Open 28 - Quack Mafia. OVER! But who won? before 466

[Mert]

Hi everyone, my name's Mert and I'm a Doctor. Last night my target didn't die, meaning I'm either not a Quack or my target is Mafia.

Anyway, in the interests of a wagon,

Vote: Dral

.

[Mert]

Unvote

Dral, you shouldn't self vote as there could have been reasons why you're not a Quack. For example, both scum and a Quack could have targetted your target, negating your functioning Doc powers.

Moreover, while I love a good wagon, I'm not keen to end this day just yet.

[Mert]

Gah, underneat-quoting...

Vote: curiouskarmadog

.

[Mert]

EBWOP: *underneath

[Mert]

I agree, a mass claim of choices might be good in a few days but I don't really want to do it now. What I

would

consider today (though I'd want some discussion from everyone on the merits first) would be people just claiming whether they protected or didn't protect but not claiming their targets yet. Thoughts?

[Mert]

But you could just tell

me

, right Aimee? In exchange for eternal Merthuggles and stuff, y'know?

[Mert]

I think we should tell all targets. It should be fairly easy to catch the scums in a lie. We can't wait for a few days because, as people die, it will be easier to lie.

Will it? We know how

many

Quacks there are, so scum claiming either Doc or Quack will get harder the more confirmed (ie. dead) people we have. In addition to that, we know the maximum number of "quack attacks" we can have per night, so scum later saying "I must be a Quack because I targetted [x] and [y]" could out them far easier in later days than after only one night.

I'd be interested in hearing what you think the benefits of claiming today would be though, as there are certain advantages that it holds over a later claim. I'd like to hear your plan for if we mass claim targets today and compare it to if we keep hold of the information for later on.

[Mert]

I protected curiouskarmadog last night, for similar reasons to those given by theopor_COD for his choice - I figured the IC gang would be targets by a whole bunch of people and so my information would be almost worthless. By choosing a target randomly I figured I'd have a better chance of being the only person to target them, therefore learning more about the nature of my role than I would anyway.

BM, I'm with Theopor on this one... his choice makes sense.

Not to say I'm not flattered by the amount of people that targetted me, of course

[Mert]

hmm, so Mert and Indy claim they protected me last night and I am still alive...interesting. So that means that at least one

must

be a doctor..or one (or both) are lying.

Or you could be scum.

[Mert]

A quack cannot kill mafia or townies correct?

There are no townies. There are Quacks, Doctors and Scum. Quacks do not kill scum if they target them but the do kill Doctors. Doctors protect from one kill, whether it comes from Quack or Scum.

So what prompted you to protect CKD last night?

[Mert]

So your strategy was to try and target someone you believed would be targetted so you could test your role?

[Mert]

CKD, I'm about to go to bed so I will respond to you more fully tomorrow, but for now I'd just like to point something out to you:

Mert

Mafia Scum



Gender:

<--- THIS

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: London, England

But yeah, as for your posts about me, I'll reply tomorrow when I get online.

[Mert]

As I stated, this is my first Quack game.

I'm pretty sure this is almost everyone's first game of Quack Mafia. It's certainly the first I've ever heard of this setup - I'm not sure such a game has ever been played on Scum before and, if it has, these games are not exactly a dime a dozen. I don't put any stock at all in your constant "but this is my first Quack game" posts because it's my first too - the difference is, I'm trying to work out how we can use the setup to our advantage as best as possible whereas you're hiding behind your lack of experience with the setup.

I did not pick anyone because I thought there were 6 quacks and 3 doctors..I have never played a quack game before, and did not like the odds of killing a townsperson.

Can you also clarify

why

you thought there were six Quacks? This is an Open game and, as such, all roles and the setup are posted in the public domain. When I was deciding on who to protect last night, I looked at the setup in the OP to try and make sure I wasn't making any false assumptions. Why would you not have done the same?

if anybody does any metagaming, they will find a current game that Dral was too busy to play in (that started before this one) and had to be replaced. I think he stayed in this game because he is mafia which is far more interesting than being a vanilla townie..I am sure if I dig a little more I will find more games.

Dral, care to comment on why you had to be replaced in other games, but want to play this one?

As for the Dral got replaced elsewhere idea, it could simply be that he joined a few more than he perhaps should have done and realised he'd need to drop out of one. Besides, your argument that Scum is more interesting is Townie could just as easily work that Doctor is more interesting than Townie. And what do we know about all the protown players in this game?

Seriously, poor line of attack on Dral. As it happens, I think he's probably town right now.

CKD, I'm already voting for you - I put it there originally just to see how you / others would react. Now you've reacted and I think you're scum. Vote stays.

