Mini 442 - Beast Wars Mafia Game Over

[Aimee]

I read the wiki recently, and I don't really understand. Is the town the Maximal people, and the scum the other Peramoti-oties, or whatever? I am totally confused. Dusk, we need you!

Maximals and Predacons vs. Vok aliens and maybe other unknown baddies

So the Maximals are aligned with the Predacons? Or am I just getting confused?

Also, the game would be very unbalanced, in my opinion, to have three killing roles (Mafia, Vig and SK).

There has to either be another vig or a SK. Two vigs are unlikely, and 2 mafia groups of 2 is improbable since we lynched a

godfather

(are we to assume there are two godfathers...?). The most probable scenario is mafia and SK.

Also, Aimee, you fail to remember that Jordan claimed role-blocker. His claim makes even more sense now when you think of the game's balance.

Some good points there, Albert. I actually agree now - I think there are three killing groups, as I think it is unlikely that ryan would kill HH (I remember him saying that they were pro-town.)

The way that the mod refers tp the Maximal camp and not the Predacons perhaps indicates a frightening prospect - could it be that there ARE two Mafia groups, and it is the Predacons vs Voks vs Maximals?

Jordan, obviously you are unable to quote your PM, but seeing as your role is a Predacon, does it indicate that you will win alongside the Maximals?

[JordanA24]

Jordan, obviously you are unable to quote your PM, but seeing as your role is a Predacon, does it indicate that you will win alongside the Maximals?

It says I win when all anti-town players are eliminated.

[Dusk]

There's something I'm wondering, when the godfather dies, does another scum get promoted to godfather ?

Yes. It keeps going to the next in command until they're all dead. That's the way I've always played it. And the second in command is who Pm's in the Kill.

I read the wiki recently, and I don't really understand. Is the town the Maximal people, and the scum the other Peramoti-oties, or whatever? I am totally confused. Dusk, we need you!

Maximals and Predacons vs. Vok aliens and maybe other unknown baddies

So the Maximals are aligned with the Predacons? Or am I just getting confused?

I understand your confusion Aimee. The Maximals and Predacons are always have the main conflict int he show.

They are at a truce to deal with the greater threat.

We can trust the Predacons, not only because most of us are trusting Jordan right now but because I will come out and say this much also,

I am a Predacon, too

On the Maximals' and Predacons' home planet Cybertron these two factions have been in peacetime. But when Megatron, a Predacon criminal, steals a warcruiser and takes off for a major power source with a small band of other Predacons, it is Optimus Primal's crew of explorers that must follow. Optimus Primal and his crew are Maximals.

These small bands of Maximals and Predacons start up a fresh war unbeknownst to the rest of the populus on Cybertron. Often times in the show the characters would happen upon strange ruins and landmasses that defy nature, such as a floating mountian or island. The aliens, later named the Vok, created these landmasses and ruin. It turns out this planet was prehistoric Earth and it was the Alien's project.

The Aliens were not on the planet, though. When their various landmasses and ruins across Earth were disturbed by the battles, a signal was dispatched to them off in space. The small group of Maximals and Predacons at the end of the first season were forced to call a truce in their own war to deal with the greater threat of the Vok returning to Earth. The Vok is bent on destroying the entire planet with the Transformers on it because their experiment was disturbed.

The first way the Aliens attempted to destroy Earth was from overheating a large concentration of the energy source that originally attracted Megatron called energon. Energon was everywhere!

You all awaken to a new day. However, the day isn't going to give you a happy welcome. In the Maximal base, Rhinox seems to have been scorched beyond repair. During a patrol, it seems that Dinobot has gone missing

So I think that the Vok is still somewhat Alive and active because they may not have blown up the planet as intended (Ep 24-26 Before the Storm and Other Voices pt 1 and 2) but Rhinox did get scorched in the process.

Also, in the show, the Vok is some kind of two headed floating being. http://www.bwtf.com/bw/tvshow/cc/vok/vok2.jpgMaybe the Vok is played by more than one Mafia member, and just because Fraggle is gone, doesn't mean the character is entirely.

Here's better site than Wikipedia for info on the characters and show: Ben Yee's Transformer website http://www.bwtf.com/bw/tvshow/

[Aimee]

Thanks Dusk! And what do you make of everything that has happened recently in this game?

[chaotic_diablo]

=Confused= replaces Primoris

[Dusk]

Salutations, Confused!


