Open 21 - Friends and Enemies (Game Over), before 453

[Patrick]

Votecount

Lawrencelot (2) -- Lowell, Albert B. Rampage
bird1111 (1) -- Adel
Lowell (1) -- Lawrencelot

Not Voting: Ripley, Sir Tornado, bird1111
7 alive, 4 to lynch.

[Lowell]

* bangs head against wall *

I can't believe how we're still not seeing this. LOOK AGAIN at the pages leading up to ryan's death. That's pages 10-15ish. You... really think Lawrence might not be guilty? That's insane.

Adel- Wow you're edgy.

First, I'm not even voting you... and I didn't vote you YESTERDAY, so chill out with the "Lowell is attacking me" bit.

Second, if you were an actual townie, you wouldn't CARE that I find you suspicious if I'm voting for someone else. If you think Lawrence is scum you'd vote for him and worry about tomorrow tomorrow. The fact that you're so intent on attacking me NOW makes me think what really worries you is that your scummate will be gone and you'll be left to fend for yourself, and that I'll attack you tomorrow. Which I probably will.

So the question isn't what do you think about ME. The question is

what do you think about Lawrence

? Yesterday you seemed happy to vote him when albert was declaring open season on he and Aimee. Now, on your own, you don't even want to comment on him it seems. You're directing your anger at me to avoid having to take a position on your scumbuddy. Hell you're not even voting ME for fear of buddying up to him too much. You're voting, conveniently enough, for a lurker.

My god this is obvious. People, vote for Lawrence already.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Had Aimee turned out to be a scum (after the exact sequence of events that we have now) would you be voting me as the remaining scum? (considering that I voted for Aimee?)

No, at the time I thought Aimee was scum with Lawrencelot.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yeah I agree with Lowell, but we must see some content by Bird.

[Sir Tornado]

We can do this two ways today:

1) Conclude that we already have all the information we need and lynch someone right now.

2) Decide that we do not have enough information for a lynch, and try to gather more by having more discussion.

What would the majority of town prefer?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I already said I wanted content from Bird.

Sir Tornado, I understand your last post, but you said that you would vote Aimee because then "the game would open up", not because you were going to shut an eye Is that correct ?

[Sir Tornado]

Sir Tornado, I understand your last post, but you said that you would vote Aimee because then "the game would open up", not because you were going to shut an eye Is that correct ?

What do you mean by "you were going to shut an eye"? I am not sure I understand that at all.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Perhaps you left out this little post of yours in between me agreeing to vote for Aimee and your post you just quoted?

All I asked is for you guys to close your eyes for one day, trust me and vote Aimee.

You didn't seem like you were closing an eye. Rather, you looked like you thought it would be a good logical move.

[Sir Tornado]

Perhaps you left out this little post of yours in between me agreeing to vote for Aimee and your post you just quoted?

All I asked is for you guys to close your eyes for one day, trust me and vote Aimee.

You didn't seem like you were closing an eye. Rather, you looked like you thought it would be a good logical move.

Ok, I will put it this way, had it been suggested by a non-mason and someone who was not a confirmed townie, I would not have done it. It took a bit of trust in the person who proposed it along with the logic for me to vote for it, especially because (as you might have guessed already from my posts before that page) I wasn't entirely sure of the case against Aimee.

[Albert B. Rampage]

1) You were acting independently thus far
2) You suddenly decided to follow me after talking a lot about overconfidence
3) You put Aimee at -1, and we quicklynched her

Adel and Lawrencelot both have a cover for their move(something I regret of course), while you said you were unfazed by the way I was acting. I don't see why you suddenly changed your mind and attacked Aimee if you thought she was likely innocent. On what grounds did you go against her ? You claim it was blind trust, but is that really true ?

[Adel]

Looks like ABR has Sir Tornado in his sights.

I think there is about a 2 in 3 chance that Lawrencelot is scum. However, that works out to us only having a 50-50 shot at winning if he is lynched and is scum and I am lynched as well. If Both of us are lynched and Lawrencelot isn't scum, that is a lost game in my analysis. It would be easy to be in the Lawrencelot wagon, but a hasty mistake would be a game looser.

Does anyone else find it interesting that Lowell is pushing for a quick Lawrencelot lynch?

My god this is obvious. People, vote for Lawrence already.

And he suggests that I am scummy for looking closely at Lowell, and that I'm scummy for voting for a lurker, who may be (slight chance) his partner, in what was clearly a tactical vote to encourage our last lurker to post.

Lowell: it seems to me you want us to lynch Lawrencelot before bird1111 posts, and before much more conversation occurs. Why?

[Sir Tornado]

1) You were acting independently thus far
2) You suddenly decided to follow me after talking a lot about overconfidence
3) You put Aimee at -1, and we quicklynched her

Adel and Lawrencelot both have a cover for their move(something I regret of course), while you said you were unfazed by the way I was acting. I don't see why you suddenly changed your mind and attacked Aimee if you thought she was likely innocent. On what grounds did you go against her ? You claim it was blind trust, but is that really true ?

