Mafia 60: Face-to-Face - Game over!

[Mr Stoofer]

New Page Vote Count

MrBuddyLee: 2 (Mgm CES)
Cogito Ergo Sum: 1 (Thesp)

Not voting: Patrick Thesp Glork MBL

It will take

4

votes to lynch!

[Patrick]

Interesting dancing there.

I went to bed around 2:50 am last night, if I'm working it out right, MBL placed that vote at 4:18 am my time. Anyone else who was around, was MgM around then? MgM is from holland, so it would be at a time when he would be in bed I'd have thought. Still a strange looking vote to place; looked like a quicklynchy type one.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Mgm, I think I missed the last page. Anyhow, my gut is telling me that Thesp is scum. Like the pope, my gut is infallible. I trust it 100%.

Now on to the real stuff: MBL's quicklynch attempt.

Thesp posted just 2 minutes previous to MBL's vote. That's no coincidence. MBL must've been waiting for Thesp to come on. If Thesp had checked the thread, the game would've been over.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

This is the smoking gun, guys.

[Patrick]

You're kidding. Thesp was already voting you, has been for a while.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Dammit.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I have to assume MBL was just trying to confuse us then.

[Thesp]

I have to assume MBL was just trying to confuse us then.

This looks a whole lot like trying to make the facts fit the theory, rather than make the theory fit the facts.

I though the vote without explanation was unusual, but reasonable enough. I did notice the thread and pondered unvoting, but I thought MBL's vote would still be a reasonable move by town, would involve an MBL/Patrick or MBL/Mgm pairing (in which case we're probably screwed anyway), and I didn't want to continue prolonging this game. I'm still ready to move, and I still think CES is scum.

[Glork]

Thing is, I could see MBL/Mgm as being possible still. That isolated post, that lonely vote scared the living hell out of me. I don't like it, and now I'm trying to figure out what on earth is going on.

[Mgm]

I have to assume MBL was just trying to confuse us then.

This looks a whole lot like trying to make the facts fit the theory, rather than make the theory fit the facts.

Do you have another explanation?

I though the vote without explanation was unusual, but reasonable enough.

Votes without an explanation are never reasonable. That comment was particularly badly placed after CES accused you of being linked to MBL. Are you trying to give him more reasons than just gut feeling or something?

[Mgm]

Interesting dancing there.

I went to bed around 2:50 am last night, if I'm working it out right, MBL placed that vote at 4:18 am my time. Anyone else who was around, was MgM around then? MgM is from holland, so it would be at a time when he would be in bed I'd have thought. Still a strange looking vote to place; looked like a quicklynchy type one.

Are we talking England in the UK, cause if you are, I'm positive I was asleep at that time. 4:18 would be 5:18 am my time, but I never wake before 6 am (I sleep even longer in weekends).

[Patrick]

Yes, England UK.

[Thesp]

I have to assume MBL was just trying to confuse us then.

This looks a whole lot like trying to make the facts fit the theory, rather than make the theory fit the facts.

Do you have another explanation?

I have my thoughts, but I'm not speaking for MBL. I can speak them later.

I though the vote without explanation was unusual, but reasonable enough.

Votes without an explanation are never reasonable. That comment was particularly badly placed after CES accused you of being linked to MBL. Are you trying to give him more reasons than just gut feeling or something?

This feels really, really

weird

. Why would I "place" comments? Why would I try to give someone reasons to vote for me? I don't get this at all.

[Mgm]

Semantics, I could've said "badly posted" and it would've worked just as well.
The thing is, if you are not trying to get people to vote you then why did you say this.

Here is the accusation of the link I mentioned:

MBL must've been waiting for Thesp to come on. If Thesp had checked the thread, the game would've been over.

Why did you call MBL's unexplained vote reasonable, while any other unexplained comment from a player usually draws votes in mafia?

[Thesp]

The thing is, if you are not trying to get people to vote you then why did you say this.

Huh? I'm confused here. This isn't making any sense to me.

Here is the accusation of the link I mentioned:

MBL must've been waiting for Thesp to come on. If Thesp had checked the thread, the game would've been over.

He's been saying this for some time. Why is it new now?

Why did you call MBL's unexplained vote reasonable, while any other unexplained comment from a player usually draws votes in mafia?

I respectfully disagree that voting without giving justification is always unreasonable. You can continue to argue your position in light of at least one counterfactual of a townie voting in a similar (albeit not exactly the same) way, or you can argue that I was unreasonable in Newbie 360 (linked above) in voting (actually lynching!) without explanation, or you can argue that perhaps it's not unreasonable always, but how MBL did it was unreasonable. To strengthen your argument so it's tenable, you also need to assert that scum are more likely to act in the manner which MBL did. I'm not certain you're anywhere near this, and this looks an awful lot like screaming "Boo, boo!" rather than being helpful.

