Micro 407: Jurassic Park Mafia - Game Over

[Scripten]

Can you both just answer each other? Because this is seriously annoying.

[Mathdino]

I kind of also want BBT and Grib to shut the fuck up. We get it. The other guy's scum. Let us sort out which of you is, or whether you're powerbussing

^This.

I'm still not convinced on the BBT vs Grib bickering, but I really would prefer to get information elsewhere first. The meta analysis of BBT is enough for me to hold off on him, but like I said I'd like Scripten to fulfill his promise before fully believing him on that. And on Grib, well, I don't know. I kind of doubt BBT would've barreled after him since the 2nd page based on a 'scumslip' if they were both scum.

In essence, my opinion of BBT is dependent on how much I trust Scripten, and my opinion of Grib is dependent on my opinion of BBT.

All of which will improve D2. Majiffy's slot I'm much more comfortable lynching; if he's town, which is rather unlikely IMO, at least we don't lynch a possibly valuable opinion.

[Grib]

You're right, this is fucking annoying.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Majiffy

I officially stop giving a shit about BBT until toMorrow, provided he doesn't shoot me toNight.

[Pine]

^dat scumpost

Like I said, Grib's in "anyone but me" mode. I don't feel inclined to oblige

[Grib]

Actually, I'm in "let's lynch BBT, but I guess Majiffy will do if everyone's too indecisive to go for BBT" mode.

Also, I just remembered: Pine/Finn are another nka (not knowingly aligned) pair.

[Grib]

I kind of also want BBT and Grib to shut the fuck up. We get it. The other guy's scum. Let us sort out which of you is, or whether you're powerbussing

You're right, this is fucking annoying.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Majiffy

I officially stop giving a shit about BBT until toMorrow, provided he doesn't shoot me toNight.

^dat scumpost

Like I said, Grib's in "anyone but me" mode. I don't feel inclined to oblige

No good deed goes unpunished.

[Mathdino]

Agree with Grib on this, your post is kind of unfair and tunnely, Pine. Would you prefer he advocate his own lynch? Nothing on this and last page are inconsistent with town-Grib.

[Grib]

Let's see.

Pine (rather dramatically) decided I "lost all towncred" after my unaligned players post instead of just asking me about it, stated that BBT was scummier than me but voted for me anyways because there wasn't any support for the BBT wagon, has continued to push for my lynch while saying absolutely nothing about

my

push on BBT besides whining about how annoying we are (even though the BBT wagon gained plenty of support), and attacked Finn with really shitty reasoning (the reason I believe they're nka).

Pine, explain to me why the above isn't scummy.

[Grib]

Oh, can't forget "asks BBT and I to stop bitching at each other, and calls me scum when I back off."

[insanity018]

It's also got to do with the fact that no one in the history of this game has been opposed to lynching Majiffy's slot, since it's kinda useless.

This is kinda why it is low information.

Holy shit.

Waiting for Grib to post, but I think I've figured this out.

...Please enlighten us?

Also sorry but I've just started

skipping

skimming BBT and Grib's back and forth.

I am at: While I completely understand BBT's initial reaction to Grib's herbivore mistake, I think Grib is right that BBT just sits on that as a 'scum slip' (which it isn't) and doesn't justify his continuing scum read. In fact, I'm still not sure what BBT's actual case is.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Actually, I'm in "let's lynch BBT, but I guess Majiffy will do if everyone's too indecisive to go for BBT"

In all seriousness, I have blown your case to pieces. You conceded what was your biggest point in your case, and I hope everyone read that because I don't understand some of the comments people are making.

I just have a simple question.

How does me pushing your scum-slip directly lead you to believe I am scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Actually, thinking about that point you conceded, some people jumped on that pretty quickly and voted me. I need to check a few things.

