Micro 407: Jurassic Park Mafia - Game Over

[Mathdino]

Actually, scratch that, insanity townflip gives pretty much nothing as well. Regardless, point stands.

[Beck]

That looks more like Beck just being Beck.

If that's true why give intent to hammer?

[Mathdino]

Read his posts, Beck, he was fishing for reactions out of me. He never would've hammered.

[Mathdino]

I want to note that if Scripten is scum and thus can't provide confirmation tomorrow, the correct play there (if you're town) would be to hammer because he'll die tomorrow anyway.

[ArcAngel9]

fferyllt replaces FinnLaw. this is effective immediately.
Due the size of the game and to give fair chance for fferyllt to catchup. the deadline for d1 is extended until the weekend.

[ArcAngel9]

VOTE COUNT - 1.18

Scripten-

BlueBloodedToffee-

Grib-

Pine

Beck-

fferyllt, Majiffy, BlueBloodedToffee

Pine-

FinnLaw-

Majiffy-

insanity018, Grib, , Scripten

Mathdino-

Not Voting

Beck,Mathdino

With 9 alive it takes 5 for a lynch and 4 for no lynch.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2014-11-09 09:36:00)

[fferyllt]

hi guys.

catching up!

UNVOTE:

[Grib]

V/LA is over. Yay.

Also hi ffery.

[fferyllt]

has their ever been a micro with 3 scum? if yes i'd love to see that game

I played a themed micro once with 2 scum and 2 3rd parties. Also played a themed micro with two scum and an SK.

Set-up speculation is not good for town.

We should stop doing it.

Is this the bitter experience of a certain mini normal speaking?

page 3, and I like scripten. Beck seems pretty paranoid, which I tend to think town. Or 3rd party. Are we thinking 3rd party is a thing for reals? Post 60 is either coming from town or from a scum who has internalized the hell out of a fake claim. Wondering if AA9 provides fake claims when she sends out role pms or if she waits to be asked.

All I know is that non-Herbivores must die.

More votes on the fleshchewer BBT.

And for the record, I have been in a micro on this site with a scumteam and a Serial Killer.

This post is the one I really dislike Scripten.

It's like 'Well, I'm town and I'm a herbivore, so everyone else needs to die'.

But it seems scum are omnivores

, so if he were scum don't you think he would know a town carnivore would speak up?

I will concede bringing up the idea of scum/3rd party does concern me a little but seeing him explain how he got there calmed those concerns

Why did you think the bolded?

Yawn.

Do you always suck at reading people this badly? I can see why you got defensive when I voted you.

This post bothers me. Scripten has his vote on beck, but this comment doesn't assume beck is scum. Which makes the comment about being defensive not fit. It's an extremely mixed narrative.

Except I never got defensive, and I don't appreciate you insulting me. Do it again and ill report you to the mod

Wasn't insulting you, bud. It's your play I was insulting. Your read is so far off it's laughable and you haven't got a leg to stand on.

I voted you, and you responded with an OMGUS vote that you tried to cover up with a half-baked excuse of a case to play it off as something else. Got anything better or are you just going to call me dense and cry when I tell you that your play is poor?

And more. :/

Oh it posted lmaoo my computer was being weird sorry. Just RVS VOTE: Scripten because aggressiveness is kinda bleh

Don't like the above much. So much real data in the thread to inform a vote.

@Scripten - how many reads would you expect someone to have formed at the point where you asked beck for more reads and less setup spec?

I like beck's 124. Town thought process IMO.

I don't like 129 by mathdino.

131 - I like this post because thinking what I'm thinking when I'm thinking it.

Got free time faster than expected

No real reads as yet, but I may pass out from all of the stupid fumes being given off from is thread. Even if the mod didn't outright state that it's not carnivores vs herbivores etc,

someone outright herpderping that they're a carnivore would've made that obvious.

Scum would have to be absolute blithering morons to advertise it otherwise

In fact...yeah. I take it back. Mild townread on Gribble for herpderping, moderate scum read on Blueblood for unreasonable pouncing

Vote: BluebloodedToffee

What are you talking about in the bolded?

