Open 21 - Friends and Enemies (Game Over), before 453

[Albert B. Rampage]

I understand, yeah I think I do, here's a question:

Who do you think we should lynch today between Lawrencelot and Aimee ?

[Adel]

Which one can you see being scum without the other one being scum? That is your answer. It stands a better chance of being correct by covering more bases.

[Albert B. Rampage]

The possible scenarios I see, in ascending order from the most popular at the top are:

Aimee/Lawrencelot
Adel/Lawrencelot
Adel/Aimee
Bird/Lawrencelot
Bird/Adel

[Albert B. Rampage]

EBWOP

Popular maybe, but I meant probable =)

[Albert B. Rampage]

Also, I am a consistent person, and I make it policy to always go after the hardest person to lynch, which is in this case Aimee. Both Law and you seem like easy choices for a lynch, and I trust Lowell will swiftly terminate both your lives if Aimee is town.

[Sir Tornado]

The possible scenarios I see, in ascending order from the most popular at the top are:

Aimee/Lawrencelot
Adel/Lawrencelot
Adel/Aimee
Bird/Lawrencelot
Bird/Adel

How does the Bird get into that list? Haven't seen anything scummy from him so far.

[Aimee]

WHAT. THE. HELL. Post coming later. Absolutely gob-smacked.

[Lawrencelot]

Lowell, please stop pretending me and Adel are scum for sure. I voted Adel now, and I will keep my vote on her to prove I'm not scum with her. Now that Aimee is the target, and people think Aimee is scum with me, I think I might vote for her to prove that I'm not scum with her. And the difference with distancing myself from someone is: I will keep the vote, and only remove it if town wants it.

So, this is my question for the town: if you believe I am not scum with Adel, can I put my vote on Aimee now? Or will you think I am scum with Adel when I do that? In other words, I don't mind that Adel is lynched, and I don't mind that Aimee is lynched. You tell me who to vote. Here are my possible scenarios:

Aimee/Adel
Adel/Bird
Aimee/Bird
Aimee/Lowell
Lowell/Bird

I think Lowell is scummy because he still wants to lynch me because he thinks me and Adel are both scum. If you think that, I will keep my vote on Adel if you like. Bird can be scum because we know nothing about him, it's just less likely he's scum than that the others are scum.

So, for the last time: don't vote me if you think both me and Adel are scum, because I will keep my vote on Adel if I have to. Don't vote me if you think both me and Aimee are scum (which I wouldn't find very likely if I was in your position), because I will vote Aimee and keep my vote on her if you want.

[Sir Tornado]

Lowell, please stop pretending me and Adel are scum for sure. I voted Adel now, and I will keep my vote on her to prove I'm not scum with her. Now that Aimee is the target, and people think Aimee is scum with me, I think I might vote for her to prove that I'm not scum with her. And the difference with distancing myself from someone is: I will keep the vote, and only remove it if town wants it.

So, this is my question for the town: if you believe I am not scum with Adel, can I put my vote on Aimee now? Or will you think I am scum with Adel when I do that? In other words, I don't mind that Adel is lynched, and I don't mind that Aimee is lynched. You tell me who to vote. Here are my possible scenarios:

Aimee/Adel
Adel/Bird
Aimee/Bird
Aimee/Lowell
Lowell/Bird

I think Lowell is scummy because he still wants to lynch me because he thinks me and Adel are both scum. If you think that, I will keep my vote on Adel if you like. Bird can be scum because we know nothing about him, it's just less likely he's scum than that the others are scum.

So, for the last time: don't vote me if you think both me and Adel are scum, because I will keep my vote on Adel if I have to. Don't vote me if you think both me and Aimee are scum (which I wouldn't find very likely if I was in your position), because I will vote Aimee and keep my vote on her if you want.

I am a bit disturbed by this. It seems that you would vote for whom the rest of the town feel is scum (in other words, join the bandwagon) rather than make up your own mind.

[Aimee]

Firstly to quote Lowell:

I read through the posts. Here's the verdict.

YOU'RE ALL INSANE IF YOU DON'T SEE THAT ADEL AND LAWRENCE ARE THE LAST TWO SCUM!!!

Adel. She's the most obvious. First, her quest to find "the real masons" (post 324), an OJ-esque faux quest for justice, is laughable. Adel, are we supposed to believe that not one, but TWO, scum falsely claimed mason, and yet NO masons counterclaimed???? That makes no sense. I'd trade all THREE masons for a chance to expose two scum. That you pretend to think timid masons might be hiding is laughable. Posts 267, 258, 273 are all awfully bad and suspicious as well. Hell, everything is at this point.

