Open 21 - Friends and Enemies (Game Over), before 453

[Patrick]

Mod doesn't have enough time right now to write a night scene =P Might be able to do it later. For now:

A Papaya (Mason) has been killed in some way night 2.

It is day 3. With 7 alive, 4 votes will be enough for a lynch.

[Lowell]

vote Lawrence

I've listened to Albert long enough.

I really can't believe we didnt' do this yesterday.

[Sir Tornado]

vote Lawrence

I've listened to Albert long enough.

I really can't believe we didnt' do this yesterday.

Why Lawrencelot? Why not Adel? Any difference between them, or are you totally convinced that they are the two scum (as you said yesterday) and you don't care in which order they are lynched?

[Lowell]

I am. And I don't.

Adel is fine too.

[Albert B. Rampage]

LOL >.>

I don't understand why I wasn't killed. I'm getting paranoid :S

[Albert B. Rampage]

Is the scum so confident as to let me live ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Looking back, Lawrencelot does look very scummy when he said:

3: No. I will not let you lead the town. No one should do that, and especially not you. Even though I believe you are mason now, you definately did not act pro-town the whole game, and you definately don't deserve to become the leader of the town. If I wasn't wrong all the time, I would laugh at this proposal, but I have no rights to do that now.

And then he says I was going to decide his vote that day ? That doesn't make any sense.

Vote: Lawrencelot

[Adel]

Does it make sense for me to continue to trail you? I would like an answer before I put Law at -1 to lynch.

[Lawrencelot]

Er, ABR, there are many scummier things I did than the example you gave here. That example isn't worth it to vote me.

I am still a townie, and I can't give a much better defense than I already did, except: if I was scum, I would have killed ABR. Not that it makes a big difference. Lynch me, and town will lose, because I am no scum. I also don't know who is scum, so I am not very useful. The only things I can do for town now is answering questions, cuz I don't think I can find scum. Lowell's style seems a bit scummy to me, but I'm not sure if this opinion is objective.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Noooo nobody follow me LOL

Er, ABR, there are many scummier things I did than the example you gave here

lol that makes me laugh.

[Adel]

*shrug* in that case, we still have a lurker

vote:bird1111

His last post here was Wed Jun 06, he made some posts in other games last Tuesday, and yesterday.

I am still all abut pressuring the lurker.

[Lowell]

Gee, adel doesn't want to vote Lawrence today. Imagine my surprise.

[Adel]

I'll tell you what Lowell, if ABR tells me to vote for Law I will. Until then I'll vote for who I choose. I don't understand how you are on the confirmed townie list, and it would make sense for you to push for a Adel+Law lynch if you were scum with bird1111, no?

[bird1111]

Sorry for my lack of posting; was on two different vacations without access with little time imbetween.

[Ripley]

At the moment I still think Lawrencelot is probably the best lynch. However, if Adel continues to say this sort of thing:

I'll tell you what Lowell, if ABR tells me to vote for Law I will.

.. I might well vote for her instead. Adel, I would really like to see you take responsibility for your own vote. As Lowell has already indirectly noted, we get much more useful information about you that way. If you are effectively proxying your vote to another player we learn nothing. This was one of the mistakes that were made yesterday; not only was an active and helpful townie speedlynched, but we didn't even get the usual side benefits of a mislynch, ie looking to see whose votes were responsible for the lynch, and whether the timing and reasoning behind their votes were credible or suspicious, consistent with their earlier posts or inconsistent. Other than Sir Tornado, the voters were all Obeying Orders, and thus evade responsibility. We learned nothing.

Looking forward to hearing from bird1111.

[Adel]

Ripley, I'm all about pressuring Bird1111, just like I was yesterday when I advised against a quick-lynch, when I was in an "Obey or Hang" environment. Now Lowell is attacking me for not wanting to vote Law, and you are attacking me for wanting to vote Law by following ABR. Which sin am I guilty of? Either way, right now all that seperates me from Law is a coin-flip, and the winner today will be the looser tomorrow. If Law is scum, and we aren't both innocent, his lynch and my mislynch will leave the town in a hairy position with no masons left, and Lowell, Bird1111 and Sir Tornado being the final three. If Law and I are both scum, the game is over already. If Law and I are both innocent, lynching both of us is a scum win. Looking hard right now at bird1111 is a damn good idea, and Sir Tornado and Lowell as well. All three were for the A Papaya lynch along with Law and I, and I don't see how they got their pass. This game is not solved.