Grib, your case was 'I was hypocritical' which you have conceded and then a bunch of stuff that is in no way alignment indicative. I mean, I'm asking you to explain just your first point, nothing else, just how your first point links to me being scum. And you can't answer because it doesn't. It does not lend itself to me being scum.

[insanity018]

Hey BBT, please summarise in 3 dot points or less why you think Grib is scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

grib actually making very good points here, especially with regards to bbt, especially the last part about bbt and grib both wanting to lynch me for being antitown but somehow when grib does it it's scummy but it's not for bbt...

Wow, okay, the hypocrisy Grib's pointing out is good enough for me. I was under the impression your suspicions were a result of tunneling and aggressiveness, but it looks like there's scum motivation behind BBT's votes.

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

Yeah, it was a good series of posts

vote: BBT

Considering Pine's been tunneling BBT all game, it's pretty likely he'll declare intent to hammer. As such I'm comfortable asking

BBT, care to claim?

Pretty satisfied with ending today, I think all I'd like is more from Majiffy.

This is a very interesting sequence of posts.

Beck, why did you not vote for me in 586? Why did you wait until Math had voted me in 592 and then you vote me straight after in 593.

You both happily accepted a point that Grib himself has now conceded was in fact false.

I have too many scum-reads and I need to sort myself out. I might be wrong about Beck being town, and I think Math could be scum.

Math is rolefishing asking for the claim before anyone even stated intent to hammer me. I had no reason to claim just because I was L-1.

PEdit - Funnily enough Insanity, I'm beginning to think I've been wrong about Grib this whole time. He might just be bad town that is tunneling.

[Mathdino]

Wait what? I'm not sure I understand you. Sequence of events:
1. Grib makes a good case on you.
2. Beck agrees with it.
3. I agree with it, vote you.
4. Beck is validated and (finally) understands that you're a more likely lynch than Scripten, votes you.
5. I was under the erroneous impression that you were at L-1, and since Pine was almost certain to hammer you since he's been scumreading you all game, I figured it'd be good for you to claim since you probably were gonna get lynched if Pine was online. I appreciate how you didn't point out that I later realised I was wrong about the VC.
6. I backed off the wagon because Scripten showed why it might be a bad one.
7. You and Grib have your slapfight and blow holes in each other's cases.
8. You find me scummy because Grib's case was near-neutralised AFTER I voted and then unvoted him?

I 'happily accepted' a point because it was a good one. That changed based on the information I was given. I have no idea what you're scumreading.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

#1 is wrong. It wasn't a good case, I have shown that. Grib has shown that by conceding the very point that both you and Beck latched onto as reasons for voting me.

If Beck agrees with it, why did he wait for you to vote before he voted me?

You still wait for intent to hammer, unless you're role-fishing. Had Pine come in and said 'Intent to hammer', I would have had no problem with your post.

[Mathdino]

Dude, he conceded those points AFTER all that happened. It was a good case at the time, and a much worse case now. You think I should've been able to instantly see the problems with it and then defend you? That's your job, not mine, sorry.

I don't know, not speaking for Beck. However, that's a pretty common thing to do as town due to emotions. It's called validation. And last I checked, Beck's a pretty emotional player.

Pine had been tunneling you

all game

. If you were actually at L-1, you're crazy if you don't think Pine would've been fine with hammering. However, I don't know Pine, or whether he's the type that hammers without a claim. So I predicted what his move would be (apparently correctly, since he'd been scumreading you until you and Grib bickered for a page), and suggested that a claim might be a good move just in case.

[insanity018]

On Beck, I know that town will do that also. (I mislynched town for virtually the same thing in my previous game)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I know he did.

What I'm saying is this. If you're going to vote me based on somebody else's reasoning, you better check that their reasoning is valid before you do so. You hopped onto a reason that I shouldn't have even had to explain because I haven't said anything new that wasn't already in my ISO when Grib made those points.

I'm not asking you to defend me at all. I'm saying you should have checked the validity of somebody else's cases before voting me based off of that reasoning.

