Mafia 60: Face-to-Face - Game over!

[Thesp]

Thesp, could you refresh my memory and give (or repost) your thoughts on everyone who is not Cogito Ergo Sum?

Sure, I'll let you know where I'm at. I find Mgm very disturbing lately, I'm reasonably comfortable with you and Patrick, and uncertain about MBL (though I find his effort put in today to be very pro-town). I'm as certain as I could be that CES is scum, and I think much will be re-evaluated tomorrow. (Or, if there's no tomorrow, we're screwed and oh well.) Let me know if you need more.

Thesp, do you honestly expect me to compare possible game-deciding votes to random day one bandwagoning?

I'm not sure you read the game I linked to. It wasn't random D1 bandwagonning (I quicklynched with my vote, and none of the votes on the wagon were random), and it very well could have been game-deciding had I been wrong.

I voted the way I did to test the firmness of your vote.

This feels...

weird

.

Thesp and Patrick aren't really trying very hard, probably because if they're town they're lazy and if they're scum they don't want to do anything to jeopardize this "safe status" conferred upon them by our collective lack of suspicion.

I think I need to say something to this, because it's been brought up a lot. I feel like I have tried quite a lot in this game, though there are certainly others that have exceeded the amount of participation/effort I've been able to provide. Lately there have been a lot of mafia commitments eating up my time, and between taking over Open Game mod responsibilities and not getting night-killed in enough games recently, I haven't had the time I'd like to put into some games. Nonetheless, I've been calling out things when they catch my eye, though certainly not everythign that should catch my eye actually does. I'm sorry for not posting like I'd like to lately, and periodically in the thread. I'm trying as hard as I can with what I can. And I do feel I've caught scum in CES. (Granted, I'm pondering one other possibility, but I think it's most likely by a lot that CES is scum.)

[MrBuddyLee]

MBL, are you saying if you'd seen Mgm come online you'd have removed the vote?

I was I guess I'd say 80% comfortable with a CES-Mgm pairing, but if Glork hadn't posted so quickly I'd probably have removed the vote anyway before Mgm arrived on the scene, just so we could have another day of discussion on the events. (He usually posts around 1AM my time.) I kind of expected Glork to post and make SOME comment, but his unvote was not entirely expected.

Most of my doubts revolved around Glork-Mgm or Glork-CES. I'm kind of pleased that the tactic seems to have eliminated Glork-Mgm, because that was, to me, the more likely of the two alternate possibilities.

[Glork]

No, Thesp, that covers it well enough. That's the general sentiment I had gotten from glancing at your posts, but I wanted you to spell it out more explicitly.

I had a moment in scumchat this evening, and I don't know if it's revealing or more muddling. In a 5-player LyLo, I voted or Shea, and Korejora immediately put a second vote on him. I unvoted, fearing quicklynch, but she claimed to be a cop with a guilty on him. Ultimately, I decided that she was legit, but she was lynched anyway and we (the town) lost.

It seemed disturbingly applicable to this game. I still don't *like* MBL's vote -- if Patrick or MgM had been up and had been scum with MBL, the game could have ended right there. I hadn't checked the thread, because I'd been conversing with Eep on AIM, but I still fear that MBL's vote was designed to allow a scumbuddy to drop a quicklynch. It came a full 3.5 hours after my vote, at a time when I should have already gone to sleep (again, delayed only because of AIM conversating)... which would have left little (if any) chance of stopping a possible quicklynch.


I think that I'm going to hold my vote until MBL has come to a firm decision and placed his vote. I know this'll raise some eyebrows (particularly coming from MBL himself), but I want to be one of the ones making a possible game-ending decision.

[MrBuddyLee]

To be honest, Glork, I hadn't seen your vote until three or so hours had passed. I was frustrated by lack of insight shown in the thread and was getting closer to placing such a vote myself. I thought about it for a bit and decided to place my vote and see what transpired. I was refreshing every five minutes or so, not expecting to see an Mgm post, and hoping to see a Glork post.

