Mini 466 - Game Over

[Kison]

~~Day One: Vote Count~~

Code: Select all

AmeliaLi        (4)  : Indy, Nanosauromo, curiouskarmadog, klopyrev
Nanosauromo     (1)  : Jester
Jester          (1)  : Lowell
Indy            (1)  : Numenorean7
Lowell          (1)  : Dral
klopyrev        (1)  : ryan

Not Voting      (3)  : Sir Tornado, AmeliaLi, MightyFireball

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to lynch.

[ryan]

Uh... I'm still here.

Should we expect a content post from you tonight than?

[MightyFireball]

Gasp! Ryan never confirmed. That means he can't be here. PARADOX!

[ryan]

I'm just wondering how voting for myself is anti-town? If I'm mafia, why would I want to vote for myself? What would be the benefit of that?

This quote still screams a big, WHAT, from me. I think the exchange after that from klopy was enough to warrant "what are you doing" BTW, I did confirm in a pm to the mod 8)

[Nanosauromo]

Uh... I'm still here.

Should we expect a content post from you tonight than?

Nano's Thoughts:

AmeliaLi's "Lynch all Lurkers" strategy is a horrible Idea. Thus, my vote is on her.

The rest of the game seems like just noise.

[Sir Tornado]

I'm just wondering how voting for myself is anti-town? If I'm mafia, why would I want to vote for myself? What would be the benefit of that?

This quote still screams a big, WHAT, from me. I think the exchange after that from klopy was enough to warrant "what are you doing" BTW, I did confirm in a pm to the mod 8)

I will metagame here a bit. In another game, Kloprev self voted, got lynched on page 2(!) and turned out to be a doctor.

So, my suspicions on him have lifted. I would also keep my eye on whoever tries to push for Kloprev lynch. He is the perfect candidate for the scum to make a scapegoat of and claim he seemed scummy if/when he turns out to be town the next day.

[AmeliaLi]

Okay. Quick post to say I'm here. X.x I've been painting my pool all weekend and it continues tonight. Now onto reading what I've missed.

[ryan]

I'm just wondering how voting for myself is anti-town? If I'm mafia, why would I want to vote for myself? What would be the benefit of that?

This quote still screams a big, WHAT, from me. I think the exchange after that from klopy was enough to warrant "what are you doing" BTW, I did confirm in a pm to the mod 8)

I will metagame here a bit. In another game, Kloprev self voted, got lynched on page 2(!) and turned out to be a doctor.

So, my suspicions on him have lifted. I would also keep my eye on whoever tries to push for Kloprev lynch. He is the perfect candidate for the scum to make a scapegoat of and claim he seemed scummy if/when he turns out to be town the next day.

That is still no guarantee he's a town role in this setup. Anytime you vote yourself it's a rather stupid move.

[AmeliaLi]

With 7 to lynch, I think it'd be safe for me to put my vote on AmeliaLi! She's the most suspicious right now. Sir Tornado hasn't said anything in a while, has he?

Unvote. Vote AmeliaLi

Okay. To start off this seems like a bit of a bandwagon vote to me, seeing as how everyone thinks my 'Lynch The Lukers' strategoy was awfully scumy, and I do agree, but I will resate it was just a joke.

So, my suspicions on him have lifted. I would also keep my eye on whoever tries to push for Kloprev lynch. He is the perfect candidate for the scum to make a scapegoat of and claim he seemed scummy if/when he turns out to be town the next day.

Or they will use me as a scapegoat because I've done things that are awfully anti-town, and I look back and am wondering what the hell I was thinking. But it has been said and I can't go back to change that.

With 7 to lynch, I think it'd be safe for me to put my vote on AmeliaLi! She's the most suspicious right now. Sir Tornado hasn't said anything in a while, has he?

Does this seem a little strange to anyone? . I've rarely seen anyone say "I'd think it'd be safe" before they vote before. It seems kind of like an attempt to place a vote that would not result in his being blamed if AmeliaLi turned out to be town. This is vaguely scummy, in my opinion. What are the thoughts of others on this matter?

Emphisis on the vaguely. *points to reason stated two quotes above*

I think that's all that I need to say right now.

[Sir Tornado]

I'm just wondering how voting for myself is anti-town? If I'm mafia, why would I want to vote for myself? What would be the benefit of that?

This quote still screams a big, WHAT, from me. I think the exchange after that from klopy was enough to warrant "what are you doing" BTW, I did confirm in a pm to the mod 8)

I will metagame here a bit. In another game, Kloprev self voted, got lynched on page 2(!) and turned out to be a doctor.

So, my suspicions on him have lifted. I would also keep my eye on whoever tries to push for Kloprev lynch. He is the perfect candidate for the scum to make a scapegoat of and claim he seemed scummy if/when he turns out to be town the next day.

