[OLD] Open Setup Discussion and Nominations

[yellowbounder]

Wait, so if they hit each other, then they each know the identity of an opposing member? This is like the night scene description describing how the doc tried to protect, but the roleblocker blocked him so SAMMY (townie) died, or in other words, the mod has to reveal things about the night, which makes it more obvious for the mafia.

I'm not for this "steam rising" concept, since it's only fair that the mafia have to work out who's who as well. You see, Fire and Ice v1 worked MUCH better...

[Guardian]

I won't say

who

the steam is rising from. That would be silly .

[Kelly Chen]

Well we've had setups before where the first crosskill each way fails. Monks and Masons is one. I also used this rule in Mafia 59, Hell on Earth. It is interesting to see how scum behave when they know someone else is rival scum.

[Xdaamno]

I'd play that, guardian.

[Yosarian2]

Fire and Ice v2 Final

2 Fire Mafia
2 Ice Mafia
1 Temperature normalizer (doc)
7 Normal temperature townies

If both mafia target the same townie, then no one dies.
If this happens, or if the doc protects successfully, steam is said to be rising off of the players...

The first two times that Ice targets Fire

and

Fire targets Ice, the kills are negated.
If this happens, steam is said to be raising off of the players...

Good deal? Y'all would play be /in?

The "steam rising" thing is bad. The town should not be able to tell the difference between a doc protection and the scum choosing to no-kill. That just gives the town information unnecessarally; in this case, if steam rises when only 1 scum group is left, it gives the doc a 100% confirmed innocent, which is probably a bad thing.

Generally speaking, the town should not get extra information from mod posts.

[Stewie]

In that case the doc becomes a cop, in a way. However, the other mafia needs to also be dead, and the doc actually has to protect successfully for this to actually happen. I don't think it's something we really need to worry about.

[Yosarian2]

In that case the doc becomes a cop, in a way. However, the other mafia needs to also be dead, and the doc actually has to protect successfully for this to actually happen. I don't think it's something we really need to worry about.

(shrug) I just don't see the advantage to the mod giving the town that kind of information, is all. Better if the town has to figure out for themselves what might have happened at night.

[Kelly Chen]

You see, Fire and Ice v1 worked MUCH better...

lol

v1 didn't have any mafia

[Thesp]

Fire and Ice v2 Final

...

If both mafia target the same townie, then no one dies.
If this happens, or if the doc protects successfully, steam is said to be rising off of the players...

The first two times that Ice targets Fire

and

Fire targets Ice, the kills are negated.
If this happens, steam is said to be raising off of the players...

I don't see why any announcement must be made by the mod - in fact, I think the mod should remain silent as to why there was no kill at night. (No need to give it away!)

(shrug) I just don't see the advantage to the mod giving the town that kind of information, is all. Better if the town has to figure out for themselves what might have happened at night.

QFT.

[Guardian]

Fire and Ice v2 Final

...

If both mafia target the same townie, then no one dies.
If this happens, or if the doc protects successfully, steam is said to be rising off of the players...

The first two times that Ice targets Fire

and

Fire targets Ice, the kills are negated.
If this happens, steam is said to be raising off of the players...

I don't see why any announcement must be made by the mod - in fact, I think the mod should remain silent as to why there was no kill at night. (No need to give it away!)

(shrug) I just don't see the advantage to the mod giving the town that kind of information, is all. Better if the town has to figure out for themselves what might have happened at night.

QFT.

OK, not gonna disagree with both of you . Do you guys agree with the 2 crosskill voided limit? That is my last worry on the setup; other than that it seems really good!

[YogurtBandit]

Fire and Ice v2 Final

2 Fire Mafia
2 Ice Mafia
1 Temperature normalizer (doc)
7 Normal temperature townies

If both mafia target the same townie, then no one dies.
If this happens, or if the doc protects successfully, steam is said to be rising off of the players...

The first two times that Ice targets Fire

and

Fire targets Ice, the kills are negated.
If this happens, steam is said to be raising off of the players...

Good deal? Y'all would play be /in?

When one group dies, its over, right?

The "steam rising" thing is bad. The town should not be able to tell the difference between a doc protection and the scum choosing to no-kill. That just gives the town information unnecessarally; in this case, if steam rises when only 1 scum group is left, it gives the doc a 100% confirmed innocent, which is probably a bad thing.

Generally speaking, the town should not get extra information from mod posts.

[YogurtBandit]

Nominate Yogurt Mafia

3 mafia that cannot talk
2 Masons that can talk at all times
1 Cop/Doc(50%)
6 Vanilla

[Thok]

Nominate Yogurt Mafia

3 mafia that cannot talk
2 Masons that can talk at all times
1 Cop/Doc(50%)
6 Vanilla

Who decides the nightkill?

[Guardian]

If the setup is otherwise good and this is the last problem, it could easily work as such:


Mafia 1: You are mafia with XXX and YYY. You have priority for sending in a nightkill as long as you are a live.

