Touhou: MitLoF ~ Makai Mix (Game Over)

[Aronis]

I'm just not having a very lucky day, I guess.

So who should I vote, Wisdom?

[Curiosity]

BoP

~Wis

[Aronis]

K. Thanks.

VOTE: Birds of Prey

[beeboy]

Adonis's sheep feels forced and it makes me uneasy

[beeboy]

Aronis's*

[Curiosity]

Nah dw

~Wis

[beeboy]

That vote didn't feel unnatural in any way from your point of view?

[Curiosity]

No he's just lazy. Didn't you see the dice thingies

~Wis

[beeboy]

Anyone can manipulate numbers

[beeboy]

Also he is voting a town read because a conf town told him to do so that is giving me bad vibes

[Curiosity]

It was not actual reads, it was dice rolls

~Wis

[Curiosity]

Cmon man, stop overthinking, pie explained why AD's actions make him town

~Wis

[mastin2]

Getting an in-thread post to acknowledge the prod. I'm back here, and won't be staying for terribly long. (I'll be here 'til midnight, since I'm listening to a radio program, but after that I want a midnight snack/meal, and then once I return from that, my modded game has priority over this one. I'll probably have enough time to spare after

that

to come here and

finish

the catchup, but I'm not going to finish it right now.)

I have to go now but really quick, if you're supposedly so easy to read, how should I go about reading you? what is the major thing I am missing in your posts this game that I have never been able to find all this time?

Well...to be perfectly, 100% honest...I've not been scum in a situation like this for so long that I'm not sure I can give you a fully-accurate answer. Certain things in my meta are likely to have not changed at all, and this is what I'm basing the below on, but others could have if I actually were scum here. (I really dunno.)

For a start? ScuMastin has one goal, and ONE goal only: Control. Everything she does is focused on that mission objective, to control the town. Town Mastin has no such focus, thus, is chaotic. This is most noteworthy in the catchups. ScuMastin reads ahead and with daychat has scumbuddies she asks to keep her informed (only true with daychat, though, which while I have a gut feeling is probably in the game you never really know), because when she reads posts, she's looking for material to manipulate, and foresight while pretending to not have a vision of the future is a good way to do that. Town Mastin

occasionally

does this, yes, admittedly, that is true. Yet scuMastin does it more often. Town Mastin when catching up will comment on every little thing that catches her interest; scuMastin is more technical and precise. So it's really the difference between good and evil, chaos and order, whimsical and planned, emotional and logical. Town Mastin is simply put not in control of the game. (IF town-Mastin IS in control of the game, she will announce as such and be GRIPING about it, moaning about how she most certainly doesn't WANT to be in control of the game because to a town-Mastin,

being in control of the game is

too much responsibility

on her mentally-fragile mind.) ScuMastin succeeds in gaining control of the game.

There's more to it than that, of course. I'm missing a ton. But however good at faking my town self scuMastin may be, she cannot (as far as I know, anyway) duplicate ALL those trends at once. Her scum agenda shows through. And you know why? Because scuMastin doesn't even need to look town. She can appear to be scum to a lot of players, and she STILL won't get lynched. By a combination of reputation and misdirection, she's capable of making it so that even if you scream that she's obvscum, she'll never be lynched without a role guilty basically. Because with CONTROL of the game, she can do that.

Really, all you need to do is to compare the emotions I faked in L4D (and yes, those emotions were VERY OBVIOUSLY FAKED) to the very, very, VERY real emotions I held in Tales of You. That's the difference. In L4D, they were "close enough" to do their job: they kept me from being lynched, yet were transparently obvious. Because in that game, I didn't need them more realistic; I had control of the game by letting myself be lynched. In Tales, well, you saw that. My posting was literally overwhelmed with genuine emotions. The closest I've gotten as scum to using legitimate emotions is Anything Goes...because my emotions

were

legitimate, because I

legitimately

believed APBros were somehow scum. Yet in all my other emotional outbursts that game, they were faked and rather obviously so. I controlled people by arguing repetition and forcing things through when needed...yet also showing those remorseful emotions when needed to make it appear at least superficially that I wasn't just scum strongarming. (When...I was.)

The difference is pretty dang strong.

I'll address 5424 and onward when I return.

/gotta eat.

[Alchemist21]

So fake emotions = scum mastin?

[Aronis]

Aronis's*

Aronis' *

[St Constantine the Hermit]

So fake emotions = scum mastin?

The basis of lying is to prove something that is fake is actually true.
Like scum being town. Therefore faking emotions should be the primary scum tell.
Sociology is creating exciting new ways to catch the fakers.

[Yukari Yakumo]

VC 4.05

mastin2 (2):

SXTLHGaiden, beeboy

Alchemist21 (4):

UNZAN

, mastin2, Om of the Nom, Ankamius

Birds of Prey (4):

pieguyn, purple hero, Curiosity, Aronis

Saki (1):

Birds of Prey

Om of the Nom (2):

Sakura Hana, Alchemist21

Not Voting:

beastcharizard, Saki, St Constantine the Hermit

With 15 alive, 8 votes to lynch

Deadline: November 27, 9:50 AM EST.
Countdown: (expired on 2014-11-27 09:50:00)

[Yukari Yakumo]

It appears that I somehow missed prodding BoP when I sent out a mass-prod.
BoP has been prodded.