That is still no guarantee he's a town role in this setup. Anytime you vote yourself it's a rather stupid move.

I agree that it is stupid. But, stupid =/= scum.

Lynching a scum is better than lynching a townie who does stupid mistakes.

[ryan]

I would hope that he wouldn't have a power role. Somebody asking about voting themself that has a power role is just a role that isn't going to help us later. IF he is scum, I'm sure his partners have to be bouncing their heads off their desks

[AmeliaLi]

I would hope that he wouldn't have a power role. Somebody asking about voting themself that has a power role is just a role that isn't going to help us later. IF he is scum, I'm sure his partners have to be bouncing their heads off their desks

Yeah... If he is scum, the town might actually have an advantage. If he has a power role: Have fun killing us off, scum.

[Jester]

I keep reading different posts over and over, but there are just too many for me to base my opinion about anything. How do you keep notes? What do you write down and what do you not write down?

For every post that seems to say something interesting to me, I write down the post number, whether I think the post makes them town, scum, or is just a data point, and a short note regarding what I think about that post. For instance, for this post (and your post 179), I wrote down:

"klopyrev, Maybe Scum, 162: Spends all of his time asking newbie Qs instead of playing"

I find it particularly useful for writing down who defends whom, who attacks whom, and sometimes who votes for whom. Mafia tend to attack the same targets without voting for them, hoping to inspire others to do so.

The single scummiest thing said and you consider her town?

Yep. Townies under pressure say the scummiest things, in my experience... way more scummy things than actual scum would say. Thanks for your post! Very interesting stuff.

How did curious hop on the deadline wagon in post 131? Wishful thinking?

This is quite a good catch. In retrospect, curious's 131 is extremely scummy: he lashes out at Lowell without actually voting for him, then when the Amelia backlash started, 20-odd posts later he jumps on Amelia's back instead. Gonna make it official:

FOS: curiouskarmadog

. Excellent catch, Numenorean. I also agree with you that the Sir Tornado/AmeliaLi thing is a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing. As I said, I'm much more interested in those that have been jumping on that band-wagon than Amelia herself.

I'm now comfortable with the idea of lynching either Nanosauromo or curiouskarmadog and will switch my vote as needed. For now, it remains on Nano. He still has posted the least amount of content in the game.

Anyone think Ryan is being too townie?

This, though? Yeah, I agree with the others. I'm not sure there's any such thing.

Okay. I just re read through all my posts, and holy shit, I'm acting Anti-Town.

Look who just joined the conversation. How about jumping back into the game by describing who you think is acting scummy besides yourself, and who you think is acting more townish?

Ryan's aggressive scumhunting might be making some of the Mafia feel nervous, and they'd be eager to jump on any suspicions voiced by some other player.

Yep. This is why I also tend to play pretty aggressively as a townie. I haven't survived a game of MS yet as a townie, but I find an aggressive play style works for the town as a whole. By the time I'm dead, reading my back posts always turns up scum.

It seems kind of like an attempt to place a vote that would not result in his being blamed if AmeliaLi turned out to be town. This is vaguely scummy, in my opinion.

It was extremely scummy, yes. But klopyrev's play style is so erratic that it'd hard to tell whose side he was on even if you knew for sure.

a repeat of his 154

Is nobody else worried about this? We're at post 212, and Nano's posted exactly four of them: one random vote, one "I'm here", and two "AmeliaLi OMG SCUM lynch all lurkers OBVIOUS!!!111!!"

Absolutely nothing

Kison, please prod (or better still, replace) Indy

. He hasn't posted a single thing since post 63, more than a week ago.

And I'm caught up again. I'm comfortable with a curiouskarmadog or Nano lynch. I'm certain at least one is scum, and maybe both. I look forward to seeing Lowell's post today. As of this moment, I think ryan and Numenorean are probably town, followed by Fireball and AmeliaLi. I think klopyrev is probably an insane townie. Lowell and Indy haven't said enough for me to form an opinion, which makes me very nervous about them with 200 posts in the books. Dral and Sir Tornado are in the middle, though Dral's repetition of curiouskarmadog's 99 in his own 151 is still a little worrisome to me.

[ryan]

Anyone think Ryan is being too townie?

LOL. Can you clarify how somebody can be "too townie?" That made me laugh when I first read it.

Is a logical fallacy called Too Townie. It's probably unintentional, but you should be aware of it.

I am aware of the fallacy "too townie". That's why I used that phrase.

My comment was meant to be humorous for the more experienced players, but it was mostly meant as a trap for inexperienced scum.

Ryan's aggressive scumhunting might be making some of the Mafia feel nervous, and they'd be eager to jump on any suspicions voiced by some other player.

Even after you two had mentioned the fallacy, a fish still nibbled at the bait:

Ryan has asked all the good questions and I agree with the whole he's acting too-twon. But he hasn't given me reason to say the too-town thing is really bad. I've seen what he's done first hand!