This post feels mega defensive (possibly white knighting Grib?) to me.

VOTE: Pine

P-edit: To my understanding, scum are the dinosaurs which don't follow the park rules. They can be herbivores, carnivores or omnivores --> the type of dinosaur is not alignment indicative

Not really sure how it's possible to be defensive when I wasn't being attacked. What was meant by the bolder was that, even if we didn't know per Mod that -vote status wasn't alignment indicative, someone coming out and saying "I'm a carnivore" should be a clue to that effect. It would otherwise be playing against wincon and tantamount to saying "BTW I'm scum"

This thread is moving annoyingly fast. If people could keep all of the personal shit out of it, and make their posts on-topic and worth reading, it would be a lot easier to stay current.

Beck? We've had issues in the past. Talking to you as well as others on this. Please don't pick unnecessary fights and clog up the thread with nonsense

Grib? Stop engaging.

BBT barreling ahead on flavor alone makes me very, very content wi my vote. It's staying on him.

By the way, BBT, I didn't actually defend Grib, more or less at all. I called you out for scummy logic, which you're continuing with

^^ The last line here is pretty much the definition of chainsawing, no?

I mean he knows grib's role pm directly contradicts the pm he supposedly has, yet he believes grib is telling the truth amd isn't suspicious about it.

Town would be suspicious of that, whenever somebody contradicts a town role pm, that means the person is lying.

The alternative would mean that script is being naive but I dont see that as a possibility.

P.edit - By default yes, not by their play

Do you often play themed games?

No, because is don't feel it has merit. It's you using a buzzword.

As for your OMGUS, I came out hard against you, and now you're throwing whatever you can at me to see what sticks. I calls it likes I sees it

^^ The irony here amuses me.

I like to get town-reads and work with those town-reads.

Helps me narrow down the pool I need to lynch from to find scum.

It bothers me a little that you saw what Pine was doing as buddying, given this. :/

186 - more thinking what I'm thinking. I'm a little less enthused because of his own parallelism fail, though.

Town -> Scripten, Beck, Insanity

Null -> Finn, Math, Yung

Scum -> Grib, Pine

In order. So Finn is closer to town and Yung closer to scum. Math a true null.

At this point, my off the cuff reads are

Town:

Grib

Beck

Maybe Town:

Insanity (will need to see more here before I can say town, but I like what she's posted so far)

Scripten

BBT

Not So Town:

MathDino

Yung

Pine

Mathdino's 235:

I hate the reasons for the insanity townread even though I'm townreading insanity at this point. And I don't like the conclusion paragraph, though it's possible we develop reads really, really differently. This post didn't do anything to change her placement in my reads list.

And page 10 ends with an L-1 wagon and a claim. :/ Unseemly haste, guys.

I'll post my catch up in 10 page chunks and see how that goes.

[Majiffy]

Dont make me a sad jiffy now, ffery. I was already scumreading your slot and your reads are backassward.

[fferyllt]

When do we ever agree on day 1?

[fferyllt]

Also, if you're going to diss my reads, kindly do so with details.

[Majiffy]

Finish catching up first.

[Beck]

Why did you think the bolded?

Misread the mods post and.thought that was what she said.

No I don't play many themes

[fferyllt]

Why did you think the bolded?

Misread the mods post and.thought that was what she said.

No I don't play many themes

That kinda helps put some of your posts into perspective.

[fferyllt]

I have him and BBT as unaligned pairs.

Why are you asking easy questions?

^^ What was it about the 2 posts that gave you the feel of unaligned pairs? Why do you feel like it couldn't be town vs town?

255 - I like this post.

257 - this reminds me. I replaced into a game where beck-scum had replaced out recently. One huge difference in his play here vs there is how much less in-your-face he was there.


262 - Scripten, why were you more sure Pine was town here?

263 - if beck is involved in another L-1 grandstand in the next 30 or so pages I'm probably going to want to put my vote where Finn had it.

If it makes no sense, why did you unvote?

P.edit - I know you arent l-1, doesn't matter. People unvoted you cause you soft claimed and it doesn't work like that. Your partner umvoted first, causing insanity to also unvote.