(Wasn't Charolette a charismatic lil' spider?)

[Dusk]

Don't think Ryan killed HH, Dinobot's primary weapon was a sword, nothing to do with fire.

Unless we have a second vig, there is almost certainly a serial killer among us. One of the main reasons I'm posting normally is I'm the prime SK suspect right now. You might think that's kinda cool, but I don't wanna be lynched based on some of my music preference 8)

You know, Albert, I was about to vote you for seeming a little too much like Fraggle with those songs until you said this. Fraggle copied you anyway. It's good you recognize the resemblance points to you as a suspect. My suspicion is drifting elsewhere for now.

I also agree with Jordan on the idea that Dinobot didn't kill Rhinox. However, Dinobot was also known to shoot laserbeams from his eyes though, much like Scott "Cyclops" Summers, capable of leaving a transformer scortched. That said, to me, it doesn't fit Dinobot, the former Predacon that defected to the Maximal side. But I would've been remiss not to mention said powers.

Also if we are to believe the Vig (Dinobot) accidently killed the Doc (Rhinox) such a situation would have to say that only the vigilante acted last night or else only the vigilante powers went through. It doesn't make sense that the Mafia wouldn't seize the opportunity to take someone out when they knew they had lost their Godfather. So we can assume they tried last Night.

If we are still to believe the Vig kill went through on Rhinox (HackerHack the Doc), Perhaps Rhinox managed to Protect someone before he was killed, or the Skorponok (Jordan the RB?) got lucky. Either of those strokes of luck for the Town says to me we should have seen hint of it in the opening Day2 post. We didn't; it was just very clear cut who died.

Scortching definitely says Mafia Aliens to me. I'm going with the idea that the Mafia killed Rhinox (HackerHack our Doc). I think Dinobot was taken down by a SK.

Rampage, the character, could be an SK, as Jordan surmises (post544) but my money is on a different character, I'd rather not say yet for sake of later RC's. However, to your credit, Jordan, If Dinobot "dissapared" then that's in line with the character Rampage who was introduced much like a scary movie monster coming out of the darkness to attack people ("ep. 34 Bad Sparks"). Whoever the SK is I think that's what got ryan (Dinobot Vig).

[Dusk]

Just thought of this question for the Mod.

Mod, do all Night actions go through?

The answer might help us be certain of what happened last night.

Alright, no more flooding. Goodnight.

[chaotic_diablo]

Whether player remembers, forgets, or chooses to or not to send in a night choice will affect the game in significant ways. Therefore all night choices are confidential. What occured during the night must be left to the creativity, imagination, and delusions of our dear players.

[=Confused=]

Okay, I made it though the game finally and here's what I have...(a two parter)

First off Albert's faking of a post restriction, while funny and entertaining for him has left me pulling my hair out. He pretty much has a clean slate as far as in game actions from the start of day two as we can't really pin him down on anything. We can try and figure out what we thought he meant with his votes, but then he can always come out and be all like... “You're just misrepresenting me and my intentions” and we won't really know if that truly is the case... so yeah, blah to your day one play Albert!

That said, I highly doubt he is apart of the scum group after Fraggle so humorously tried to copy his lyric posting ways. But still...BLAH!

I would like to actually put a

Vote: TrustGossip

and here is why.

He pretty much freaked out at the possibility of getting teffc replaced early on. What the big deal was I don't understand. Okay he had just voted for her, which is a plus point for him but his reaction afterwards just felt more like a he tried to establish some early distancing and then used the replacement as an excuse to get away from his vote.

Oh wow, I just noticed on the front page. teffc is being replaced? I can't see anything positive coming from this...

I'm always worried about a replacement for possible mafia. It involves reanalysing a playstyle, and if the replacement is smart, they'll be able to absolve teffc of anything and adopt a fervently pro-town status when it was

obvious teffc couldn't handle her scum role.

It doesn't matter if the replacement is smart, it doesn't matter if they try and establish a pro town stance, it doesn't matter if the replacement has blue hair and a eye patch. If you really found Teffc to be the scummest player at that point in time, then the replacement would inherit that same level of suspicion (or close to it). I'm not saying that you shouldn't give the replacement a chance to talk, but you shouldn't just give up if you think your on to scum... Let them talk and

then

adjust your suspicion accordingly. NOT the other way round.

