Mini 425 Generic Western Mafia- Game over!

[DeathSauce]

Believe what you want, I still think you are possibly scummy as well, Thesp. Unfortunately I can only vote for one scum at a time.

*******************************************
Day 2, Sixth official vote count:


Paradoxombie (2): gorckat, mustafa15
DeathSauce (2): CrashTextDummie, Thesp
Raffles (1): Peter Venkman
CrashTextDummue (1): DeathSauce

Not voting: TeamQuiggan, Paradoxombie, Occult, Raffles

10 alive, 6 to lynch.

[gorckat]

I think DS tried to get one over on CTD and got reversed. He looks scummier, to me, than he did before.

[DeathSauce]

I don't even know what that means.

[gorckat]

From my read of the interactions, the quotes and assertions on the last page or so, it looks like you tried to link Peter and CTD in a way that was patently false/non-existent.

My re-read of it looks like you got trashed for trying it.

And because you tried to do it, you look scummier.

[DeathSauce]

So Peter and CTD didn't lead the lynch of VRK? I seem to remember that they did.

[gorckat]

I'm referring to the linkage you tried to make saying PEG would sac himself to prove CTD was scum. That whole exchange puts you in a(n even) scummier light to me.

I still think you and xombie are the best bets right now, although we really need to hear from Raffles and Quiggan before lynching anyone (not that the tow of you are on the gallow steps just yet, anyway).

[Paradoxombie]

PZombie, could you explain your voting record please (this time without avoiding the question) Below I put the quotes I found in regards to your voting record.

Sorry, the only recent question I remeber you asking me is why I avoided your suspicions

-Vote Guardian, says he is going a bit WIFOM and his reasons are no different from others (doesn't state any reasons)

-Guardian prods him for reasons and his reasons are: Too vocal for a newbie, Posts too much (so therefor he gets more scum tells), doesn't want to vote a lurker and he reserves thoughts on the subject

Misleading, I straight out said my reasons for not voting a lurker.

What I really said:

ebwop: thanks John and I agree, zombie please explain in your own words your reasons for your vote on me. I'm sure you have a new perspective on things.

Im not gonna point out individual situations, since they've all blended after 12 pages, so here's a more general explanation.

You've been extremely vocal, which is a pretty scumy tell for a fairly new player, imo. I'm suspicious of many people, but you seem to give off more tells than anyone else(largely since you've posted so much). Arguable, of course, everyone gives off scum tells constantly, but you've played so much maybe Im just getting more.

I could take a risk and vote for a lurker but due to the number of interactions you've made, I'd get more information from your death than any of their's. Im more inclined to vote pro-town and learn what I can from your death than vote for someone who barely posts and learn nothing whether they are scum or not.

I'm flat out admitting that Im not very certain you're scum, but playing in a utilitarian fashion makes you the best lynch imo, and I feel that I'm not gonna learn much more today without going WIFOM. So I've settled on you. I think my reasoning is pretty airtight, but someone could always change my mind.

I have more thoughts I'll reserve, since I feel revealing them would help scum.

-Vote Avi (because he's lurking) after his saying he doesn't want to vote a lurker (this is AFTER support for an avi lynch rose)

What I really said:

Vote: Avinyl

Maybe it's just the cynic in me, but I feel like he's not coming back, at least not soon enough to make me feel guilty.

IGMEOY: Guardian

It was not just because he was lurking, it was because he was effectively AWOL, and I figured we might as well just off someone who's not even playing.

-Vote for guardian (Saying he was voting just because he was a lurker, after saying he wasn't voting a lurker) no reasons, BTW

I already had a whole post dedicated to why I thought Guardian was suspicious. Want to see it?

ebwop: thanks John and I agree, zombie please explain in your own words your reasons for your vote on me. I'm sure you have a new perspective on things.

Im not gonna point out individual situations, since they've all blended after 12 pages, so here's a more general explanation.

You've been extremely vocal, which is a pretty scumy tell for a fairly new player, imo. I'm suspicious of many people, but you seem to give off more tells than anyone else(largely since you've posted so much). Arguable, of course, everyone gives off scum tells constantly, but you've played so much maybe Im just getting more.

I could take a risk and vote for a lurker but due to the number of interactions you've made, I'd get more information from your death than any of their's. Im more inclined to vote pro-town and learn what I can from your death than vote for someone who barely posts and learn nothing whether they are scum or not.

I'm flat out admitting that Im not very certain you're scum, but playing in a utilitarian fashion makes you the best lynch imo, and I feel that I'm not gonna learn much more today without going WIFOM. So I've settled on you. I think my reasoning is pretty airtight, but someone could always change my mind.

I have more thoughts I'll reserve, since I feel revealing them would help scum.

I didnt even change my mind about him, Avinyl just came back. And when I first came in, I said I didn't want to vote a lurker because we'd gain little from that, I never straight out denied it as I voted Avi like your post implies.

-In response to my question of if he had reasons, he says he already layed them out (Which he hasn't) and believes you should always have your vote on a person.