I don't think players hammer without stating intent. If Pine 'derp-hammered' I would have expected him to come under extreme pressure D2.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You see, had I been lynched, it would have been very easy for you to hide behind Grib's case and reasoning for why you was on my wagon. You know what, actually;

VOTE: Mathdino

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Here's where I'm at right now;

Town

Scripten
Insanity
Majiffy
Grib
Finn
Pine
Beck
Math

Scum

My pride doesn't allow me to call Grib town yet, but I'm beginning to think I've been wrong all game.

I need to look at Pine again. IIRC, I basically called him scum off of association tells, which is kind of bad.

One of Beck/Math is scum, probably not both because of the way they voted me.

[Mathdino]

Okay, hang on, I'm getting confused. Just tried to ISO Grib and BBT, and I don't think I'm doing that again. I voted you for 585, the 'raging hypocrite' case. Not for 583, which is what you started slapfighting about (If I'm reading correctly; I really don't have the energy to try to analyse your bickering with Grib, stop walling each other and it'll be easier to think about). Grib's concession doesn't nullify his point, which you seem to think it does.

What nullifies his point in MY eyes is what Scripten said, about how you always pull this as town. I did in fact check the posts Grib quoted. I did not in fact check your meta.

You don't think players do that? Seriously? Okay, click on my name. Then view my topics. ISO the mods of said topics, and jump to the posts that ended D1.
Tell me if you still think players don't do that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The hypocrite case is the one that Grib conceded.

I know players do derp-hammer. If he did, he would have come under pressure D2. However, I'm not going to insta-claim anytime I'm put to L-1 in case of derp-hammers, that just makes it too easy for scum to role-fish.

[Mathdino]

It happened 3 times, man. 3 of my last 4 day ones have ended that way.

If you're town, it sounds to me that you're scumreading people for being wrong in your eyes. That's a dangerous thing to do. Had Scripten not chimed in, I'd absolutely have still been voting you, as I still think Grib's case is pretty valid.

Don't put your defence on a pedestal just because people aren't voting you anymore. It wasn't

that

good. Just because I don't see everything from your point of view doesn't make me scum.

Edit: He conceded that you called Beck anti-town once. That does not mean he conceded the entire case; the point and the hypocrisy he highlighted is still valid. Again, you seem to have a warped impression of how the you vs Grib argument ended. You see the word 'concede' and assume it means you're right.
That said, I am not going to take up Grib's position as the person to bicker with you over those points. I just ask you to understand my train of thought here, even if it may be incorrect.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It was a good case at the time, and a much worse case now

. You think I should've been able to instantly see the problems with it and then defend you?

Had Scripten not chimed in, I'd absolutely have still been voting you,

as I still think Grib's case is pretty valid

.

What?

Just because I don't see everything from your point of view doesn't make me scum.

Correct. What makes you scum is latching onto somebody else's poor reasoning for joining my wagon. It would have been very easy for you to point the blame at Grib come D2.

Edit: He conceded that you called Beck anti-town once. That does not mean he conceded the entire case; the point and the hypocrisy he highlighted is still valid.

No, it isn't. He has completely conceded that entire hypocrisy case;

It's you who is being dense. I said Beck was scum, multiple times, you said he was anti-town. I did not say he was anti-town.

The only time I even remotely referred to Beck as town during that time is when I said 'Beck is anti-town at the very, very best and scummy at worst'. That means, if I gave Beck extreme leeway, (hence the very, very best section of that statement) I could see him being town in the absolute best of light. Otherwise, he was scum.

I will concede here – that was the only time you called him antitown.

No, it doesn't. A lot of my case is being handwaved as "BBT plays that way as either alignment."

It's the one I ended with "tl;dr BBT is scum. Let's lynch him." CtrlF my ISO.

The 'one' he is referring to as still being his case is 583, not 585 which is the one you agreed with as reasoning for voting me (592)