I did not attack Aimee anywhere. In fact, if you recollect, I actually defended her against your accusations for the lack of proper evidence. And, if you see some of the my posts on day 2, you will realise that I was not unfazed by your behaviour. Notice my posts questioning your behaviour especially after you attacked Ripley (and before you said it was a bluff) and soon after you attacked Aimee.

Especially after you attacked Aimee, I mentioned that I felt you were becoming overconfident. Then the next page, I voted for the candidate of your choice.

However, you should notice that I accused you of overconfidence over your conviction of Aimee being scum. I would never have followed you had you kept your case against Aimee at that level. But, you upgraded your case against Aimee to it being a strategic vote ("This will open up the game") and followed that with a plea to take your word for it ("Close your eyes and vote for Aimee today").

I never claimed that it was blind trust alone. It was a mixture of your logic about the strategic vote as well as the trust that you were a mason. And, I think that is more or less what I said in my last post.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Thank you for clarifying things.

However, a question itches me: what was strategical about lynching Aimee ? How would it open up the game ?

[Sir Tornado]

Thank you for clarifying things.

However, a question itches me: what was strategical about lynching Aimee ? How would it open up the game ?

I believe that lynching Aimee will provide us with far more information than anybody else.

If Aimee turns scum, Bird is immediately town. Adel is very close to cleared. You become a possible scum.

If Aimee turns town, you are immediately town. With two shots remaining and only Adel, Lawrencelot and Bird left, we have a confirmed victory.

[Lowell]

Looks like ABR has Sir Tornado in his sights.

I think there is about a 2 in 3 chance that Lawrencelot is scum. However, that works out to us only having a 50-50 shot at winning if he is lynched and is scum and I am lynched as well. If Both of us are lynched and Lawrencelot isn't scum, that is a lost game in my analysis. It would be easy to be in the Lawrencelot wagon, but a hasty mistake would be a game looser.

Does anyone else find it interesting that Lowell is pushing for a quick Lawrencelot lynch?

My god this is obvious. People, vote for Lawrence already.

And he suggests that I am scummy for looking closely at Lowell, and that I'm scummy for voting for a lurker, who may be (slight chance) his partner, in what was clearly a tactical vote to encourage our last lurker to post.

Lowell: it seems to me you want us to lynch Lawrencelot before bird1111 posts, and before much more conversation occurs. Why?

Wow is that ever a not thoughtful post posing as a thoughtful one.

No, I don't care if Bird posts yet. Lawrence is scum, dear god he's scum.

You're my next target after him. Knowing this town, though, we'll lynch someone stupid and you'll breeze by again. But that is neither here nor there.

I want everyone to look again at Lawrence's posts 250 and then 308. The way he says "maybe I believe papaya" (testing the waters) then turns around and joins Adel and ryan in NOT believing both papaya AND ABR is ... just... bewildering.

Really, the strongest argument AGAINST Adel being scum is Lawrence's willingness to jump to her support. I don't know that he would have joined in ryan's and her defense (pitting all three scum against five or six united townies) had a townie not already been there.

Adel- Though I find it unlikely, I could see you not being scum. However, I CANNOT see Lawrence not being scum. Hence the vote.

Here's why I don't think Bird is scum. Were he scum deciding intentionally to not support his doomed scumbuddies (ryan and Lawrence), he would have made CLEAR this view, if for no other reason than to blend in w/ the rest of us. Being silent and invisible calls more attention than just saying "sure, I agree w/ ABR."

Also, this town never quicklynches anyone. Them's crocodile tears you're shedding in worrying about it.

[Adel]

Them's crocodile tears you're shedding in worrying about it.

I think Aimee would disagree.


I don;t buy your defense of bird1111. Does anyone else?

[Lowell]

I don't buy your attempt at misdirection. Does anyone else?

[Adel]

Two more mislynches looses the game, and you want us to close our eyes, vote for Law, and worry about tomorrow tomorrow. I agree that that there is a very good chance that Law is scum, but we haven't look very closely at alternatives, and we haven't looked at evidence outside of the last half of the first day. Your behavior during the first half of day1 was suspect to Ripley. I think your timing in going on vacation within hours of A Papaya claiming is suspect. I think your behavior today is scummy. If ABR wasn't cleared as mason I would think it was scummy of him to give you a pass: I don't see the logic behind it. Promoting both Law and I as the scumbuddies of ryan seems suspect to me. You could be pushing for an easy double mislynch, or bussing Law to get yourself through the endgame. Lets see who blinks first.

unvote:bird1111 vote:Lowell

[Adel]

EBWOP

unvote:bird1111 vote:Lowell

[Ripley]

I don't think we can deduce a thing from bird1111's failure to post. He appears to have been away more or less when he said he was. We have already reached page 30. That's a lot of catching up.