Glork, if you were really so paranoid about Patrick+MBL or Mgm+MBL, why'd you place your vote on CES? It would have been trivial for scuMBL to wait until 4am US time and pile on for the win. I'm pretty sure you know I'm a night owl. Your concern and your reaction to my post really don't seem proportional to your voting action.

[MrBuddyLee]

Mgm and CES are on me.
Thesp's on CES.
Glork, Patrick and I aren't voting.

If I vote CES now, the following scumteams could hammer:
Mgm-Glork (seemingly eliminated the other night)
Glork-Patrick (eliminated by lack of hammer on me)
Patrick-Mgm (not seeing it at all)

vote: CES

[Mgm]

Let's see how that fits into my spreadsheet. Now where is that link I posted?

Mgm, do you still find me to be most suspicious at this point?

Yes, I do.

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

MrBuddyLee: 2 (Mgm CES)
Cogito Ergo Sum: 2 (Thesp MBL)

Not voting: Patrick Glork

It will take

4

votes to lynch!

[Patrick]

Here still. Assuming the game won't be ending in the next 24-48 hours, which I don't think it will, we will know that at least one of MBL/CES has to be scum.

Mgm, will you be linking us to the spreadsheet?

Still most suspicious of CES, and he hasn't done anything that makes me feel better about him. I think he's close to given up.

[Glork]

Well, Patrick. Since you seem to trust me, and I think I trust you, I figure we should be working together to figure this out... given that we're controlling the lynch.

Is there anything else you wanted to hear from the other players? Any specific questions, general thoughts/comments?

I personally am still split almost 50/50... I'd say I'm leaning about 55% towards voting CES. I really think that, at this point, we might just have to suck it up and come to a decision. I want to re-read parts of the game again (especially around the CDB lynch) before making such a decision, but I don't know if that's going to be possible in the next couple of days.

[Mgm]

Mgm, will you be linking us to the spreadsheet?

Didn't I do that already? I'll work the possible couples that are less likely due to lack of quicklynches into the list and link to it tomorrow.

[Patrick]

Waves hi, as a formality.

Glork, I'll have a think about it. Just getting in this post quickly.

[Patrick]

Is there anything else you wanted to hear from the other players? Any specific questions, general thoughts/comments?

I'll let you read what parts you want to read and I wouldn't mind seeing Mgm's thing as well. Actually I would be pretty interested in seeing Mgm's thing.

** Comment on laziness from before: I don't think Thesp has been playing any lazier than normal, nor am I playing lazier than normal. In fact I've put more into this game than my average game. The laziness that bothers me is mostly CES. If I had one/two votes on me, especially from varying people, and with others expressing suspicion of me, I'd be freaking out and trying my hardest to convince people that I shouldn't be lynched and that they should take me out of quicklynch range. Maybe that reflects just different playstyle between me and CES rather than a possible different alignment, but it feels like he's acting in the same that ChannelDelibird was acting when we had nailed him.**

MBL's analysis today is pretty good, and looks fairly protown, but I know he's thorough as scum and I wouldn't put it past him to do it as scum as well as town. I think if he is protown then voting CES like that was not the cleverest idea in the world, but equally if he is scum with Mgm then it would also have been a really sloppy attempt to snatch victory when just waiting a day or two would have been completely safe.

The pairing that worries me the most (after CES/Mgm which is currently my top one) is actually CES/MBL rather than Mgm/MBL. I think I mentioned before that there seems to be alot of genuine friction between MBL and Mgm. MBL pushed Mgm hard day 1 when he wasn't a top candidate, and let's remember if Mgm is scum he's the godfather. Would a goon set out to bus the GF early? I could see a GF busing heavily at a pinch because he can't be touched by cops but a goon busing the GF seems risky when you don't know what the poweroles are. And again later, there just seems to be alot of genuine angst between them. I'm still not too happy with Mgm's opening to today, because it looked pre planned, and not at all how I felt starting the day, and apparently not how Glork (who I think is protown) felt at the start of the day, which may indicate a different mindset. Pre planned busing or pre planned attempt to frame MBL with a slightly off nightkill? Or just unusual playstyle bleh. Glork, if you have some link you can see between Mgm and MBL, other than MBL's vote for CES, then you might as well tell us. For MBL/CES though, there is some distance between them but not as much, could be contrived. I'm not going to worry that much about it right now because in this case lynching CES is absolutely fine anyway. If CES were to be lynched as a godfather, MBL is very likely the other scum.

