433: Dry, bland, generic mafia: Game Over

[Off the Mark]

@Pie

Given that inHim is at lynch-1 I am having a hard time understanding your post. You don't want him to claim because Dodgy already claimed? How is that relevant?

And you think his refusal to claim is scummy, (I agree) but you still don't want him to claim? You seem to just want him to get hammered without claiming - how is that helpful?

[inHimshallibe]

Claims shouldn't make or break your arguments, so I won't claim - if you think I should be lynched, then you think I should be lynched, right?

[Off the Mark]

A good claim with no counters would be enough to make me change my vote though. Trying to figure out what's going on with your refusal to claim is just WIFOM.

[inHimshallibe]

Ok, then.

I am Spartacus.

[weekend]

[Off the Mark]

Joke reply - Didn't you see that movie? You're sure to get countered with that claim. Heck, "I AM SPARTACUS!"

Seriously reply - You look scummier than ever. First you act like you're trying to help the town by not claiming, and I was starting to believe you. Now you make a mockery of the process which is definitely anti-town behavior.

[inHimshallibe]

[/weekend]

Ha, I am helping. I guess I'm a little less graceful in some areas compared to others, but I'm positive I'm making the right decision here.

[weekend for realz this time, y'hear?]

[gorckat]

I'm thinking Pie doesn't want to chance inHim to claim because the scum could end up with more info than would be good for the town...still rolling around some scenarios in my head, but I think I agree with his stance.

I haven't Devil's Advocated myself yet, so I'm not putting out rationale yet, if ever.

[The Fonz]

I don't personally find InHim's refusal to claim when wagonned to -1 scummy. There are plenty of people who believe in never claiming day one. There are definitely scenarios that could cause a town player not to claim, though I'm not going to speculate what they are for obvious reasons.

That said, of course, claiming remains the one thing he could have done that might have shifted my vote off of him today.

It's unusual, and interesting, that this wagon has stalled at -1...

[Off the Mark]

I don't want us to make a rash decision, so

unvote:

[kilmenator]

I'm against an inHim claim. Basically, I'm

always

in favor of someone so closed to being lynched claiming; however, CES got there first (in the alternate form of Dodgy). That being said, I'm finding InHim's resistance to claiming a bit scummy ("It helps the town" is unneccesarily vague, and he attacked Gorckat rather than Gorckat's legitimate point).

So, yeah. IGMEOY: InHim, but to force a claim right now would be a mistake.

This doesnt sit well with me, how is it a mistake when he is at lynch -1? Wouldnt it make sense for him to claim, that way if anything, we can get a better opportunity at a lynch today, with someone else? If inhim does turn up scum, This quote from pie might take on an entirely different light, because pie seems to be on both sides, "usually should claim", "a bit scummy", "to force a claim right now would be a mistake".

Also to Pete- the reason my vote hasnt moved is because I find both CES and inhim scummy, being that inhim has a much larger bandwagon, I will stay there, until he claims or dies.

[Pie_is_good]

Given that inHim is at lynch-1 I am having a hard time understanding your post. You don't want him to claim because Dodgy already claimed? How is that relevant?

And you think his refusal to claim is scummy, (I agree) but you still don't want him to claim? You seem to just want him to get hammered without claiming - how is that helpful?

The entity of Dodgy/CES has not claimed - CES retracted Dodgy's claim.

I'm against a hammuhing of InHim until CES first completes his long-overdue claim, then inHim himself claims. While this happens, I'm happy to rack up more evidence against inHim just so that the time is not wasted, but in the mean time we need to see CES claim.

Claims shouldn't make or break your arguments, so I won't claim - if you think I should be lynched, then you think I should be lynched, right?

Wrong. Claims quite often DO make or break arguments - claims provide much more solid and testable facts than post analysis.

[Dasquian]

I am not moving my vote unless inHim claims, and even then, perhaps not. Fact is that inHim got to -1 votes without a claim, and if it seems possible that he might get lynched (it should), he should be claiming. The only circumstances under which he shouldn't claim are:

a) If he genuinely thinks he can diffuse the bandwagon without claiming, instead of tipping it over the edge.
b) If it's worse for the town for him to claim than it is for him to get lynched (and then, presumably, reveal his role as well as losing it). This is very unusual but I guess can happen, with the right setup.