Proper play is a person refuses to claim = death by lynch.

If mafia were played by hard and fast rules like this, it would be an easy game for scum and a boring game for town.

Page 12, and Pine looks a lot better. Grib looks worse.

309 makes my head hurt. Beck am I gathering correctly that you come from a chatmafia background?

311 is dramatic as fuck, but drips town IMO.

320 trips one of my pet peeves.

329 it's maaaybe possible my vote would have been here if I had been in the game at that point, but the composition of yung's wagon here gives me pause. But, I really like the explanation in BBT's 332 because this is what I disliked about yung's RVS post.

man you guys sure like flashwagons (page 14).

352 <3 my predecessor. Totally agree with the first paragraph.

357 however, I can see someone voting a person because they dislike something they don't think is alignment indicative.

OK so in the meantime we lose 2 townies before we Lynch scum, that's not a trade off I'm on with

This looks like a scum slip, maybe. :/


But, beck's page 16 posts are so stubborn and singleminded (and thoroughly wrongheaded) that I want to call him town anyway.

Also, nobody else picked up that potential slip?

Welcome to the game, Majiffy!

BBT:

Wait, you're scumreading Beck, Grib, and Majiffy's slot? Can you give a rundown on their order of scuminess? Just curious.

Do you base your reads on how many scum think are in the game?

411 pings.

420 also pings, mostly for moving the vote. I know some players think that voteliness is next to godliness, but it still bugs me when people move their vote rather than unvote and regroup.

421 has a lining up lynches feel to it.

Single minded? No
Speaking the truth? Yes

Cop/tracker/watcher/role blocker/doc/gunsmith/bodyguard/big

None of those are confirmable. Some would argue big could be bu that could be SK.

There's not a single role that is ACTUALLY confirmable, that can't be confirmed today.

This is a very short list of possible roles. And there are some confirmable roles that can't be confirmed on day 1. There are more roles that are confirmable wrt actions but not 100% confirmable as to alignment. But, mafia isn't a game of blacks and whites, except wrt to the role cards themselves. Players are all shades of grey. That's why it's a social game.

Page 18 and 19 BBT goes from pretty mild townreading of my predecessor to hard-defending Finn. This makes me feel really odd.

486 comes off incredibly town to me.

It

is

fucking scummy because he claims he can prove it.

Why don't you get this.

Its not though, it town believes every soft claim, scum would never get lynched.

I get you don't share my opinion, just like I don't share yours but scum HAVE gotten lynched while fake claiming that means town players exsist that share my opinion. Saying my opinion is scummy is factually wrong cause I have proved it wrong

I've seen scum fake claim considerably more often than soft claim. I've seen town softclaim more often than I've seen scum softclaim.

It's all anecdote, and you haven't proven anything at all. Neither have I. Neither has anyone else. Claims and softclaims come in the context of the player's play prior to the claim and after.

And that's page 20.

[Mathdino]

486 was the mod.

[Scripten]

Beck seems pretty paranoid, which I tend to think town. Or 3rd party. Are we thinking 3rd party is a thing for reals?

Interesting. I never considered the third party angle. Why do you think his play might correspond with a third party?

This post bothers me. Scripten has his vote on beck, but this comment doesn't assume beck is scum. Which makes the comment about being defensive not fit. It's an extremely mixed narrative.

Scum make reads, too. They're just fabricated instead of genuine like the town's reads. That said, I no longer scumread Beck like I had then, for clarity.

@Scripten - how many reads would you expect someone to have formed at the point where you asked beck for more reads and less setup spec?

I didn't have a number in mind. I picked a player that stood out and pushed for more information to move the game further. It... worked, but not exactly how I was expecting it to, tbh.

262 - Scripten, why were you more sure Pine was town here?

His reaction to my vote read townie. Specifically, that he reacted at all. Seems to me that scum would, upon realizing that my vote was an obvious reaction test, just avoid commenting on it at all.

Do you base your reads on how many scum think are in the game?

Not sure what you mean by this?

[Beck]

309 makes my head hurt. Beck am I gathering correctly that you come from a chatmafia background?