As I was reading the thread that I missed (6 pages in 24 hours???) there was a time when some folks had the trio of ryan, adel, and myself. What was odd about that was that Adel (in particular) seemed to relish the pairing, making no effort to distance from me. She's been buddying up like hell, and it's obvious.

ryan. $10 says I know why he got modkilled. He's almost as obvious. His odd refusal to believe an UNCOUNTERCLAIMED mason pair is bewildering. Almost too dumb to be scum. Ripley nailed it with his post 277. The "suspicion" is fabricated.

Lawrence. The most bewildering of the scum players. By the time papaya and albert claimed, ryan and adel were in a tough spot, whereas Lawrence was not. That Lawrence came out of nowhere to openly support them... even calling them MASONS though both deny, blows my mind for its dumbness. The only thing I can think of is that he/they really thought they might be able to get the votes to sway the balance. As in, be able to convince 3/5 non-mason players. I think Lawrence might have seen Adel's buddying up to me as indication that I might take her side. That's just a huge misread as far as I'm concerned.

This is pretty to-the-point, explaining and mirroring my views on the Lawrence and Adel very well. They are pretty much confirmed scum in my eyes. To approach different targets for lynches today seems pretty ludicrous.

Adel and Lawrence are obviously better targets than me. Their day 2 behaviour is almost worse than their day 1 behaviour. It's like blind following of Albert, to make them seem more "town-like". They have admitted they are just going to vote like him, whatever they did. Oh, and they also immediately distanced themselves, not only from each other, but from Ryan. And Theo's death points to Adel. She heavily considered him to be the third mason, who had yet been undiscovered. They also vote each other to distance. And now, they have just jumped on the bandwagon against me, seemingly without reason. Their reason is that they are just following Albert.


I'll put my comments in blue.

She first makes a post consisting only of Adel, which makes me think she wants Adel lynched.

That is correct. Today, my main target is Adel. If this cannot be achieved, then Lawrencelot is my second target.

Then there's this:

Note that Lawrence is now at L-2.

I'm not exactly sure what this proves. In a post beforehand, you had made it clear that you didn't want Lawrence above L-2. I was making this clear so no-one else votes for her.

This, when I tell her to put her vote on Law:

Well, I guess I can put my vote on,

for now

.

Vote: Lawrencelot

Although I will remove it, if necessary

.

I really don't see what there is to say here. I was perfectly happy with an Adel or Lawrence vote. I meant that if, for example, you had changed your mind, Albert, and picked Adel for the lynch, I would happily move forward. Although note that I am not blindly following you. This is shown by my later concerns about choosing Ripley for a lynch.

Removes her vote at the first opportunity:

Sir Tornado, I will remove my vote, if you want.

unvote

And then finally puts it back when I say that Lawrencelot isn't the vote of the day:

Soon, I will. For now, I will apply pressure.

Vote: Lawrencelot

Notice how she criticizes me after putting her vote, knowing full well that most of the town is behind me, and if I say we shouldn't vote Lawrencelot, the town will probably not vote Lawrencelot.

Firstly, I didn't criticise you. I asked you why on earth Lawrence and Adel were being let off the hook. Oh, and I have already said I am not simply going to blindly follow you, or anyone. If I vote for someone, it is because I genuinely believe they are scum. Thus today, my vote will not be going to anyone other than Lawrence or Adel.

This is too easy,

Vote Aimee

I really don't see why I am being voted for. I voted for Lawrence, then Tornado expressed discomfort, then after realising that was too cautious, I put my vote back on to -2. That is a fundamentally weak case, which should not even be considered as lynch-worthy.

I was never planning on deviating too far from you, Albert. But recently, this is just too much. Considering me a lynch target for almost nothing, outing Ripley for no reason and blatantly ignoring the obvious scum tells from Adel and Lawrence have really shaken my confidence in you. Although, I know you are a pro-town mason. Of course. And I would never dream of voting for you in this game.

However, Adel and Lawrence are both scummy as hell.

Vote: Adel

, although really there isn't much difference. Either should be lynched, and my vote won't stray on anyone except these two today.

Albert, please reaffirm the reasons why Adel and Lawrence are not the lynch targets today. So far the only reasons I have seen are completely and utterly WIFOM.

[Aimee]

Lowell, please stop pretending me and Adel are scum for sure. I voted Adel now, and I will keep my vote on her to prove I'm not scum with her. Now that Aimee is the target, and people think Aimee is scum with me, I think I might vote for her to prove that I'm not scum with her. And the difference with distancing myself from someone is: I will keep the vote, and only remove it if town wants it.