Mafia 2: You are mafia with WWW and YYY. You have priority for sending in a nightkill as long as you are alive and Mafia 2 is dead. You may send in a backup target if Mafia 1 is alive, but his kill will override your choice.

Mafia 3: You are mafia with WWW and XXX. You have priority for sending in a nightkill only if both of your partners are dead. You may send in a backup target if they are alive, but their choices will override your choice.


One thing I wonder about this is if the mafia numbers would be revealed upon lynch...? I'd favor a yes, I think.

[YogurtBandit]

If the setup is otherwise good and this is the last problem, it could easily work as such:


Mafia 1: You are mafia with XXX and YYY. You have priority for sending in a nightkill as long as you are a live.

Mafia 2: You are mafia with WWW and YYY. You have priority for sending in a nightkill as long as you are alive and Mafia 2 is dead. You may send in a backup target if Mafia 1 is alive, but his kill will override your choice.

Mafia 3: You are mafia with WWW and XXX. You have priority for sending in a nightkill only if both of your partners are dead. You may send in a backup target if they are alive, but their choices will override your choice.


One thing I wonder about this is if the mafia numbers would be revealed upon lynch...? I'd favor a yes, I think.

Hmm, Well, Lets Say Bob is #1, Bill is #2 and Brad is #3. Bill would know that once Bob dies, He sends the kill. Same with Brad.They Could, since there is no Rb, but I dont think it would make a diffrence either way.

[Guardian]

I don't like watcher+doctor because if both claim, scum can't really kill them. They can kill the doctor if they really want to, but they have to pick somebody to sacrifice to do it.

If the doc claims, the scum can trade the most scummy scum for both power roles, OR just get away with killing the doc.

Doc claims. Scum kills doc, watcher finds scum. Watcher claims, scum lynched. Watcher killed. 1 scum for BOTH town power roles is not a bad deal. I am starting to really like the setup:

Very Vanilla

3 Mafia
1 Watcher
1 Doc
7 Townies

Eh?

Also, I think Yogurt Mafia has promise. I like the idea of the scum not being able to talk at night.

[Kelly Chen]

Eh? Do you like the "Very Vanilla" setup

because

scum can sometimes be forced to sacrifice somebody?

Also, in the situation you give the scum could as well just keep trying to kill the watcher (shooting blindly), not go for the doc right away. That way they don't necessarily have to give somebody up. It's just when the doc and watcher know each other that the scum are in a tough spot.

Regarding Yogurt Mafia, I don't understand the appeal of stopping scum nighttalk. I just don't think it would make any difference.

I also don't understand the appeal of the particular roles that were included in Yogurt Mafia.

[Tarhalindur]

I can't believe that (AFAICT) no one has nominated this setup yet.

Nominate Godfather C9

1x Mafia Godfather
1x Mafia Goon
1x Cop (Sane)
1x Doc
3x Vanilla Townies

[Streeflo]

How's this for an idea.

1 Mafia Godfather (Investigation Immune OR NK Immune)
2 Mafia Goons

0 or 1 Cop
0 or 1 Vig
0 or 1 Doc
0 or 2 Masons
0 or 1 Miller
3 to 9 Townies.

In the pregame the GF gets to choose whether he wants to be investigation immune or nk immune.
Or maybe can put in a Roleblocker for mafia, and if the mafia give up the roleblocker roler, the Godfather can get BOTH Investigation immunity and nk immunity?

[Kelly Chen]

In general I don't think mafia should select their powers, for the same reason that in time it could become clear which choices are best.

If I were godfather I would easily choose cop immunity over vig immunity. I wouldn't give up an RB to get both of these powers I don't think.

I don't like the masons in that setup since it's very unlikely that scum would ever try to claim it. Maybe make it 0 or 1 roleblocker instead of the masons?

I'm not sure whether the whole thing is balanced...

Interesting if you tell the scum which roles are included...

[yellowbounder]

Nominate JesterMafia

7 townies
2 mafia
1 jester
Day start

Having a jester in a game is much more fun in an open setup. The jester might pretend to be scum, and vice versa. It is even more challenging for the townies, because they can't just lynch anyone who acts scummy.

Edited: 1 jester rather than 2, with 7 townies

Renominate Jester Mafia

Unless someone comes up with a better Jester setup.

[Guardian]

Second Godfather c9

I think it has potential to be

the

newbie game setup. It has all the normal power roles for players to get used to. The goon also learns of counterclaiming .

[Kelly Chen]

Why do you say "the goon also learns of counterclaiming"?

[Guardian]

I think this setup lends itself to the goon fake claiming or countering either the doc or the cop if they claim d1 or especially d2 after a mislynch day one.

[Thesp]

I think this setup lends itself to the goon fake claiming or countering either the doc or the cop if they claim d1 or especially d2 after a mislynch day one.

Why wouldn't they do that already?

I also don't get the appeal of Godfathers,

especially

with Mafia groups with a size smaller than 4, and even more especially when that means you have a cop who only gets a useful result on 1 player in the game.