And I suppose that I should be the flagbearer for the case against teffc? It's in my best interest to oppose a possible quick lynch of ryan, only because I see

teffc's behavior as a greater evil.

And now she has free license to lurk because she is up for replacement.

Could we get a vote count and the status of the last replacement, mod?

The case against teffc is that the sum of her testimony is either; worthless (posting just for the sake of activity), vague (innumerable 'too' statements), or nonexistent (the long period of lurking until asking for a replacement).

But like I said earlier, her getting replaced is generally bad because now we have to wait for fraggle to post enough to analyse.

Unvote: teffc/Fragglescum

No you don't have to wait. Pressure is a good thing, unvoting does nothing for nobody here.

After unvoting here, TG does a good job of staying quite well in the middle ground of anything. The main argument is still between Ryan/Jordan and Lowell. TG posts a few times, sometimes wondering about Ryan...

ryan, you are seriously hindering me, oh my gosh. In case people haven't noticed this, but I tend to have a bit of an underdog complex. I tend to lean heavily against the first bandwagon being accurate. ryan, you made a few good points in the beginning against Lowell's incendiary and uncooperative playstyle, but your constant misinterpretation of people's posts is eroding my trust in you.

IGMEOY: ryan

I'm still trying to decide whether or not you're just a little overenthusiastic about finding scum, or you are one. Most of the rest of us *cough* *cough* are also trying to find scum, though maybe not as zealously as you are, to the point of a great deal of misreadings.

The crappy awful thing is that I don't think we'll really get anywhere if we still have those two lurkers and if Fraggle doesn't post more.

And sometimes about Lowell..

For the first time, I'm considering Lowell as scum.

All without casting another vote or any real hard opinions about either camp. Almost as if he was trying to play both sides of the fence.

Why isn't Lowell dead yet?

Probably has something to do with him promising to post on Tuesday and most of the town being unimpressed with the case you have made against him...

*clap clap clap*

But seriously, Jordan, if I doubted before, I don't now. Sweeny did an excellent rundown of your insane scum tactics.

@sweeny- It's hard to put my finger on why Aimee's post(s) looks scummy. Here's the best way I can describe it. The "blow-by-blow" post seems a little opinion-dry. As in, heavy on narration, but not really saying anything. The second post, "player-by-player", casts TOO WIDE a net for my taste. She doesn't want to exonerate anyone or implicate anyone. Not really.

It could be that she just doesn't have that many strong opinions. Which is why I didn't vote for her. But I would be remiss if I let that post slide with everyone saying how great it was without me mentioning my little bit of doubt.

It's posts like this that make me doubt my conscience.

On one hand, his reasonings on aimee are very astute and spot-on, indicating a healthy amount of pro-town suspicion on some scummy behavior. On the other hand, this information is only really revealed as Lowell senses that he's on the chopping block, and could be an attempt to throw suspicion on another person. Further more, it's somewhat convenient that he came up to the same opinion/yet non-opinion about aimee as I did.

However, Lowell's lucidity is making him increasingly less suspcious, while Jordan's lynch happy tactics make me decidedly

unhappy

.

Unvote: Vote JordanA24
IGMEOY: Lowell

Things that bug me about this post:
TG spends the whole post talking about Lowell and yet ends up voting Jordan.
He claims that Lowell basically echoed what he had already stated about aimee. Not true!

aimee, time will tell. I know you had finals and your summary was very helpful, but long summaries with commentary can be a scum tactic to shift suspicions and et. cetera. You're still neutral to me though, leaning towards town.

Does suggest a possible “scum tactic here” but it's hardly what Lowell was describing, in fact TG believes aimee to be more likely town than anything else. Also

aimee: she's this low on the list mainly because I feel like she'd be a much greater asset if she was just more active. I'm seeing her as a non-entity simply because there isn't that much she's provided that we can draw inferences from.

Suggests, to me at least, that TG actually liked her summery and would want to see more if she posted more. So my point here is that TG seemingly tried to discredit Lowell's opinion of aimee's post by trying to say he had already said it all before. Which not only is pretty much a lie (in my eyes) it also makes me wonder why he didn't just vote Lowell at this point if he truly believed he had said this? Very confusing indeed. Unless of course I'm missing the point where you DID say these things TG, if so please point me that way.