So, this is my question for the town: if you believe I am not scum with Adel, can I put my vote on Aimee now? Or will you think I am scum with Adel when I do that? In other words, I don't mind that Adel is lynched, and I don't mind that Aimee is lynched. You tell me who to vote. Here are my possible scenarios:

Aimee/Adel
Adel/Bird
Aimee/Bird
Aimee/Lowell
Lowell/Bird

I think Lowell is scummy because he still wants to lynch me because he thinks me and Adel are both scum. If you think that, I will keep my vote on Adel if you like. Bird can be scum because we know nothing about him, it's just less likely he's scum than that the others are scum.

So, for the last time: don't vote me if you think both me and Adel are scum, because I will keep my vote on Adel if I have to. Don't vote me if you think both me and Aimee are scum (which I wouldn't find very likely if I was in your position), because I will vote Aimee and keep my vote on her if you want.

As expected, just blind following, yet again. Do you actually know the reasons why I am being considered, and who do you consider scummy? You have just said "I am happy with voting Aimee" yet given no reasons why.

Adel is the same. No reasons are given at all. This is just shameless bandwagon and emphasises, yet again, why they are most definitely the main targets today.

[Aimee]

Lowell, please stop pretending me and Adel are scum for sure. I voted Adel now, and I will keep my vote on her to prove I'm not scum with her. Now that Aimee is the target, and people think Aimee is scum with me, I think I might vote for her to prove that I'm not scum with her. And the difference with distancing myself from someone is: I will keep the vote, and only remove it if town wants it.

Scummy as hell. So you are only going to put your vote on me to clear yourself?

That just shows the difference between myself and Lawrencelot. I have given reasons why I would vote for Adel and Lawrence, because I believe they are scummy. Lawrence, however, would vote for me or Adel because it might prove he isn't scum, although it doesn't actually prove that, just shows that you mindlessly bandwagon to save yourself.

Sir Tornado, do you believe I am the lynching target today? Or do you believe it is Lawrence/Adel?

[Sir Tornado]

Aimee.

I am not sure if ABR actually meant you as scum. He seems to be vote hopping a lot today, and then claiming that he was just guaging reactions. I feel that this may be the same.

I suspect that this could also have been a ploy to get you out of your procrastination and finally post your analysis (which, I might add, you still haven't)

[Aimee]

Well, here is my much awaited analysis, of all the players.

Adel

and

Lawrencelot

I see firmly as scum, as I have previously explained.

A Papaya

is obviously a confirmed Mason. His play is also consistent, despite his lurking. Obviously pro-town.

Albert

is very pro-town, after a re-read. His play is... unorthodox, shall I say, for example, threatening to reveal the last Mason on day 1 was incredibly rash. Whilst it is risky... I am not going to deny that it has worked so far. Again, obviously pro-town.

Bird1111

has basically posted nothing. Waiting for a substantial post by him.

Lowell

is also clearly pro-town. Whilst Adel previously tried to form links with him on day 1, it is important to note that he didn't join them. He was independent from them all the time. Obviously pro-town.

Ripley

is, as usual, incredibly pro-town. No doubts whatsoever.

Sir Tornado

is still obviously pro-town, but slightly too cautious for my liking. It is okay to be daring when there is such obviously grounded suspicions today. Pro-town.


As you can see no one is in any doubt in my eyes other than Lawrence and Adel. It is therefore obvious that they should be the next two targets, unless anything untoward occurs.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yep, Lawrencelot, put your vote on Aimee. I highly suggest everyone do the same.

[Lowell]

Okay, I don't like this. Some thoughts.

1) Ripley is the other mason. Fine. Really, at this point it doesnt' matter. They'll kill one of you tonight, but we have 3 days to finish this off, which will be easy enough.

2) I guess I'm starting to see the Aimee possible scum thing. Particularly post 638 worries me, in the way that she seems to be trying to emphasize how much she and I are soul-mates in this game. You know, just like Adel and ryan did. Sucking up to Lowell is the new black.

3) Even so, I still can't see lynching Aimee despite what is right in front of us. I won't vote for Aimee yet.

4)

IF

Alberts take on Aimee is correct, I will (a) fear him in every other game I play from this day forward, and (b) tend to agree with him that Lawrence is more likely to be scum than Adel. The way Lawrence adopted Adel's strategy of adopting

Albert's

strategy seemed at first like poorly-done distancing, but now sort of looks like "bunkering", in a way. Basically, an exposed scum takes a townie down in the trenches with him, hoping the townie gets killed and he's cleared.

So I will

unvote, vote Lawrence

. Either way you cut it, it seems Lawrence is the most likely at this point.