[Glork]

Thesp, could you refresh my memory and give (or repost) your thoughts on everyone who is not Cogito Ergo Sum?

[Mgm]

Thesp, do you honestly expect me to compare possible game-deciding votes to random day one bandwagoning?

[Glork]

MBL, what conclusions (if any) have you come to regarding why "GlorkScum" would have unvoted CES after you put Vote #3 on him.
Are you ready and willing to lynch CES still? If so, why have you not put your vote back on him?

[Mr Stoofer]

Hmm....

We're down to 1 post per day. Do you guys want a deadline?

[Glork]

I want MBL and Thesp to respond to my most recent posts.

[MrBuddyLee]

MBL, what conclusions (if any) have you come to regarding why "GlorkScum" would have unvoted CES after you put Vote #3 on him.
Are you ready and willing to lynch CES still? If so, why have you not put your vote back on him?

I voted the way I did to test the firmness of your vote. There was a risk of Mgm waking up early and hammering if you two are scum together, but I stayed with the thread ready to unvote and figured I'd have a good chance of getting a reaction out of you first. I was comfortable enough with the CES vote that if worst-case scenario Mgm hammered, I wouldn't feel terrible about losing that way. CES is still most likely scum. I won't revote until I see this discussion play out.

I think if you are scum with CES and not Mgm, you would take advantage of the opportunity to distance from him and make me a suitable alternative vote for tomorrow. If you were partners with Mgm I think you'd have let the vote stand for another few hours instead of unvoting.

If CES-Mgm is our scumpair, your actions are a bit reactive, but basically make sense.

Thesp and Patrick aren't really trying very hard, probably because if they're town they're lazy and if they're scum they don't want to do anything to jeopardize this "safe status" conferred upon them by our collective lack of suspicion. Mgm and CES are playing weird, with a hint of defensiveness and not playing the logical way I'd expect. (I know Mgm will smack me for saying so and CES will shrug and move on to his next non-sequitur.)

Mgm, do you still find me to be most suspicious at this point?
Glork, would you have unvoted CES if I'd tacked on a cursory "Oh well, here goes nothing" like you did? Why haven't you revoted him yet?
CES, have you learned anything from Glork's song and dance here? Do you think he's Mgm's scumpartner, or are you still locked into MBL-Thesp 100%?

[Glork]

I expected you to come to some firm conclusion. My thoughts had been known all along, but other than your prospective percentage-post, you hadn't really come to a definite conclusion as to which scumpair(s) you actually thought were most likely

OVERALL

.

"Here goes" is the kind of vote somebody puts on after they've got nothing else to say, and their opinion has already been firmly presented. Me.

"Here goes" is not something I would have liked coming from somebody whose last substantial post still presented numerous possibilities and arrived at "CES or Glork, but more comfortable with CES" mostly via process of elimination. If you had said simply "here goes nothing" and voted CES, I think that I would have reacted the exact same way.




The reason I have not voted is because I am still put off by your behavior, and I am now worried for the possibility that CES is not scum and that you are scum with MGM, Thesp, or Patrick. I am keeping CES out of quicklynch range because I found your vote very alarming. I thought that I had made this clear by now.

[MrBuddyLee]

So basically you're saying, "MBL, if only you'd dressed up your vote sufficiently, you'd have won the game by now."

Seriously, you use this line all the time but it applies here. Give me some credit for not being an idiot. I'm not sure I buy this, considering you supposedly risked the game in the first place with your vote of CES. Maybe I could understand the initial kneejerk jitters, but prolonged handwringing in this situation doesn't smell right to me.

[Glork]

Basically, yeah. That's exactly what I'm saying. If you're scum, you fucked up really badly, because you turned a possible insta-win into a very unsure thing.



I'm still trying to decide if you screwed up, or if CES is scum. (Incidentally, I haven't ruled out CES/MBL, but I am currently operating as if that pairing is impossible -- because it could only serve to force me to act more hastily.)

[Patrick]

I can't bring myself to get too worked up about it, though there is some inconsistency between the apparently still undecided MBL and MBL who placed a third vote without a comment. Still, if it an Mgm/MBL scumteam, I wouldn't expect a vote like that from MBL at that time. Completely unecessary. It couldn't be a well planned move between them, because the third vote sat there for over an hour. MBL, are you saying if you'd seen Mgm come online you'd have removed the vote?

I think this incident has semi ruled out Glork/Mgm as scum together, not that I thought it was likely before. I don't see why Glork would remove his vote if that pairing existed.