Nope, 2010 to present mafia scum
2007 or 2008 to 2010 - another forum.

I mean I did play epicmafia some but mainly trolled

[fferyllt]

I'm going to respond to this post separately because of it's length and content.

Alright, reads.

Grib:

His defence of hopping on the Scripten wagon was slightly WIFOMy but I'm not getting the wagon on him. He seems like just a medium activity townie who's speaking his mind. He still hasn't answered to one thing though:

Grib, what ARE your reasons for voting Scripten back there?

Can you give some examples of town speaking his mind posts?

Beck:

I said it before, I really don't like Beck given the ISO of him/Scripten. But pushing a possible PR lynch like this is plain anti-town. Softclaiming is not a scumtell. Scripten isn't even scummy. I'm confident with this vote.
VOTE: Beck

And what was the scum motivation for Beck making such a huge bag of noise out of himself, to the point where some players at this point talk about voting him just to get him out of the game? Also, have you meta'd him? Because I have a beck scum game you might be interested in. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=58487 bonus: it's my most recent scum game as well.

Scripten

, like I said, very much reads town. Question though,

Scripten, can you restate the reasons for going after Grib

?

Overall he reads town, but there were some posts on page 4 or 5 or so that gave me a little pause when I did my readthrough.

BBT

's meta seems pretty consistent when it comes to his tone and aggressiveness, but at the very least it looks like he's pushing a town agenda. Not really seeing scum motivation in his Grib-tunneling, and very much not seeing it in the fact that he's been townreading people a lot this game.

Ok, so you are a meta player. Now I'm very curious what games of Beck's you meta'd.

I can't say I agree with insanity's case on

FinnLaw

, because while it may be true that this post was useless, useless =/= scummy. I'm finding it difficult to see FinnLaw purposefully manufacturing that post and fluffing it up, he reads like town trying to consolidate his thoughts on the game.

This is a much more nuanced read the prior ones. hmm.

Got nothin on Pine and Majiffy, obv not willing to lynch a replacement this soon.

Pine had put a fair bit into the game thread at this point. Why are you lumping him with a lurky slot you're not willing to lynch yet.

insanity

is pinging me but I'm having issues explaining it. I think my main issue is her case on FinnLaw; it seems rather opportunistic, and she's been consistently going after people who are being useless rather than scummy. She had a scumread on Beck earlier but nothing came of that, instead making a case on Finn and then wagoning Yung.

FoS: her

Don't like this either.

I don't like either of your main scumreads here.

This is where I'd have my vote at this point in my readthrough.

[Mathdino]

Spoiler: 1. I don't remember exactly what posts I meant back then, but looking back, I do like these posts.

This is irritating. Let's get back to killing BBT.

Spoiler: kill

Grib saw this and assumed that Herbivores must be town.

Grib is scum. Votes on Grib please.

Refuses to acknowledge the possibility that I'm town. He has yet to present a reason why what I did was a scumslip specifically rather than a general derp.

That's how it looks to me.

Just calling it how I see it.

Low-hanging fruit...on page 3...

Not sure if serious...

Now attempting to back off, trying to weasel out of his strong scumread of me.

Fantastic.

Can you tell me why you're so sure he isn't scum?

Irritated that nobody jumped onto my wagon with him. And now he's trying to force Pine to justify his townread of me, rather than giving an actual reason why I'm scum since his one (1) original reason is, at best, smoke.

Also exaggerating Pine's townread of me, when Pine himself stated it was mild.

I think he has a scum PM.

I think he used the intro flavour to guess that townies would be Herbivores based on the colours used in the intro post.

I am an Herbivore and made an assumption based on the flavor.

Moving on.

I think he has tried to word it to look like a town-slip when it's actually a scum-slip.

Now you're just reaching.

I think he got a scum PM based on the following sentences you quoted.

It's alignment indicative because he has tried to use that to make himself look like town, or that he has town-slipped, but I see it as a scum-slip.

PEdit - Beck, I have made that mistake before. Every time I read Scripten's questioning, it makes me want to scum-read him. Give him time to get into the game before you read him too hard.

How did I try to use it to make myself look town? My intention was to use the information I thought I had to lynch scum.

