to build cred with the town for following days (too bad Pickem was an infallible cop)

[NabakovNabakov]

What the hell are you talking about Pickem? I got the game number right the first time. You really need to get your reading glasses.