Basically TG gets my vote for his quick distancing from the teffc vote. Being non committal during the Ryan/Jordan/Lowell situation and for adding unneeded/unwarranted fuel to the Lowell fire. He seemed to want to fan the flames rather than really pin them down and go on the attack himself. He seems to be trying to make as few waves as possible, which I believe is a sign that he is just trying to fit in with the rest of the town rather than actively go out looking for scum himself.

[=Confused=]

As for other players I would really like to see/hear more from STD and even to some extent Aimee Even though she has been pretty active today, I got the feeling she was semi lurking around deadline time during my read. Dusk's quick 180 vote on Fraggle was very interesting and makes me wonder if she was helping to kill her buddy with the hopes of looking better today. Extensive theme knowledge which is good but she is down as my number two at the moment.

I really didn't like Jordan's way of going after Lowell, but if there is a SK in this game, it probably is more likely he is what he claims. Sweeny has felt quite pro town to me, with his line of questioning but by no means does he get a free pass. Lowell seemed to calm down towards the end of the day and I agreed with a lot of his posts when he chose to defend himself.

Here is my list. From most suspicious to least..

TrustGossip
Dusk
Albert B. Rampage
Save The Dragons
Aimee
Sweenytodd
JordanA24
Lowell
=Confused=

I understand that there is a case on me for replacing who I did. People who have already voted have said something like Primoris was neutral. I can see why there is suspicion on me, but Primoris basically went missing right when the first set of replacements came into the game. Basically he really didn't get that deep in the game, which could be why some of you think he was neutral. If there are any particular charges or questions I need to answer, please bring them to my attention.

Another thing before I forget

Well, I think Lowell is scum, but I'll only block someone if the town really think I should, it's best we have more than one person deciding if we should block someone, considering how potentially damaging it could be if I get it wrong.

Oh, should I be roleblocking anyone tonight?

And, if anyone's interested, I roleblocked StD last night.

A few questions Jordan
Why didn't you block Lowell if you thought he was scum?
Why did you chose STD to block last night?
Why did you chose to revel this information now? If STD is scum maybe you could have caught him in a lie

[Dusk]

These were copied and pasted from my notes. I'm so lazy. I'm sorry it took me so long... anyway as I've been saying Lowell is terribly suspicous to me

• Lowell retaliates with a vote for ryan who didn’t like the bandwagon on the newbie potential Townie
• Says screw this and votes someone who randomly voted him a while back
• Calls ryan’s strategy to Lynch quiet people “a dumb point,” “opportunism” Maybe a quiet person is in on it with him because lurkers can be detrimental, thus Ryan's strategy is not unfounded.
• Good Recap by Sweeny on 175, better one on 230 by Jordan
• Jordan Sweeny, and Ryan agree Lowell is scum. Over the Under, Ryan, JordanA24 all vote
• Got rid of bandwagon by questioning the validity of the bandwagon and not defending his scummy posts
o 1) "I wanted to get OTU's attention with that vote. Really, this bandwagon is so stupid it makes me crazy. One RANDOM vote (his only post so far this game), followed by ryan and jordan scumteam teaming up to get me to 3 votes. Ridiculous. I want OTU to OWN his vote on me or get lost. People won't realize just how scummy this bandwagon is until the random votes leave."
o 2) "I do find it strange that ryan and jordan would buddy up together so much if they were scum. But really, that's the ultimate in WIFOM (ooh, scum would NEVER be so obvious, so we're not scum). More importantly, I really think they thought I would be a quick, easy lynch and that everyone would rally around killing me, thus making their like-mindedness not so obvious in the midst of a mob. As it is, they can't get people to vote for me and they're becoming increasinly exposed." It's not terribly strange now that Ryan is a dead townie.

Now...

Other Thoughts:
I am not going to defend my vote for Fraggle further after this. I'm a little irritated that my catch on him is what got a couple of people to move off the fense. It turned out to be a good move for the Town and I look like Mafia for it. Okhams (sp?) Razor says the simplest explaination is normally the correct one. Can't it just be that I said what I meant and with my knowledge of the theme we got the Godfather Lynched on the first Day? It wasn't really a 180. I knew something was amiss with his posts. I thought it was just really bad playing. It turned out to be very bad Mafia slip-ups. I did realize a bit of desperation in Fraggles posts afterwards that I felt strongly enough about to leave my vote on. When Fraggle said he was Terrorsaur it was official. (I couldn't understand why he didnt just choose a Maximal. Too safe?)