Also, BBT's handwaving and reluctance to immediately pounce on an admitted possible scumread, unlike what he's been doing to me, has been noted.

Mod has said dinosaur eating habits are not alignment indicative.

Then I was wrong.

OK, well I don't think I can explain it any better than I have already tried.

aka I have no actual reason besides this pile of bullshit.

Beck is being way too self-defensive and his vote on Scripten is super weak. If BBT flips scum, Beck dies next.

@Mathdino

I find it weird your first townread is insanity. She hasn't really done anything especially towny.

How am I "unnecessarily" tunneling? I want BBT dead, I've given my reasons why, and he is blatantly ignoring half of those reasons, lying, and reaching for bullshit evidence. He has one reason to scumread me and it sucks.

But I can come back to him later, since apparently town is blind.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Scripten

I will ride this wagon.

248 doesn't make sense to me.

If you're not concerned with getting shot, why don't you want to claim? Why is it rolefishing if people want you to claim before deciding to lynch you? You either get lynched and flip town, get shot and flip town (in which case your power is moot) or live and are "revealed" or whatever as town. Because if you're not, you will be lynched.

Don't see how Beck is rolefishing here. Also love how you're capitalizing on BBT's idiot!tunnel without giving a fuck as to the reasons I have for him being wrong or scum.

The majority of toDay has revolved around Beck being wrong and BBT being wrong.

I want BBT to die. I've given my reasons. If Scripten is not 100% townfirmed toMorrow, I want him to die as well, and fast. Do not listen to anything he says if he is not confirmed. I don't want Beck or Mathdino to die, even though Beck can't be bothered to switch on his brain. He probably shouldn't be around for endgame if he keeps tunneling people for dumb reasons, so that's something to consider. Everyone else is varying shades of lynchable.

That's really all I have to say about the gamestate.

2. Haven't meta'd him, no. Scum motivation was to strongarm a claim out of a townish player.

3. I've played with FinnLaw and BBT before, thus a higher quality of their reads. The probability of me metaing someone is directly proportional to A. my frustratedness at figuring them out, and B. the amount of effort I put into the game.

4. Because of the lower number of posts he'd made, I couldn't get a read yet. They looked like they could easily come from any alignment.

5. insanity read had a lot to do with the fact that I felt the Finn wagon was unwarranted and a bit iffy. IIRC my FoS on her was nixed in the next page, not sure if I mentioned that.

6 (there was no six but whatever). Yeah, my posts lack content and general quality. My townishness is pretty much directly proportional to how much effort I feel like putting in, and tbh, this game's clusterfuck demotivated me from wanting to figure it out. Also why I'm procrastinating on my own read of the game (and reads in general). Then lack of effort snowballs into being even more confused, thus my half giving up for D1 and going after yung's slot.

[fferyllt]

Beck seems pretty paranoid, which I tend to think town. Or 3rd party. Are we thinking 3rd party is a thing for reals?

Interesting. I never considered the third party angle. Why do you think his play might correspond with a third party?

Third party was being talked about at that point, which was why it occurred to me. Thinking about my own tendencies when I get a 3rd party role, I could see a 3rd Party player jumping hard on every little thing. As the game is unfolding so far, I'm not getting the feeling of odd sorts of eddies in the reads that multifaction usually generates.

This post bothers me. Scripten has his vote on beck, but this comment doesn't assume beck is scum. Which makes the comment about being defensive not fit. It's an extremely mixed narrative.

Scum make reads, too. They're just fabricated instead of genuine like the town's reads. That said, I no longer scumread Beck like I had then, for clarity.

You weren't pushing him about fake reads. It felt like you were pushing him about being bad town, not scum. That sometimes happens to me. I won't realize I've flipped over to a town read until I actually read my post and see that I'm talking to the person like I think they are town. Sometimes I do it intentionally to see what sorts of echoes I get back when I treat a player like they're town.

This was the one thing that really felt off about your play. Otherwise I've liked most of your posts up through page 20-ish.

@Scripten - how many reads would you expect someone to have formed at the point where you asked beck for more reads and less setup spec?