[Ripley]

Now Lowell is attacking me for not wanting to vote Law, and you are attacking me for wanting to vote Law by following ABR.

Adel, I was quite specific about what I was attacking you for: for following another player with your vote. The fact that it's Lawrence who would currently be the recipient of that vote is actually irrelevant, though I would hope the fact of his being on 2 votes already, with only 4 needed to lynch, would act as a further deterrent to you. Presumably you don't want another day abruptly cut short? We don't know a thing yet about what bird1111 thinks. About

anything

.

If you eventually come to your own conclusions that you want to vote Lawrence, that's a completely different matter from voting him blindly because another player is.

You're likely to get attacked today because you're near the top of most people's suspect list. The answer to this is not to say "all right then, I'll do whatever Albert tells me". If you're innocent, another day of slavish obedience is unlikely, as you seem to realise, to do any more than postpone the inevitable. Personally I'd much rather see you play independently and make your own case. I won't necessarily agree with it, and you may of course get lynched anyway, but at least you'd leave a record of your own suspicions and votes, which would be much more use to us.

Sir Tornado and Lowell as well. All three were for the A Papaya lynch along with Law and I, and I don't see how they got their pass.

It was really the behavior of you and Lawrence following the second claim that's got you where you are now. You were both actively trying to lynch one of two masons who confirmed each other, in the absence of even a single counterclaim.

[Adel]

It was really the behavior of you and Lawrence following the second claim that's got you where you are now. You were both actively trying to lynch one of two masons who confirmed each other, in the absence of even a single counterclaim.

And ryan was too. What are the chances

all three scum

would make a push like that? I think even two scum players would be silly to do that, which is why I reservations about voting for Law. There were three other players on that bandwagon. Sir Tornado was also on the Aimee wagon. Lowell is seen as innocent because I tried to coordinate with him day 1. His timing for ducking out of the Papaya wagon seems a little suspect to me, as it fits the profile of what I'd expect if Law were scum with ryan. Bird1111 left his vote on Papaya and didn't post

here

for almost two weeks, and was not replaced. How does that happen? Intentional lurking?

Law could very well be scum, for the same reasons that the rest of you think I'm scum. But it would be a mistake to lynch me, and it may be a game-breaking mistake to lynch both of us.

It is time to look at behavior outside of day 1. The first step towards doing that is to actually get some behavior out of bird111. Hence my vote, which I am happy with.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I wouldn't say we learned nothing. Looking at the Aimee bandwagon, there was me, papaya, Lawrencelot, I find it slightly suspicious that Sir T would vote Aimee after this post I made:

Albert, are you suggesting a lynch on Aimee based on that one post only?

I believe that lynching Aimee will provide us with far more information than anybody else.

If Aimee turns scum, Bird is immediately town. Adel is very close to cleared. You become a possible scum.

If Aimee turns town, you are immediately town.

With two shots remaining and only Adel, Lawrencelot and Bird left, we have a confirmed victory.

To this, he replies:

Albert, so, if I am to understand, you are suggesting lynching Aimee, not so because you think she is a scum, but because you feel that the game might open up and everything will become clear based on result of Aimee's allignment?

I find it a bit ridiculous that he votes Aimee as soon as I say this, because was acting very independently until that point. Eg:

You will have to

convince

me about Aimee. Look, I know you are a mason, I do not suspect that. But, I think I sense a touch of over confidence in your play today.

My logic doesn't make a damn sense, and he jumped on it too fast. Going from a stance of non-compliance to jumping on Aimee and -1-ing her is ridiculously scummy. With Papaya as the NK, it would make sense that he left me alive because of the quote in italic above.

I am leaning on Lawrencelot/Sir Tornado as a scum pair now. Keeping vote on Law.