Anyway, I think we could find more evidence on whom to Lynch next by looking to see if ryan and HackerHack were onto anyone. Maybe the Mafia felt most threatened by them. There's another point against Lowell.

Confused, thank you for that in depth analysis! I think Trust Gossip is looking incredibly suspicious, now. His/her posts were inconsistent in regards to teffc wh was replaced by Fraggle. Your thinking seems to be along the lines of mine in that looking at players in retrospect will give us new evidence with which to Lynch Scum. Still, I've been meaning to do this for a while--

VOTE: Lowell

[Dusk]

These were copied and pasted from my notes. I'm so lazy. I'm sorry it took me so long... anyway as I've been saying Lowell is terribly suspicous to me

• Lowell retaliates with a vote for ryan who didn’t like the bandwagon on the newbie potential Townie
• Says screw this and votes someone who randomly voted him a while back
• Calls ryan’s strategy to Lynch quiet people “a dumb point,” “opportunism” Maybe a quiet person is in on it with him because lurkers can be detrimental, thus Ryan's strategy is not unfounded.
• Good Recap by Sweeny on 175, better one on 230 by Jordan
• Jordan Sweeny, and Ryan agree Lowell is scum. Over the Under, Ryan, JordanA24 all vote
• Got rid of bandwagon by questioning the validity of the bandwagon and not defending his scummy posts
o 1) "I wanted to get OTU's attention with that vote. Really, this bandwagon is so stupid it makes me crazy. One RANDOM vote (his only post so far this game), followed by ryan and jordan scumteam teaming up to get me to 3 votes. Ridiculous. I want OTU to OWN his vote on me or get lost. People won't realize just how scummy this bandwagon is until the random votes leave."
o 2) "I do find it strange that ryan and jordan would buddy up together so much if they were scum. But really, that's the ultimate in WIFOM (ooh, scum would NEVER be so obvious, so we're not scum). More importantly, I really think they thought I would be a quick, easy lynch and that everyone would rally around killing me, thus making their like-mindedness not so obvious in the midst of a mob. As it is, they can't get people to vote for me and they're becoming increasinly exposed." It's not terribly strange now that Ryan is a dead townie.

Now...

Other Thoughts:
I am not going to defend my vote for Fraggle further after this. I'm a little irritated that my catch on him is what got a couple of people to move off the fense. It turned out to be a good move for the Town and I look like Mafia for it. Okhams (sp?) Razor says the simplest explaination is normally the correct one. Can't it just be that I said what I meant and with my knowledge of the theme we got the Godfather Lynched on the first Day? It wasn't really a 180. I knew something was amiss with his posts. I thought it was just really bad playing. It turned out to be very bad Mafia slip-ups. I did realize a bit of desperation in Fraggles posts afterwards that I felt strongly enough about to leave my vote on. When Fraggle said he was Terrorsaur it was official. (I couldn't understand why he didnt just choose a Maximal. Too safe?)

Anyway, I think we could find more evidence on whom to Lynch next by looking to see if ryan and HackerHack were onto anyone. Maybe the Mafia felt most threatened by them. There's another point against Lowell.

Confused, thank you for that in depth analysis! I think Trust Gossip is looking incredibly suspicious, now. His/her posts were inconsistent in regards to teffc wh was replaced by Fraggle. Your thinking seems to be along the lines of mine in that looking at players in retrospect will give us new evidence with which to Lynch Scum. Still, I've been meaning to do this for a while--

VOTE: Lowell

[JordanA24]

Lowell was a very early voter for Fraggle, I'm not saying it exonarates him completely, but it certainly makes him less suspicious.

Now Primoris/=Confused= is contributing now (nice analysis btw), I think I'll

Unvote Vote: TG

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[Sweenytodd]

@ Dusk: "Jordan Sweeny, and Ryan agree Lowell is scum." This statement is false... I spent pages and pages defending Lowell from Jordan and Ryan. And once again, as I 've been saying all game.... I see no case against Lowell, Ryan being town has no affect on Lowell's alignment in my mind... I would like to hear from STD and Trust before placing a vote anywhere...

[JordanA24]

A few questions Jordan
Why didn't you block Lowell if you thought he was scum?
Why did you chose STD to block last night?