WTF are you talking about, you said it yourself I immediately spelled out my reasons when guardian asked me to. Here's them again just to make it blatantly obvious how wrong you are:

ebwop: thanks John and I agree, zombie please explain in your own words your reasons for your vote on me. I'm sure you have a new perspective on things.

Im not gonna point out individual situations, since they've all blended after 12 pages, so here's a more general explanation.

You've been extremely vocal, which is a pretty scumy tell for a fairly new player, imo. I'm suspicious of many people, but you seem to give off more tells than anyone else(largely since you've posted so much). Arguable, of course, everyone gives off scum tells constantly, but you've played so much maybe Im just getting more.

I could take a risk and vote for a lurker but due to the number of interactions you've made, I'd get more information from your death than any of their's. Im more inclined to vote pro-town and learn what I can from your death than vote for someone who barely posts and learn nothing whether they are scum or not.

I'm flat out admitting that Im not very certain you're scum, but playing in a utilitarian fashion makes you the best lynch imo, and I feel that I'm not gonna learn much more today without going WIFOM. So I've settled on you. I think my reasoning is pretty airtight, but someone could always change my mind.

I have more thoughts I'll reserve, since I feel revealing them would help scum.

Here's mustafa doing the same thing:

I'm thinking it's time for a

vote:Paradoxombie

My reasons have been documented

I guess that's not suspicious, though, because he's on the same wagon as you.

-In response to gaurdian asking if he has any contributions he says (No, no, nothing significant.)

I don't see what this has to do with my voting record. But it sure makes your list look bigger.

-Unvotes PEG (as a new replacement allows him to come in without a vote) But he has already said that he thinks you should always keep a vote on someone.

I said I was gonna read through again in the same post:

well out of respect for PMG, I'll

unvote

But I feel like I have to read through the topic again before I decide my course of action for the rest of the day

-Tells DS that he isn't going to vote now b/c there is a deadline.

I already have explained this. Want to see?

The only way you explained it was that you felt the deadline made your vote unneccessary, when clearly it is worth more given people can be lynched without a majority and the way ties work out.

I meant my vote is unecessary to keep the game moving. That was the whole point in the first place. I'd leave my vote on someone even if I don't find them that suspicious because at least it keeps the day moving(actually I've been less strict in that rule recently)

But at the end of yesterday, I wasn't sure who to vote and everyone was looking suspicious at times. I didn't want to make an arbitrary vote either because just hoping on a wagon could come back to get me if that wagon became scrutinized later. The fact that my vote was even more powerful gave me an even better reason not to use it, I simply was not sure what to do for a while.

Thank you for making me find it and post it though. I really appreciate that.

-Agrees with peter's argument and Votes PEG for not agreeing

What I really said:

Vote: Pickemgenius

You're being ridiculously obtuse at this point.

Peter explained why he used those arguments. Scum or not, it doesn't prove anything at all that they were flimsy. Instead of just disagreeing with his playstyle, you continue to demean and argue over it, and all you keep saying is how dumb arguments are anti-town, which is just not true.

You are taking Peter's play far too superficialy in my opinion

I did NOT vote him for not agreeing. And I did NOT say anywhere that I did

-Foses DS, No reason

I HAD reasons, I just wanted to see what his response would be.

-Needs to be prodded for reasoning again, says that DS is leading an easy wagon against the leader of the previous wagon.

I was planning on posting them pending Deathsauces reply.



Well thank you, Occult, for posting these lovely "quotes" and managing to misrepresent me in the majority of them. Having to post the real posts along with your version of them also made this look terrible and hard to comprehend. It will confuse other players and won't help anyone; thanks a bunch!

and I guess I really am unjustified in not wanting to respond to the even bigger, more misleading, and more confusing version of your arguments.
(^^^sarcasm)

[Occult]

THANK YOU.

That's what I was looking for. I feel a bit better about you, PZombie. Only a bit though.

[Occult]

EBWODP

UNVOTE

[Peter Venkman]

I agree gorckat, it seems like clumsy distancing, as I alluded to above.

So when a player asks another player a question, he is distancing himself from that player? Of course, the only players who want to distance themselves from other players are scum... lot of players have asked each other questions...

Do you see where this is going?

I would feel more comfortable about you if your arguments didn't attack players performing the most basic functions of this game: asking each other questions. I would like you better if attempted to make a solid case against a player, rather than these scattershot accusations. Who

haven't

you accused during Day Two? If you get lynched, that information is going to be pretty valuable.

-Peter

[mustafa15]

t;]
-Vote Avi (because he's lurking) after his saying he doesn't want to vote a lurker (this is AFTER support for an avi lynch rose)

What I really said:

Vote: Avinyl

Maybe it's just the cynic in me, but I feel like he's not coming back, at least not soon enough to make me feel guilty.

IGMEOY: Guardian

It was not just because he was lurking, it was because he was effectively AWOL, and I figured we might as well just off someone who's not even playing.