Sir Tornado. Some questions.

You say you voted Aimee, despite not finding her suspicious, and in a situation that would clearly lead to her lynch since we all knew A Papaya would do whatever he was told - because you believed that her lynch would "open the game up and give us a clear path for day 3". Do you think this has happened, and if so, what is that clear path? I see no sign of enlightment in your posts since Aimee's death. Apart from a query to Lowell that might be interpreted as testing the waters for a diversion of the Lawrencelot lynch to Adel:

Why Lawrencelot? Why not Adel? Any difference between them, or are you totally convinced that they are the two scum (as you said yesterday) and you don't care in which order they are lynched?

... I can see nothing in your posts to indicate what you learned from Aimee's lynch and who it's directed you towards for a lynch choice today. Which makes it even weirder that you would make post 729, which offers the town two options, one of which is "Conclude that we already have all the information we need and lynch someone right now.". Especially since several people had already stated they wanted to get content from bird1111.

Did you agree with ABR's deductions based on Aimee's alignment (quoted by you just now in 738)? Did you check them? Did you make predictions of your own based on Aimee's alignment, and if so what were they?

You have said (Post 736) that before Aimee's lynch you had concerns about ABR's behavior, and that you thought he was overconfident about Aimee being scum. You had just seen him out a fellow mason for no reason at all. And despite all that, you decided to place such faith in his judgment and ability to accurately predict other roles based on Aimee's alignment, that you just... obediently lynched her? Not even believing she was scum?

This just feels all wrong to me.

Anyway. At present I'm just about on the side of those who think Lawrence and Adel are probably not

both

scum. And I've always thought that of the two Lawrence made the most likely scumbag.

[Sir Tornado]

I don't think we can deduce a thing from bird1111's failure to post. He appears to have been away more or less when he said he was. We have already reached page 30. That's a lot of catching up.

Sir Tornado. Some questions.

You say you voted Aimee, despite not finding her suspicious, and in a situation that would clearly lead to her lynch since we all knew A Papaya would do whatever he was told - because you believed that her lynch would "open the game up and give us a clear path for day 3". Do you think this has happened, and if so, what is that clear path? I see no sign of enlightment in your posts since Aimee's death. Apart from a query to Lowell that might be interpreted as testing the waters for a diversion of the Lawrencelot lynch to Adel:

Why Lawrencelot? Why not Adel? Any difference between them, or are you totally convinced that they are the two scum (as you said yesterday) and you don't care in which order they are lynched?

<snip>

Did you agree with ABR's deductions based on Aimee's alignment (quoted by you just now in 738)? Did you check them? Did you make predictions of your own based on Aimee's alignment, and if so what were they?

My conclusions after Aimee's alignment was made clear:

Adel/Lawrencelot and Bird

After the NK was revealed:

Adel and Lowell.

I asked Lowell why he voted for Lawrencelot instead of Adel for precisely that reason.

... I can see nothing in your posts to indicate what you learned from Aimee's lynch and who it's directed you towards for a lynch choice today. Which makes it even weirder that you would make post 729, which offers the town two options, one of which is "Conclude that we already have all the information we need and lynch someone right now.". Especially since several people had already stated they wanted to get content from bird1111.

That post (post 729) was mainly directed at Lowell because he seems too eager to vote out Lawrencelot. (check out his post 726)

Anyway. At present I'm just about on the side of those who think Lawrence and Adel are probably not

both

scum. And I've always thought that of the two Lawrence made the most likely scumbag.

One of them can be a scum. However, I feel the chances of both of them being are null. And, I think that person is Adel.

[Ripley]

My conclusions after Aimee's alignment was made clear:

Adel/Lawrencelot and Bird

After the NK was revealed:

Adel and Lowell.

Why did you change your mind?

[Sir Tornado]

My conclusions after Aimee's alignment was made clear:

Adel/Lawrencelot and Bird

After the NK was revealed:

Adel and Lowell.

Why did you change your mind?

Failure to NK ABR. I mean why leave ABR? He's the most dangerous mason around... the way he just got Aimee lynch out of nowhere.

Only 2 people benefit from ABR's non-lynch, myself and Lowell. I

know

that I am not a scum. Ergo, Lowell is.

[Sir Tornado]

EBWOP: ABR's non-

NK

(not non-lynch) in the last line of my last post

[Lawrencelot]

Confirm vote: Lowell

Lowell is the most scummy to me, and I think he's worth lynching today, although not quick-lynching. So don't pile it up, we need to hear what bird has to say.

@Lowell: if you would succeed in getting me lynched, and everybody would see that I am town, would you take the responsibility? How would you defend yourself next day if this happened?