Taking it one step at a time, CES seems like the best lynch to me. How worried are you about that MBL/Thesp pairing you were talking about before? Because I've taken it mainly that CES has been blowing steam, but again, if there's some link between them then now is the time, we might not get another chance. Thesp has seemed pretty genuinely protown to me for a while now though.

[Mgm]

I'll let you read what parts you want to read and I wouldn't mind seeing Mgm's thing as well. Actually I would be pretty interested in seeing Mgm's thing.

Maybe you would sound less like a dirty old man if you called it a 'spreadsheet' instead of 'my thing'...

[Patrick]

[Thesp]

Maybe that reflects just different playstyle between me and CES rather than a possible different alignment, but it feels like he's acting in the same that ChannelDelibird was acting when we had nailed him.

I felt this

exact

way, I just knew how CES reacted the last time I compared him to CDB on something.

[Mgm]

Great! I don't know how I managed to do it, but I lost the spreadsheet file.
I'll go hunt for it, but I'm pretty sure it's not gonna get posted today.
My apologies. I hope I'll have it tracked down by monday.

[Thesp]

Great! I don't know how I managed to do it, but I lost the spreadsheet file.
I'll go hunt for it, but I'm pretty sure it's not gonna get posted today.
My apologies. I hope I'll have it tracked down by monday.

You could save yourself the effort and vote CES instead right now. You'd have all night to reconstruct your spreadsheet.

[Mgm]

Or I could end the game and lose it for the town.
I do note that CES' lack of rebuttals is suspicious, but I'd rather take some more time to go over things again than to make the wrong decision.

[Glork]

So... I've read over the before, during, and after of the CDB lynch, and both CES and MBL seemed to backdoor their ways onto it. MBL was apparently trying a little strategery, what with the whole "I thought Glork was crumbing cop" thing. I think that normally, I'd have a big issue with that kind of argument. However, since it's the exact effect that I intended, I wouldn't see it as being being nearly as big a deal, assuming I could trust MBL's claimed thought process.



I still think CES is scum.... I think.

[Patrick]

Well. With Mgm and Glork not speedlynching we know at least one of MBL/CES is scum.

I would just add that although I agree they both kind of backdoored their ways onto it, I think Mgm did so as well, just he started a little late.

[MrBuddyLee]

Glork, if you were really so paranoid about Patrick+MBL or Mgm+MBL, why'd you place your vote on CES? It would have been trivial for scuMBL to wait until 4am US time and pile on for the win. I'm pretty sure you know I'm a night owl. Your concern and your reaction to my post really don't seem proportional to your voting action.

[Glork]

I answered that already. I wasn't "so paranoid" about it until I saw you smack that vote down. Pay attention, MBL.

[Thesp]

Or I could end the game and lose it for the town.
I do note that CES' lack of rebuttals is suspicious, but I'd rather take some more time to go over things again than to make the wrong decision.

OH MY HOLY GOODNESS HOW MUCH MORE TIME COULD YOU NEED.

I think you're stalling. What did you think of his attacks on me when I was pursuing CDB re: claim?

[Mgm]

Here is the spreadsheet as promised: http://www.glpics.com/mgm/mafia/Mafia60.xls

(The latest bits that made me mention the sheet again aren't included yet.)

[Patrick]

Feh. I don't think there's much going on anymore, so I'll put a third vote on CES in about 30 hours unless something big happens. Would have said 24 except I know I probably won't be able to reach a computer at that time. I'm fairly convinced he's scum who's just given up and most of my likely scumpairs include him.