I didn't have a number in mind. I picked a player that stood out and pushed for more information to move the game further. It... worked, but not exactly how I was expecting it to, tbh.

Ok. Was curious why you picked out that particular player, but "that stood out" is a decent enough reason.

262 - Scripten, why were you more sure Pine was town here?

His reaction to my vote read townie. Specifically, that he reacted at all. Seems to me that scum would, upon realizing that my vote was an obvious reaction test, just avoid commenting on it at all.

What was your read prior to that?

Do you base your reads on how many scum think are in the game?

Not sure what you mean by this?

I wondered because at the point where your scumpile had 2 players, mine had 3. They can't all be scum unless there's something really odd about the game set up, but I'm not pushing one of them to null just because 3 are too many. So I was wondering if you were fitting your reads into your expectations for the set up.

[Scripten]

Third party was being talked about at that point, which was why it occurred to me. Thinking about my own tendencies when I get a 3rd party role, I could see a 3rd Party player jumping hard on every little thing. As the game is unfolding so far, I'm not getting the feeling of odd sorts of eddies in the reads that multifaction usually generates.

I've actually never played a game here with a third party before, so I haven't any clue on how to tell if they are in the game or how to hunt them yet.

You weren't pushing him about fake reads. It felt like you were pushing him about being bad town, not scum. That sometimes happens to me. I won't realize I've flipped over to a town read until I actually read my post and see that I'm talking to the person like I think they are town. Sometimes I do it intentionally to see what sorts of echoes I get back when I treat a player like they're town.

Hm... I was scumreading him at that point, I remember for a fact. Perhaps a subconscious thing, but I can't really postulate further.

What was your read prior to that?

Light town read, close to null. He moved into a more solid town slot after that test.

I wondered because at the point where your scumpile had 2 players, mine had 3. They can't all be scum unless there's something really odd about the game set up, but I'm not pushing one of them to null just because 3 are too many. So I was wondering if you were fitting your reads into your expectations for the set up.

I'll be honest, I've been treating this game like a 2-scum setup, just because that's what I'm used to. If it were a 3-scum setup, things may change, but I'd need some time to think about interactions before making any judgement calls.

Also, was your reference to (486) a typo or a joke? I mean, the mod is the most confirmed alignment we've got in this game, for sure.

[fferyllt]

I like MathDino's page 22 'hey let's slow down' regarding the beck wagon at L-1. Where was this concern earlier? Note to self - check back and see if she was posting at the same time as the earlier wagons.

524 damn it I hate when my scumreads post really town stuff. :/

538 - there's some truth to the bit about SK hunting.

It's exactly that because he's been coasting on that reason for literally the entire game. I asked him for other reasons and he failed to deliver anything.

Finn

is lynchable

but not my first choice.

The bolded pings, but otherwise on this page I'm getting lots of frustrated townie vibes.

564First post by insanity to bug me.

566Another reason to townread MathDino. :/

567This may be a pretty decent case on Grib. I want to dig into this a little more once I've finished my readthrough.

Bbt looks desperate to me

Why?

Grib's 585 is pretty persuasive on the face of it. Adding this to my dig-into list.

624 I feel like I have to be misunderstanding something here. 626 clears it up.

if not one I can get behind

The if implies you can get behind it.

Now my grammar and language usage is pretty bad though

No it doesn't imply that.

665 there is a fair bit of recent majiffy town meta that this can be said about.

Can you both just answer each other? Because this is seriously annoying.

^^ Pretty much sums up my feelings about the last 2-3 pages.

^dat scumpost

Like I said, Grib's in "anyone but me" mode. I don't feel inclined to oblige

I can definitely see this PoV. However, I co-modded a newbie game where scum-Grib snowed most of town to win the game. From memory, his play this game isn't at all similar. Note to self - review that game.

Readthrough is complete through page 30. I'm probably going to start responding to the game like it's real time for the last 10 pages prior to my catch-up.

[fferyllt]

Also, was your reference to (486) a typo or a joke? I mean, the mod is the most confirmed alignment we've got in this game, for sure.

was a typo, but would have made a great joke. I meant 483.