[Mert]

JDodge, who should we lynch?

[Mert]

I try to subtly change my playstyle in each and every game I play in. The only exception is in Newbie games where my style might shift slightly but I retain the "teaching" element intact.

So I have no problem with JDodge right now. Sure, I've seen scum hide behind playstyle before but I've also experienced the desire to come at different games from different angles.

JDodge, if you are scum then we'll get you eventually anyway. If you're not then carry on - but you'll be called on to prove that you're willing to help at some point before we reach LyLo. As long as your new, subdued playstyle has the capacity to step it up a notch as the stakes rise, then I have no problem with it.

[Mert]

Mert you have never answered my question (or I missed the post somehow) You accused me of being suspicious for voting CKD, and asked for an explanation, which I gave. Now, how about answered your side of the question, why did you protect CKD, what motivation did you have and why would you assume I knew you targeted him. These are questions you really haven't answered for me and I would like to know the answers as they are the key reasons I have a vote on you.

Sure. First you said this (bolded for emphasis):

First round, I decided to just protect a random person and

hope maybe they got an attempt on their life

so I could be sure about their or my role.

So I said this:

So your strategy was to try and target someone you believed would be targetted so you could test your role?

And then ControlledBurn said this:

Yeah, I agree, that makes no sense. Indy, how were you going to figure out if you're a doc or quack when you fully expected someone else to target the same person?

And then you said this:

I can't help but just be confused by Mert's question, <snip quote> Just seems like an odd out of the park question. It was first round... how would anyone know who might be targeted? What made you choose Curious? What made anyone choose anyone first round, it was like a stab in the dark trying to turn suspicion to me.

Which neatly dodged my question. I asked why your strategy was to target somebody who you thought would be the target of a Mafia kill. Your best bet for "testing your role" was to find somebody who

nobody

else targetted. Then only your action dictates what happened and you can find out whether you are Doc or Quack in one night.

But your post didn't say you hoped you'd find someone who nobody went after, your post said you hoped to find someone who received an attempt on their life. If another player targets your player then it muddies the issue as to what your ability actually is. In fact, the more people on one person, the less they all know.

Then you later changed your story to this:

When did I -ever- say I thought Curious was going to be targeted by another, I just targeted a random person, that is the way I do.

Nobody was disputing the random element. What we were questioning was your post that says you hoped that scum would also target the person you did. So you didn't choose Curious because thought he would be targetted by someone else, but you did hope that someone else would pick the same as you. And that's the part that people have been questioning and you have continually dodged around by answering questions that were similar but not the same.



So there we go, I've shown you mine so now you show me yours - what are these key reasons you're voting for me? I just thought it was, y'know, an OMGUS vote. But if you have reasons then go for it. As much detail as you can muster.

[Mert]

I have this feeling that there must be some Dethy-esque way of working all this out over the next couple of days but I'm leading myself around in circles trying to figure it out. That list Theopor posted is very helpful, however. I'm going to try and work out if there's anything at all we can confirm at this early stage, or if there's anything that can be confirmed by tomorrow but I wonder if midnight is really when I'm going to be at my prime, so I may have to continue tomorrow (as in RL tomorrow). Beats work, right?

[Mert]

Dral, we can still catch the scum in a lie, don't worry about that. Yes it might be more difficult than you had thought, but it's still possible.

Plus, we can still catch scum the old fashioned way. Let's have a look at those people that claim to have protected me (as others have mentioned) and then go from there.

[Mert]

I think I was targetted by scum last night for a kill. Call it an ego thing if you want, but I believe that one of the people on the "I protected Mert" wagon was the person who sent in the kill. Mostly gut, perhaps, but I just don't see that many people deciding to target me all on Night One.

Now if it does turn out to be the case that scum targetted me, we can assume that the other two people who protected me are genuine doctors as the kill was blocked. Of course, if we can confirm two non-quack doctors somehow then the town can win this game just by not lynching either of those two and having them protect one another every night. This is A Good Thing, so it is in our best interest to look at those people on my wagon and try to establish if one is scum - the quicker we can have two confirmed (or mostly confirmed, at least) non-quacks the better.

Given my thoughts above, since Dral is the only person to have claimed protecting the dead guy, I believe him to be a Quack at this time.

[Mert]

The aim of this game has to be to get two doctors confirmed as quickly as possible, correct?

So how about this:

Three of us each select one person from outside that group that will target us. Nobody else must target one of us or the three "protecting" us. Would scum risk wasting a kill on one of the three of us, knowing we're all guaranteed to either be protected or die anyway? I doubt it.