[pieguyn]

I'm really not sure how to articulate a lot of the scum vibes I'm getting from BOP, but most of it is there's a distinct lack of town motivation in her posting. town Titus sometimes doesn't make sense, but you can at least figure out what she's trying to accomplish and get done in the game. I'm not seeing that at all from her this game. her play this game looks more like she's arguing over irrelevant things for the sake of it, as opposed to doing anything she perceives as useful.

like, the way she handled the desperado thing:

Spoiler:

Mod: Could a doctor heal a hypothetical death from a Desperado claim?

Pie, if a doctor cannot stop a desperado attempt from the attacker (Curiosity) then how could a scum doctor heal Action Dan?

Mod: Could a doctor heal a hypothetical death from a Desperado claim?

Pie, if a doctor cannot stop a desperado attempt from the attacker (Curiosity) then how could a scum doctor heal Action Dan?

ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?

THE DESPERADO KILL ITSELF IS A STANDARD FUCKING KILL. OF COURSE A DOCTOR CAN SAVE FROM IT.

Which is it? It can heal or it can't.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... ado_(Role)

The wiki seems to state that the Desperado's victim is just as vulnerable as the attacker and vice versa. There is no "nothing can stop it" at all.


Pie, your case depends on assuming 1 DOAA is scum and scumclaimed AND no town doctor healed conftown...Cool your jets.


Mollie, we can take a look at Curiosity tomorrow. I don't think he's conftown but I don't think we are tearing through that facade today. I tried that shit before in InuYasha mafia. Tearing apart bullshit conftowns is nearly impossible but I'll need your help to do it.

A Desperado is a role that targets a player during the day in-thread to perform the following action on. If the target is scum (mafia), then their target is killed. If not, they die in a valiant "desperado" attempt.

That's the entire wiki text for desperado that's explaining the role.

It doesn't say "docs cannot heal".

and there still can't be a fucking doc on top of a gatekeeper and 1x bodyguard anyway. there is just no way in hell

ofc, mastin and/or Ank will mist over this by calling DOAA scum

You've said this is role madness... so you're excluding a doctor... and the possibility of a scum roleblocker or appropriate counterbalancing power. Really? *smack*

Just stop tunnelling reset.

Mod: Could a doctor heal a hypothetical death from a Desperado claim?

Pie, if a doctor cannot stop a desperado attempt from the attacker (Curiosity) then how could a scum doctor heal Action Dan?

A doc can protect the person who is shot by the desperado. They can't protect the desperado from passively dying when they shoot town. The two are different.

~Wis

The wiki makes no such distinction. I literally just had that discussion with Pie and quoted it.

first off, I think I made it pretty clear I was distinguishing between the desperado's kill and the passive death when they attempt to shoot town. her first post:

Which is it? It can heal or it can't.

seems like a very unnatural continuation in a situation where it's obvious we're misinterpreting each other, and I don't understand where she was even going with this question.

but then the way she continued this was even worse. she sits there and insists that it works a certain way just because the wiki doesn't state otherwise. like, WTF? town Titus sometimes uses moonlogic, but she's not outright dense like she is here. (and yes, I'm aware there wasn't enough information available at that point to draw the conclusion desperado wouldn't *necessarily* die upon shooting town, but the wiki is not at all how one would arrive at that conclusion)

overall, I think the best motivation for this exchange is to appear like she's being helpful and actually trying to think through it rationally, without actually doing so. this is typical scum behavior - she's sitting there trying to escalate the conflict that's going on (e.g. with the first post), while trying to appear like she is actually stepping back and considering all the possibilities.

Can y'all seriously slow down on the rate of posting?

Did no one else notice Saki on the posting of her supposed role pm and having zero action taken? That means it must be fake.

I didn't like this either; the first line doesn't really accomplish anything, and I think the best motivation for posting that was, again, to show off how pro-town she is trying to get ppl to stop spamming, without doing anything that actually has town motivation. there's also a kind of "seeking approval" mindset here with the last line that I think is more likely to come from scum than town.

stuff like this basically continues throughout her entire ISO. actually, looking at it from the top, there is a distinct lack of scumhunting, full stop - there's not really much of her giving and pushing her opinions, or attempting to extract information from players - it's all setup spec (which itself is null, but the point here is there is a lack of *actual* scumhunting) and weak lines of questioning that never ~actually~ lead anywhere, similar to the ones I just pointed out. I also think Sakura has a point about PV who is usually a giant lurkfuck as scum (which is what he's doing here) whereas he's generally obvious town as town.

sooooo yeah. I could expand more on this but there's really not much of a point in going through her entire ISO. Mala has a meta townread on Titus which is making me confused as hell bc my scumread here is somewhat based on meta, but I figure I might as well post this anyway .-.

[pieguyn]

oh, and the other thing which I just realized while falling asleep last night

there's a scum doc on the scumteam. Time had a self-bodyguard. am I the only one who doubts both of those roles would be on the same scumteam?

[beastcharizard]

Can someone explain the Birds of Prey vote?

[Curiosity]

lol

It's not as if pie just explained it

~Wis

[beeboy]

VOTE: Birds of Prey

The overall lack of activity is good so I assume this is the right lynch because scum don't want to defend BOP at this point

[beeboy]

Lack of activity is good in the sense that it supports the point I was making just as an FYI

[Ankamius]

Completely disagree with pretty much all the meta reasoning (especially PV), but the rest is solid.

VOTE: Birds of Prey

Losing my grip on the game entirely so I'll just sheep.