[OLD] Open Setup Discussion and Nominations

[Kelly Chen]

Power roles are kinda lame in an open setup if the mafia can't kill. They have little reason not to claim immediately. Then they're never suspected of being scum, and have no way they could die before endgame.

A dayvig in a nightless setup is just kind of like doing half the kills Kingmaker style, except the king never changes, was never picked by anyone but the mod, and is guaranteed innocent.

[yellowbounder]

Aimee er.... Currently Unnamed Setup

1 Mafia Goon*
1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Faith Healer
1 Watcher
5 Townies

*Goon obviously performs the Mafia nightkill.

I think that the Faith Healer, and the RB are a bit harsh in concert.

So either:

2 Goon
1 Faith Healer
1 Watcher
5 Townies

Or:

1 Goon (can only kill)
1 RB (who can kill, or RB)
1 Doctor
1 Watcher
5 Townies

The mafia only one kill per night, and so on.

[Thesp]

nominate Doctor Mafia
3 Mafia
6 Doctors
3 Quacks (if the quacks target a player, they kill them instead of protecting them. A player will not know if they are a quack or not, and their quackery is not revealed upon death).

I like this. A lot. How about making the quack not kill their target

if their target is mafia

? (This variant of the quack was used by mith at MeMeMeet, with different numbers.) Also, nightstart/daystart?

Ban role claiming in any form and you may have a game.

This is never a good fix - it's an indication that something is seriously flawed with the setup.

How about the scum can mason kill? As in, they submit two names, and if they are mason pairs, then both die, if they aren't a mason pair, then the kill fails? Or they can ordinary kill. So, it's a prevention for each pair to claim at once.

I think you're looking at mechanics more tuned for a non-Normal game at this point, but one that's conceivable. Heck, you might make it four mafia, add a mason pair, and make it so that mafia can

only

kill by picking out a mason pair

Pick-Your-Poison C9

2 Mafia
Mafia gets to choose 1(2?) of (Cop, Doc, RB)
4(3?) Townies

Too broken? Doc+RB to powerful? Already done before?

I kind of like the idea of scum picking what they're up against, but I fear that there's a combination that may break the setup.

I like that the mafia know a little bit about what is safe to claim. I think I lean towards making this 2 power roles and 3 townies.

Perhaps give the mafia a single day kill? That gets rid of the day vigi coming out, because then he can actually get killed.

Re: nightless variant, I would want some mechanic that would prevent a "first to PM the mod gets their kill in" scenario. Perhaps if the mafia kill was delayed until the end of the day?

I'm intrigued by Simenon's Vigilante Mafia. I appreciate the elegance of it.

I don't like the faith healer in a 7p game. But a doctor instead could be iffy... Say they lynch the RB day 1. Goon kills a townie. Day 2, the watcher and doctor claim. Lynch a townie. At this point the goon can't win. He can't kill the watcher. If he kills the doctor he'll be seen. If he kills the townie, he's the only unconfirmed player D3.

It's a 9 player game, but I don't like Faith Healers at all (7 player game or no). Still, my distaste isn't justification enough to turn down the role. What if the doc protects on alternating nights? (N1, N3, N5)?

I do like the idea that mafia can't roleblock if one dies.


I'll try to get some thoughts together and pull together a list of games we'll get in the queue soon.

[Simenon]

Nominate Too Much Scum C9

2 Mafia that cannot nightkill
1 Serial killer
1 Serial Killer cop (cop that can only inspect the serial killer)
3 Townies

After testing in scumchat/irc, eight players might be better. I think it's a good setup, though.

I like this. A lot. How about making the quack not kill their target if their target is mafia? (This variant of the quack was used by mith at MeMeMeet, with different numbers.) Also, nightstart/daystart?

I agree that the quacks probably make it tough for the mafia if they can kill.
Night start I think is best. I think SL put it best when he called it a "dethy mutation".

[FeRnAnDo]

I'd like to run this setup as an open game sometime. It was such a sweet game. It deserves an encore with out aces-wild.

And if he's not there, I'm ok not playing too, since i can't kill him regardless.

nice, do it!

[Thesp]

If you really need more variety in the game, why not have a second role available for a recruited townie to become? Say, if a townie is recruited into the mafia, he has a 50% chance of becoming a roleblocker

I missed this in the discussion of Simenon C9, where the mafia recruits a player N0. How about if the mafia recruits a townie, that player becomes a Roleblocker (no 50% here)? Sure, there's still a substantial chance it will look like one of the other C9's, but I like the suspicion that would still fall on a claimed role. Let me know if you think I should run this, and I'll put it up there (or we can tweak it if it needs more work).


Doctor Mafia is being taken and renamed "Quack Mafia" (hope you don't mind!), with NightStart and Quacks will kill Docs instead of protecting them. (However, a Doctor can still cancel a Quack's kill.) Simenon, can you Wikify it when you get the chance?