So they may target one of the three that is doing the protecting but at the very least, assuming nobody protown decided to be an asshat, we should then know who is a Quack and who is either a Doc or is Quack targetting scum. So we lynch one of the targets who seems the scummiest and start confirming people...

What do people think? Does this make sense? Could we use this as a potentially game-breaking strategy?

[Mert]

great then maybe you can help lynch BM. Everyone's claimed, topics have been exhausted, and I've already seen arguments against BM, no need to regurgitate them.

How about we lynch BM and, if he's town, we lynch you tomorrow?

[Mert]

I think BM's death will tell us more about Piggy's alignment than Piggy's will about BM's, that's all.

[Mert]

Don't worry BM, I wanted to see how she responded to the suggestion rather than actually planning to do it.

Right now, I still want to lynch CKD mostly.

[Mert]

yeah I bet you would, as it provides exactly no information to anyone.

Why would lynching you give us no information?

[Mert]

Well, for one, I didnt protect anyone last night as you well know (think that is your whole arguement as to why the town should lynch me). As I have said, I will not make that mistake twice. Figuring this game out as a go, I think it is important to figure out the puzzle that is laid before us, unfornately, the only part of the puzzle I am is where people "protected" me last night.

Perhaps I should rephrase my question - why is information that comes from your lack of night action the only action we would get by lynching you? Your role, people's reactions to your role, people's reactions today when you claimed not to have protected - all of these things do not involve you, yet give us information. As it happens, I believe you to be scum and the fact you claimed not to have protected is a symptom of that suspicion rather than the cause of it. Call it gut feeling if you like, but it's more - the safest claim scum could possibly have made was to have claimed nothing today. I figure the first person to have claimed to have done nothing stands a good possibility of being the first scum panicking under the fact that their ability to lie consistently is on test in this game possibly far more than any other game of Mafia.

However, Ms Piggy, is playing quite scummy and she claimed that she has protected someone...more information.

Ms Piggy may be playing in a way that appears less than protown, but your insistance that going after you above her is scummy in itself is little more than glorified OMGUS. I believe the reactions to Ms Piggy's protection claims are of less value than the reactions to your "nobody" claim - again, please stop thinking that all information obtained from your lynch comes from you and your role directly.

What I think is VERY interesting is that you seemed all buddy/buddy with Dral and I thought he was scummy, now Piggy is his replacement, she is playing even scummier, and you have totally over looked her. I would like to see you comment on Piggy.

She is playing without giving much content. I have yet to have decided if this is a scumtell and I got good vibes from Dral. Whether you agree or not is immaterial and should not be a factor in whether you are suspicious of me until you know the role of those people you accuse me of being "buddy-buddy" with.

So my comment on Ms Piggy is that I'd like to see more actual content from her before I make my mind up. You, however, seem content to base everything off the six short posts she has made. Yes, they are not helpful or spectacularly protown, yet I feel it is a little premature to assume that she is scum before she has even made her first PBPA/in-depth post.


As for Hjallti's point that the aim is not to confirm two doctors but to lynch scum, surely you understand that two confirmed doctors is a guaranteed town win, as they'd effectively become unkillable. Yes, the ultimate aim is to lynch all the scum, but having two living confirmed doctors gives the chance the best way to do this. Nice to see you've based your vote on little more than semantics and interaction with another player whose alignment the town does not know. Final note, did I not acknowledge that I had a gut feeling I was targetted last night and did not, in fact, present it as fact? Nice misrepresentation though, it's noted.

[Mert]

I'm usually not in the business of thinking of possible partnerships on Day One, but there is something noteworthy about Ms Piggy / BM though. Needs further investigation once we know one of their alignments, definitely.

I still vastly favour a CKD lynch today. The problem is, this game has rather stalled (and I am aware that I am as much a part of that problem as many other people) and I would rather everyone weighs in before we lynch anybody... even CKD. For that reason,

Unvote

for now.

[Mert]

Mert was asked more than once to give his view on the alledged connection with Ms/ Piggy. He still didn't answer, but dodged the question;

Well, if one were so inclined to be pedantic, one could point out that you did not, in fact, ask a direct question of me, but merely made statements in the hope I would respond.

However, I'm not going to argue semantics. Frankly the last time you posted "linking" me and Ms Piggy together, I answered the points I felt needed answering. If there is something specific you'd like me to address, please post a specific question in your next post. All I currently have from you is faulty logic that appears that you have decided that Ms Piggy and I are connected and then have gone back through the game looking for ways to back that up, rather than reaching the conclusion naturally.

[Mert]

Loving d3sisted's entrance to the game - he seems to understand my reasons for suspecting CKD, who I still favour for lynching, of course.