Just because they aren't playing doesn't mean that they are scum. It would make more sense to lynch someone that is acting scummy, and get someone that isn't playing replaced than just killing them.

[DeathSauce]

So when a player asks another player a question, he is distancing himself from that player?

Peter, the interaction between you and CTD was far more than simply asking a question. I have read enough games to realize that minor internal arguments are fairly unusual between pro-town players this late in the game and that staged arguments are far more common between scum.

[Paradoxombie]

Just because they aren't playing doesn't mean that they are scum. It would make more sense to lynch someone that is acting scummy, and get someone that isn't playing replaced than just killing them.

I agree. I had little play expirience at the time, and although I can't decide exactly what made me think that was a good idea back then that is different now, I wouldn't consider that vote justified anymore. I guess I would have posted that in the explanation, but it seemed like Occult was mostly attacking me for contradictions and not on the actual logic of the vote.

[Peter Venkman]

Peter, the interaction between you and CTD was far more than simply asking a question. I have read enough games to realize that minor internal arguments are fairly unusual between pro-town players this late in the game and that staged arguments are far more common between scum.

You're going to have to draw the distinction between "Normal Pro-Town" conversation and "Distancing Scum Pretending to be Pro-Town" conversation.

Until than you appear to just be waving your finger. You've done that a lot during Day Two. Like I said before, I am more interested in the people you haven't accused.

-Peter

[Sefer]

Raffles has not picked up his prod, so I will be looking for a replacement for him as well (though since I have to find a replacement for TQ first, he may return before that occurs).

[Sefer]

Lateralus replaces TeamQuiggan. somestrangeflea replaces Raffles. Thanks for replacing, guys! We're back to full.

[Lateralus]

Did you read the posts in question? They specifically refer to the "CTD/Peter contingent".

Here's what he said. Complete quote:
"Good, Peter has been running this game, i'm surprised nobody else has noticed that, if it takes lynching me to realize that, then i'll be happy to be of service. "

Nowhere does he mention me.

He followed this up with more attacks on Peter.

None

on me.

He even quoted you again later:

1) I felt that the amount of suspicion leveled at VRK was inconsistent with the seriousness of his mistake. I actually still don't understand why it was such a big deal.

2)

Seeing Peter Venkman, who was the voice of reason throughout the first 18 pages, suddenly glom onto this trivial matter as if it was the scumtell of all time really raised my hackles.

3) This sentence

It's clearly better in this situation to lynch someone, so please get your act together, town.

was odd. We had a deadline fast approaching, there was no danger that someone wasn't going to be lynched.
Why was CTD so anxious for everyone to jump on the VRK wagon? To lessen the importance of his vote?
Maybe.

Wait, I wasn't the first to say Peter was running the game?

Again, he specifically, and only comments on the Peter part of your argument.

This does not

at all

translate into him being so sure that I am scum that he would sacrifice himself. It does not even translate into him being suspicious of me. About the only thing he ever said about me is that he felt my argument against VRK is weak.

I take it, by the way, that you do now admit that the incident occurred? If so, does that qualify as an 'internal inconsistency"?

I don't know why I'm even bothering with you anymore.

Yes, he was willing to get himself lynched because he was convinced of Peter's guilt.
No, he was not willing to get himself lynched because he was convinced of my guilt.

You claimed the latter. You're also just spouting bullshit at this point.

I will answer the points that I feel need comment. As I have done in my last two posts.

You don't think you should give an update on your suspicions when you've pretty much attacked everyone today while accusing

me

of spreading suspicion around?
You don't think you should substantiate your claim of a Peter/CTD scum-pair when all you came up with so far is that "it feels like CTD is distancing"?
You don't think you should explain your bizarre opinion that starting a counter-wagon on a townie is a good thing?

Then I'm more than happy to see you hang.

It seems to me that peter keeps turning the tables and always seems to take your discussions the wrong way.

[Thesp]

Peter, the interaction between you and CTD was far more than simply asking a question. I have read enough games to realize that minor internal arguments are fairly unusual between pro-town players this late in the game and that staged arguments are far more common between scum.

Where have you read games like this? This doesn't match my experience

at all

. I think you're making things up at this point.

[gorckat]

Eager to hear from the new guys...

[Occult]

Eager to hear from the new guys...

ditto. Though the reading is a bit on the longer side so I'll give them a day or two before I start bitching about it.

[somestrangeflea]

Thanks! I'm reading through now. It's an awful lot!

I wanna get caught up fully before I post anything. I don't want to be basing my arguments on the the half-stories!

[Lateralus]

FoS:gorckat

Just gives me an odd feeling due too Only Trying to take down DS and him only and seems to continue to argue with him and not get into any other conversations/discussions. seems scummy to me.

[gorckat]

Lat- are you fully read up?

[Lateralus]

Lat- are you fully read up?

Un-FoS:gorckat

Sorry bud just got done reading the whole thread took some time to do so but i did it... sorry about that

[gorckat]

Glad I asked before I lost my cool, then

I look forward to seeing your total overview.