I don't know what to make of this fish. Is Ryan acting scummy or isn't he? The word "too" means "to an excessive extent or degree; beyond what is desirable, fitting, or right". That means "too townie" is bad, right? AmeliaLi is not really making sense.

I still am not a big fan of setting "traps" in mafia games as more times than not you get a townie who gets himself sucked into it and than we end up lynching a townie because he made the wrong move at the wrong time. I agree with Jester that I do find you to be doing pro town moves, but this one wasn't your finest.

[Nanosauromo]

a repeat of his 154

Is nobody else worried about this? We're at post 212, and Nano's posted exactly four of them: one random vote, one "I'm here", and two "AmeliaLi OMG SCUM lynch all lurkers OBVIOUS!!!111!!"

I haven't posted much because I don't have much to post. Do you want me to start making stuff up?

[ryan]

a repeat of his 154

Is nobody else worried about this? We're at post 212, and Nano's posted exactly four of them: one random vote, one "I'm here", and two "AmeliaLi OMG SCUM lynch all lurkers OBVIOUS!!!111!!"

I haven't posted much because I don't have much to post. Do you want me to start making stuff up?

No but we would appreciate some suspicions, information, content from you.

[MightyFireball]

Hmmm.... I'm currently under the impression that Nano isn't so much scum as he just has a strange play style. I highly doubt that scum would be so openly saying that they aren't contributing. However, I would like to see some more analysis from him. Also, Dral hasn't said anything in a while. A little something from him would be cool as well.

[curiouskarmadog]

How did curious hop on the deadline wagon in post 131? Wishful thinking?

This is quite a good catch. In retrospect, curious's 131 is extremely scummy: he lashes out at Lowell without actually voting for him, then when the Amelia backlash started, 20-odd posts later he jumps on Amelia's back instead. Gonna make it official:

FOS: curiouskarmadog

. Excellent catch, Numenorean. I also agree with you that the Sir Tornado/AmeliaLi thing is a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing. As I said, I'm much more interested in those that have been jumping on that band-wagon than Amelia herself.

I'm now comfortable with the idea of lynching either Nanosauromo or curiouskarmadog and will switch my vote as needed. For now, it remains on Nano. He still has posted the least amount of content in the game.

Anyone think Ryan is being too townie?

This, though? Yeah, I agree with the others. I'm not sure there's any such thing.

Okay. I just re read through all my posts, and holy shit, I'm acting Anti-Town.

Look who just joined the conversation. How about jumping back into the game by describing who you think is acting scummy besides yourself, and who you think is acting more townish?

Ryan's aggressive scumhunting might be making some of the Mafia feel nervous, and they'd be eager to jump on any suspicions voiced by some other player.

Yep. This is why I also tend to play pretty aggressively as a townie. I haven't survived a game of MS yet as a townie, but I find an aggressive play style works for the town as a whole. By the time I'm dead, reading my back posts always turns up scum.

It seems kind of like an attempt to place a vote that would not result in his being blamed if AmeliaLi turned out to be town. This is vaguely scummy, in my opinion.

It was extremely scummy, yes. But klopyrev's play style is so erratic that it'd hard to tell whose side he was on even if you knew for sure.

a repeat of his 154

Is nobody else worried about this? We're at post 212, and Nano's posted exactly four of them: one random vote, one "I'm here", and two "AmeliaLi OMG SCUM lynch all lurkers OBVIOUS!!!111!!"

Absolutely nothing

Kison, please prod (or better still, replace) Indy

. He hasn't posted a single thing since post 63, more than a week ago.

And I'm caught up again. I'm comfortable with a curiouskarmadog or Nano lynch. I'm certain at least one is scum, and maybe both. I look forward to seeing Lowell's post today. As of this moment, I think ryan and Numenorean are probably town, followed by Fireball and AmeliaLi. I think klopyrev is probably an insane townie. Lowell and Indy haven't said enough for me to form an opinion, which makes me very nervous about them with 200 posts in the books. Dral and Sir Tornado are in the middle, though Dral's repetition of curiouskarmadog's 99 in his own 151 is still a little worrisome to me.

Honestly, I dont have much of a defense for this. At the time, in another thread the Mod said he might force a deadline (that I felt was early)..mixed the two games up..once Ryan said "friday" on this thread I thought it was this one...I said "Pending" versus "Friday" because I could not immeidately find the post that gave a date, but thought for sure it was this one. At any rate, that is a lame excuse, I know...but it is the truth.

[curiouskarmadog]

furthermore, I am comfortable with my vote, I would like to see more content from her...and Lowell..

[ryan]

Lowell and Dral would be a couple that I'd like to hear who they find guilty. I understand that Lowell seems to be MIA right now but something when he gets back on would be appreciated

[Dral]

Also, Dral hasn't said anything in a while. A little something from him would be cool as well.