Now, I think he's playing off of (a). The problem is, if anyone could pull this one off by citing the risks of outing town roles then actually everyone could and everyone would and guess what - everyone will refuse to claim Day 1. Magnifico! So there has to be something of a special reason for thinking you can do this - I wouldn't accept anything less than a compelling case that no one would or should put the last vote on. eg, if he can prove that only 6 people will ever vote him, he doesn't need to claim, and he's off the hook (pretty much where CES is). Or, if he can prove that some other issue needs addressing before the hammer vote will be dropped (eg, a compelling case to his innocence), then we should resolve that first.

- I do not think that of his non-voters, none of them will consider voting for him. Thus he should believe a hammer vote might be forthcoming and indeed encouraged before the bandwagon is diffused.
- I do not think there is enough public support to force a CES claim today (we've been through this already), so I think this is a dead-end.
- I don't see any other compelling issues/bandwagons that we should follow up.

As it stands I think inHim is our best lynch today, and I think his gambit smacks of desperation of someone who has no good answers to his bandwagon. Hopefully that's a

scum

with no good answers, but either way, this feels like a smokescreen that's not helpful. Ultimately, if he's town, his sole job now is to not get lynched. If that requires a claim, so be it. If he can do it another way, even better - but unless we all get bored and do something else in the face of uncooperative play (mmm, imagine

that

metagame), his current strategy just isn't going to work.

[The Fonz]

Those not voting are pete d, superstring, pie and CES. Superstring and pie are in the push-CES-to-claim camp, alongside Kilm and myself. Frankly, if all of us refused to vote anyone else until CES claims, we could actually force it, because then seven of the remaining eight would be needed for lynch. That said, that could cause a standoff.

[gorckat]

That makes me wonder why people looking for a particular person to claim aren't voting him...isn't that generally how you get people to claim, rather than just talking big about how that person needs to claim?

[The Fonz]

Because there's enough people in the 'CES should definitely not claim today' camp that we wouldn't have the votes to get him to L-1.

[gorckat]

Makes sense, but don't you still put your money where your mouth is? Maybe that's just me.

[pete d]

I'm not sure about the getting CES to claim, but his lack of posting definitely isn't helping. I would really like to see some input from him before day ends.

[Off the Mark]

That's what I'm waiting for too. I'm not casting any votes until we hear from CES. I'm particularly interested to see if he still finds me the scummiest.

[NanookTheWolf]

I'm back ...

I'm willing to vote either one of these players at this point in the game (CES and InHim that is.)

Both of them have been asked to claim by the census of the town, and both have refused. I get the whole not letting mafia know more then what they should bit, however .. when you're that close to a lynch Inhim it doesn't really matter anymore b/c you'll die and the town won't benefit from any possible 'town' information.

Unvote: CogitoErgoScum, and Vote: Inhimshallibe

(He's back at L-1)

This may have been the scummiest thing I've done in the eyes of some, but we're at page 18 and still can't make a choice as to who to kill. (Benefits with starting on day 1 I guess) ... I say we take the chance and lynch off one of them since neither seems to want to 'cooperate' with the town. Again, I'd still prefer CES at this point, but I'm also eager to continue on with this game.

[Thestatusquo]

Off the mark: 1 (ces)
Kilmentator: 2 (Pete d, inhim)

inhim: 6 (Daquian, IH, fonz, gorckat, kilm nanook)

CES: 2 (Pie, superstring)

[Pie_is_good]

I honestly can't say I'm happy to let CESDodgy off the hook just because he replaced, then lurked. Replacement should not change the status of scummitude of the player in question.

The inHim wagon came up afterwards, which means inHim should claim afterwards - but CES should be the one with limited information when he makes his claim. The InHim wagon seems to me like an attempt to detract attention from CES.

[NanookTheWolf]

You know, I keep hearing all of these people explain how against CES they are .. but when it comes time to vote him, no one wants to suddenly ... WTF!

Inhimshallibe should be back soon from wherever he went, and maybe if we're lucky, he'll actually claim .. IF not, I say hang the bastard.

[Off the Mark]

vote: CES

Apparently it's the only way to make him talk. And if his claim was true, he's a dead man anyway so this won't do too much harm even if it is a misguided vote.

[pete d]

unvote, vote: CES

pending contribution from CES.

The lurking has gone on too long. I don't see any reason for him not to be participating.

[NanookTheWolf]

Unvote: Inhimshalibe, Vote: CES

... for far over rated reasoning I've already gone through ... Maybe this time we'll actually get something going.