During the night, the more I thought about it, the more scummy StD seemed to me, he attacked me and called me "certain scum", which seemed to me like picking a convenient target. He also attacked Ryan but said he was town, and oddly enough, gave the same treatment to Lowell, who I thought at the time was scum, he even said, he was low on the pro-town list, but still thought he was town without explaining, I was thinking of a Lowell-StD scumteam there, and I was thinking that they'd send StD to do the kill because of how much I attacked Lowell during the day. Now of course, the block obviously didn't work, and I'm now confident Lowell isn't scum, so I've also lost one of the main reasons why StD was scum as well because of that, so StD has gone up the pro-town list too, though not as much as Lowell.

Why did you chose to revel this information now? If STD is scum maybe you could have caught him in a lie.

I actually never thought of this, I'll remember for next time.

[Dusk]

My apologies, Sweeny. I'll do my best to never put words in another players mouth. I remember a game where I got Lynched because someone claimed I never voted for a Scum. By the time I got back to the game to point it out, it was too late.*grrrRR*

Maybe it was that you voted for Lowell once even though you resigned yourself to his innocence.

[=Confused=]

My apologies, Sweeny. I'll do my best to never put words in another players mouth. I remember a game where I got Lynched because someone claimed I never voted for a Scum. By the time I got back to the game to point it out, it was too late.*grrrRR*

Maybe it was that you voted for Lowell once even though you resigned yourself to his innocence.

Can you show me where Sweeny voted Lowell? I had a quick look and I couldn't find it, and I don't think he ever did. He threated to vote him if he didn't answer his questions at one point, but I don't think he followed though. So this whole post is confusing to me...

The thing about the Lowell case was I hated how Jordan and Ryan spoke in absolutes. "Die scum" "Why isn't Lowell dead?" and other statements like that really turned me off to the case against him. His vote hopping was pretty bad and the strange OMGUS vote on page six are points against him but I don't think it's much at this point.

Dusk do you think Lowell is scummier to you now because Ryan died last night?

[Save The Dragons]

And, if anyone's interested, I roleblocked StD last night.

Thanks, dude.

I'm wondering what everyone thinks, do we assume that Ryan killed HH or that we have 2 killing groups or what?

I don't think Ryan had any motivation to do so...

There's something I'm wondering, when the godfather dies, does another scum get promoted to godfather ?

Not usually. As in, yes, second in command sends in the kill, but they don't obtain the powers of either unNKable or innocent investigation.

Since we started with day, it is pretty clear we are dealing with two killing groups, and we started with day to limit the effect of them.

(I'm neither going to confirm or deny the roleblock unless someone gives me an earthshattering reason to do so. To confirm Jordan's role at the present time is not what I'm looking for.)

Lowell's not scum. Give me a moment to figure out who is.

[JordanA24]

And, if anyone's interested, I roleblocked StD last night.

Thanks, dude.[/quote]

Sorry about that, I was so goddamned sure, but now I think I've made a mistake there.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Why isn't Lowell scum ?

[JordanA24]

He was a very early voter for Fraggle.

[TrustGossip]

My apologies, Sweeny. I'll do my best to never put words in another players mouth. I remember a game where I got Lynched because someone claimed I never voted for a Scum. By the time I got back to the game to point it out, it was too late.*grrrRR*

Maybe it was that you voted for Lowell once even though you resigned yourself to his innocence.

Can you show me where Sweeny voted Lowell? I had a quick look and I couldn't find it, and I don't think he ever did. He threated to vote him if he didn't answer his questions at one point, but I don't think he followed though. So this whole post is confusing to me...

The thing about the Lowell case was I hated how Jordan and Ryan spoke in absolutes. "Die scum" "Why isn't Lowell dead?" and other statements like that really turned me off to the case against him. His vote hopping was pretty bad and the strange OMGUS vote on page six are points against him but I don't think it's much at this point.

Dusk do you think Lowell is scummier to you now because Ryan died last night?

I don't quite understand your case against me. Is there something wrong in remaining non-commital in the Ryan/Jordan vs. Lowell charade? It's "choose a side" mentality that leads to mislynches in my opinion, so I opt to not do so.

[JordanA24]

TG, if you've been reading recently, you'd realise that I now think Lowell to be protown.

TG, what are your thoughts, who do you suspect?

[Dusk]

I've been kind of busy with life. I'll be back really soon with a full summary on Sweeny, and more recent developments on Lowell to clear things up soon.