I am seeking a replacement. So don't hold anything I didn't say against them.

unvote

[ryan]

Well that clears that up, how about you Lowell?

[Nanosauromo]

Hmmm.... I'm currently under the impression that Nano isn't so much scum as he just has a strange play style.

It's true that I am known for being strange.

[Numenorean7]

I still am not a big fan of setting "traps" in mafia games as more times than not you get a townie who gets himself sucked into it and than we end up lynching a townie because he made the wrong move at the wrong time. I agree with Jester that I do find you to be doing pro town moves, but this one wasn't your finest.

I do agree, traps aren't all they're cracked up to be. But it occurred to me that the Mafia would be getting nervous about your scumhunting, so I thought I'd give it a shot. But I'm the last person to put too much credence in traps and who falls into them. They can be useful as supplementary evidence against someone who is already under suspicion, but shouldn't be the basis of anything.

212: nice post, Jester.

My current scumorder:
Indy
AmeliaLi
Nanosauramo
klopyrev
Lowell
Sir Tornado
Dral
curiouskarmadog
Jester
MightyFireball
ryan
Numenorean7

I second the request for a prod/replacement on Indy, as well as a possible prod on Dral.
Lowell, weren't you supposed to come back today?

[Sir Tornado]

From my notes on AmeliaLi:

The

red

are the posts I think are scummy. The

bold red

are the posts I think are too scummy.

Green

posts are posts that I think makes someone pro-townie

Blue

posts (or parts of posts) are the posts with WIFOM arguments.

Page 1

1. Confirm
2. NCR
3.

Dice roll -- messed up

4. Random vote Sir Tornado

Page 2

5. NCR
6. Asks Klopyrev reason for voting self
7.

Follows Sir Tornado in unvoting the random vote

8.

Accepts Klopyrev's reason for self voting

Page 3

9.

Calls Klopyrev highly suspicious for self voting

10. NRC
11. Comments about no one giving her any reason to vote for
12.

Defends Kloprev for voting for self

-- contradiction to her post 8.
13. Agrees with MightyFireBall that there is no reason to vote for Klopyrev
14. Defends accusation from Ryan for following Sir Tornado by saying she randomly voted
15. Tries to defend her random vote.

Page 4

16. Tries to explain her "sitting around" and trying to observe.
17. NRC
18. Asks other people to post more often
19.

Says her unvoting her random voting after Sir T was a coincidence and then says she voted after seeing Sir T unvote and thinking "

that's a great idea

"

-- contradicting herself in the same post! (more on this later in the post)

Page 5

20. Defends herself for being defensive.

Seems to be trying not to act scummy

21. Edit for the last post
22. Calls Klopyrev observant.
23.

Realizes that she screwed up the dice for random vote

24. More on dice thing
25. Dice thing
26. NRC

Page 6

27. Asks Nanosauromo to contribute more
28.

Advocates the policy of getting rid of lurkers

because

"they aren't trully here anyways

29. Defends her earlier comment about getting rid of lurkers.
30. Backtracks and says

Threatening to Lynch them is also a good way to prod them....

31. Says she hates to throw votes around
32.

Agrees with Ryan about pressurising lurkers, but insists on lynching them.

33.

Says she was joking about lynching lurkers,

and says we need to pressurize them instead

Page 7

34. Agrees that she has been acting anti-town.

Page 8

nothing

Page 9

35. NRC
36. Accuses Klopyrev of bandwagoning her for her "lynch all lurkers" post and

says the scum could possibly make use of her as scapegoat.

37.

Comments on possibilities of Klopyrev having a power role

-- Fishing for power roles? From what I have seen of Klopyrev, he would come out telling everyone whether he has a power role or not (

DON'T DO THAT Klopyrev!) if he is not a scum after reading that post.

Which makes me happy with a

FOS AmeliaLi

Questions I want answered by AmeliaLi failing which FOS would turn into a vote:

1) In Post 44 you unvoted along with me. In it's explanation, you stated in Post 90 that your unvote was "coincidence". However, you say in the same post, that you unvoted after seeing me unvote. Now...

Coincidence = We just happened to be unvoting at the same time

Unvoting after seeing me unvote and thinking "

That's a good idea

" = Trying to follow me.

Two totally different things. What exactly were you doing?

2. In Post 46 you accepted Klopyrev's reasons for self voting. However, in Post 51 you say

it is highly suspicious

.

Why the sudden change of heart in the space of 5 posts and 212 minutes?

3. In Post 135 you say "

Let's lynch them

(lurkers)". Yet, quite soon, on being questioned by Ryan you change your position and say "

I was joking when I said lynch them

"?

This really doesn't make any sense at all to me. Sorry. I hope you can tell me how to make sense of it all.