[yellowbounder]

Have we considered some of the Micro setups? (Now determined to call all 5 player setups Micro)

Like Lyncher/Lynchee +- Mafia? I know these are normally scumchat setups, but would they work in forum?

[yellowbounder]

Fire and Ice Mafia

1 Arsonist (that's a SK variation for you people out there)
1 Frostbiter (like Arsonist, but freezes victim to death)
1 Firefighter (only protects against Arsonist)
1 Thermoser (only protects against Frostbiter)
1 Doctor (protects against both)
4 Townies

The doctor protects against two attack attempts (since he protects against fire and ice).

Making the SKs immune to the other's NK would cause an interesting result, as one cannot be sure whether it was an SK, or there was a successfull protection.

Thoughts?

[YogurtBandit]

Fire and Ice Mafia

1 Arsonist (that's a SK variation for you people out there)
1 Frostbiter (like Arsonist, but freezes victim to death)
1 Firefighter (only protects against Arsonist)
1 Thermoser (only protects against Frostbiter)
1 Doctor (protects against both)
4 Townies

The doctor protects against two attack attempts (since he protects against fire and ice).

Making the SKs immune to the other's NK would cause an interesting result, as one cannot be sure whether it was an SK, or there was a successfull protection.

Thoughts?

Hmm, Im always up for an Arson game, So thats wins you points already.

I was thinking, If they both target someone, that person doesnt die, Be cause the Fire would melt the ice.. That would make it a little easier.

The Ice Rolenames are kind of odd.. Frostbiter? Sounds like a Comic Villan more than an actual threat, and thermoser doesnt make much sense..

Regardless, Its a good setup.

Nominate: Fire and Ice

[yellowbounder]

Thermoser, is reference to having a Thermos Flask -> hot chocolate.
I was thinking of crosskill -> no effect, but this is a small game, and thus crosskill is mildly likely, and would seriously disadvantage the SKs.

[Thok]

I'd like to see a few more C9+2 run (2 scum, 0 or 1 cops, 0 or 1 docs, 5-7 townies, 9 total players).

[Stewie]

Perhaps give the mafia a single day kill? That gets rid of the day vigi coming out, because then he can actually get killed.

Re: nightless variant, I would want some mechanic that would prevent a "first to PM the mod gets their kill in" scenario. Perhaps if the mafia kill was delayed until the end of the day?

I can't really think of a scenario in which that would actually happen, but if we use something like that I think the vigilante kill should be the one delayed, given that he has 1 a day.

[yellowbounder]

I'd like to see a few more C9+2 run (2 scum, 0 or 1 cops, 0 or 1 docs, 5-7 townies, 9 total players).

Only two scum? I know this is obvious, but that's just C9 with two extra townies. Is that balanced? And if it is balanced, how is ordinary C9 balanced?

I mean, C9 games are very mafia, (possibly even

the

mafia setup, if one exists), but is adding two townies balanced, (I'm thinking about the scum here)?

[JDodge]

It's been played as an open game before.

[yellowbounder]

And

Nominate Fire and Ice Mafia

since I'm not sure that preposing a setup means that you've nominated it.

[Kelly Chen]

yellowbounder, there has been criticism of the C9 setup as being biased towards scum.

See a thread like this for instance.

[Guardian]

Fire and Ice v2?

2 Fire Mafia
2 Ice Mafia
1 Temperature normalizer (doc)
6 Normal temperature townies

If the mafia cross kill, the kill is negated. If the mafia both target the same townie, the kill is negated.

[Adel]

Nominate Fire and Ice v2

for the lovely endgame possibilities.

[YogurtBandit]

Fire and Ice v2?

2 Fire Mafia
2 Ice Mafia
1 Temperature normalizer (doc)
6 Normal temperature townies

If the mafia cross kill, the kill is negated. If the mafia both target the same townie, the kill is negated.

I always nominate guardian games.

Second Nominate Fire and Ice V2.

[Mr. Flay]

Nominate Fire and Ice v2

, per Idele. Looks fun.

[Adel]

I hope the doc claims in the first post. That would be awesome.

[yellowbounder]

Awww, you took away the arsonist. But I have no objection to this new setup, although I'm not nominating it, since I prefer the old one.

[YogurtBandit]

Awww, you took away the arsonist. But I have no objection to this new setup, although I'm not nominating it, since I prefer the old one.

Im Fine with either one, As I like 2 Family games and Arson games.

[yellowbounder]

Well, I like SKs, but I suppose a Mafia spin off would be fine.

[yellowbounder]

On a completely unrelated note:

Are Open Games hated or something?

The Open Game queue is rather quiet. Is that because most players stay away or something, or do people dislike Open format? I think it's rather inactive compared to the sheer speed that the Mini queues have.