[Albert B. Rampage]

EBWOP

Me, Adel, Lawrencelot, Papaya, Sir Tornado*

[Albert B. Rampage]

Sorry for all mistakes, contradictions(slightly scummy then very scummy), etc. in that post, I am sooo tired and drunk :S

[Lawrencelot]

Look, ABR thinks I could be scum with Sir Tornado, if I were in someone else's position I could think that too. But Lowell thinks I'm scum with Adel, which I find ridiculous. I wanted to lynch Adel at the beginning of D2, and you can't call that distancing because I promised I would keep my vote on her if you wanted it.

I will follow Ripley's advice, and not follow anyone.

Vote: Lowell

FOS: Bird111

ABR, do you still think town can win if I get lynched? Cuz I am town, and when I get lynched one mason will be left while 2 scum are left. I will ask the same question I asked D2: who will you go after when I turn out to be town?

[Lawrencelot]

EBWOP: I mean, I will follow Ripley's advice, and not follow anyone's voting.

[Sir Tornado]

I wouldn't say we learned nothing. Looking at the Aimee bandwagon, there was me, papaya, Lawrencelot, I find it slightly suspicious that Sir T would vote Aimee after this post I made:

Albert, are you suggesting a lynch on Aimee based on that one post only?

I believe that lynching Aimee will provide us with far more information than anybody else.

If Aimee turns scum, Bird is immediately town. Adel is very close to cleared. You become a possible scum.

If Aimee turns town, you are immediately town.

With two shots remaining and only Adel, Lawrencelot and Bird left, we have a confirmed victory.

To this, he replies:

Albert, so, if I am to understand, you are suggesting lynching Aimee, not so because you think she is a scum, but because you feel that the game might open up and everything will become clear based on result of Aimee's allignment?

I find it a bit ridiculous that he votes Aimee as soon as I say this, because was acting very independently until that point. Eg:

You will have to

convince

me about Aimee. Look, I know you are a mason, I do not suspect that. But, I think I sense a touch of over confidence in your play today.

My logic doesn't make a damn sense, and he jumped on it too fast. Going from a stance of non-compliance to jumping on Aimee and -1-ing her is ridiculously scummy. With Papaya as the NK, it would make sense that he left me alive because of the quote in italic above.

I am leaning on Lawrencelot/Sir Tornado as a scum pair now. Keeping vote on Law.

Perhaps you left out this little post of yours in between me agreeing to vote for Aimee and your post you just quoted?

All I asked is for you guys to close your eyes for one day, trust me and vote Aimee.

[Sir Tornado]

In case anyone is wondering, the one line post of ABR I just quoted was post 679.

Let me reconstruct the exact sequence that led to Aimee's lynching:

Post 676:

I question ABR why he wants me (and everyone else) to vote for Aimee so badly, based on evidence of just one post.

Post 677:

ABR replies:

I believe that lynching Aimee will provide us with far more information than anybody else.

If Aimee turns scum, Bird is immediately town. Adel is very close to cleared. You become a possible scum.

If Aimee turns town, you are immediately town. With two shots remaining and only Adel, Lawrencelot and Bird left, we have a confirmed victory.

Post 678

A Papaya agrees with my earlier assessment that ABR is getting too overconfident in lynching Aimee (I made that comment about ABR getting overconfident in post 665)

Post 679

ABR makes the following post:

All I asked is for you guys to close your eyes for one day, trust me and vote Aimee.

Post 682

I question ABR on whether the Aimee lynch is because ABR feels she is a scum or because it is a strategic lynch on his part.

Posts 681 and 682

A Papaya basically says Aimee may be town, but we may know a lot by lynching her.

Post 683

ABR replies that Aimee lynch is basically strategic, but he also feels that it was his hunch that Aimee was scum.

Post 686

I vote for Aimee.

Post 689

A Papaya drops the hammer after asking ABR.

Through out this discussion, ABR led me to believe that he was lynching Aimee because it was good for the game and it would help to identify the remaining scum, rather than because he felt she was a scum strongly, and he even accepted that there Lawrencelot looked more scummy than Aimee. If you notice my earlier comments, I had repeatedly said that I would not vote for Aimee unless he convinced me to vote for her. I voted for her only because ABR felt (and I agree with him) that it would open the game up and give us a clear path for day 3.

Hasn't it done that?

I've got one question for ABR...

Had Aimee turned out to be a scum (after the exact sequence of events that we have now) would you be voting me as the remaining scum? (considering that I voted for Aimee?)