[Lowell]

Also, I am a consistent person, and I make it policy to always go after the hardest person to lynch, which is in this case Aimee. Both Law and you seem like easy choices for a lynch, and I trust Lowell will swiftly terminate both your lives if Aimee is town.

I still think you're trying too hard here. Frankly, it's a little insulting to suggest that everyone will forget about Aimee if you're not here to remind us.

I assure you I've taken the Aimee accusation to heart and will help kill her tomorrow or the next day if it comes to it. Also, there's a decent chance scum kill Rip instead of you (no offense, papaya ) so you'll be around to argue tomorrow. But even by your OWN admission, Lawrence is more likely than Aimee. I just say we start there.



We can almost do it backwards at this point. If you're right about Tornado (and I think you are) that gives me FIVE confirmed innocents, and the remaining players (Law, Aimee, Adel, Bird) can really be lynched in any order and we'll still win. Hence, go for the highest percentage first, not the "hardest to lynch". They're ALL easy to lynch at this point.

[Lawrencelot]

Unvote, Vote: Aimee

I also would like to ask everybody who suspects me this: if I was lynched and turned out to be scum, who would you think is my partner? And more important: if I was lynched and turned out to be town, who would you suspect?

Aimee, it would be a little late for me to just vote whoever I find suspicious. I did that on D1, and I was wrong. My vote on Adel does proof something if I would keep it on her all the time. I could also not vote at all, and hammer the one I am suspected of being the scumpartner of. That would be a better defense for me. I don't think people see me and you as scumpartner, so my vote on you now is because the masons want it, and I don't think you are that pro-town. So, if the masons say I have to put my vote on someone, I would do that as long as it's not me. Because I don't see how the masons would ask me to vote ABR, A Papaya or Ripley, and as long as they all agree there is a good chance that they're right. I will allow the one I vote to defend himself though, so I might unvote if someone had the possibility to hammer without the one I vote defending himself.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm not exactly sure what this proves. In a post beforehand, you had made it clear that you

didn't want Lawrence above L-2

. I was making this clear so no-one else votes for her.

This is incorrect. I said I wanted at

least

2 votes on Lawrencelot.

Aimee.

I am not sure if ABR actually meant you as scum. He seems to be vote hopping a lot today, and then claiming that he was just guaging reactions. I feel that this may be the same.

I only went from Lawrencelot to Aimee, I don't consider that "a lot". I am dead serious about lynching Aimee today. Lowell, you say that it won't make a difference which way we go, so I'll ask you to put your vote on Aimee too. All roads lead to rome, my friend. 8)

[Lawrencelot]

Ok, since I'm not sure if I can post tomorrow, I will say this if this is my last post:
if I'm the lynch today, ask everybody who voted me who they think is scum with me if I'm scum and who they suspect if I am a townie, which I am. Use that information to lynch the real scum. If someone who votes me does not give this information, pressure him.

[Aimee]

Albert, please state the entire case against me. After that, consider that case and then consider the cases against Adel (half of which I have already done) and Lawrencelot, and then come to a conclusion. After that I will be perfectly happy to defend myself.

[Aimee]

I'm not exactly sure what this proves. In a post beforehand, you had made it clear that you

didn't want Lawrence above L-2

. I was making this clear so no-one else votes for her.

This is incorrect. I said I wanted at

least

2 votes on Lawrencelot.

Wrong. To quote you on post 527:

I encourage everyone to place Lawrencelot at

at least

-2 to punctuate the urgency of the situation. A Papaya, do us the honor of exposing our case on this suspect - in other words, cut the cake

[Ripley]

Lowell's recent arguments favoring a lynch of Lawrencelot seem sensible to me. I personally think we would be making a mistake to lynch anybody before bird either returns or is replaced, and I would like to get input from Papaya's replacement too, but I'm afraid that in this game any pleas for patience and caution will be trampled over, so:

Vote: Lawrencelot

[Albert B. Rampage]

Albert, please state the entire case against me. After that, consider that case and then consider the cases against Adel (half of which I have already done) and Lawrencelot, and then come to a conclusion. After that I will be perfectly happy to defend myself.

Let me answer your question with another question: if you were looking at this from an objective PoV, and didn't know your alignment, what group of four people most likely contains two scum ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm not exactly sure what this proves. In a post beforehand, you had made it clear that you

didn't want Lawrence above L-2

. I was making this clear so no-one else votes for her.

This is incorrect.

I said I wanted at

least

2 votes on Lawrencelot.

Wrong. To quote you on post 527:

I encourage everyone to place Lawrencelot at

at least

-2

to punctuate the urgency of the situation. A Papaya, do us the honor of exposing our case on this suspect - in other words, cut the cake

?