Open 20 - Pie E7 (Game over) - before 453

[CrashTextDummie]

Vote Count

:

JordanA24

(2):

Simenon, Patrick

Simenon

(2):

Paradoxombie, Jordan24

Patrick

(1):

Teffc

Not voting

(2):

Ripley, Aimee

7 alive, 4 to lynch. Deadline hits next Sunday.

[Paradoxombie]

And Paradoxombie is just baffling me. What have Patrick or Ripley done to deserve any real suspicion at this stage. I agree with Patrick here - you voted against Simenon without any real reasoning.

So you don't find Simenon suspicious?

[Ripley]

Somthing doesn't make sense about Simenon and you just want to drop it? What possible reason could you have to want that? You think it's distracting?

How about you convince Simenon to just come clean and explain himself?

Wouldn't that be a more

protown

resolution than me just stopping, regardless of the significance of the issue?

Paradoxombie, I can't speak for Patrick but I am entirely confident of my own total inability to convince Simenon to do anything he doesn't want to. If he does actually want to tell us, and this is all a coquettish act waiting for someone to find the right words of persuasion, well, that someone is not going to be me.

For me, the question long ago ceased to be "what is Simenon on about" - really, it is not a wise idea to ponder the working of Simenon's mind too deeply - but more "is it being blown out of proportion?" " and "why is Paradoxombie continuing to focus exclusively on this issue, and so contrastingly reluctant to be drawn on the whole Jordan affair?"

Look. OK. Let's throw caution to the winds, and take a peek at the possible scenarios that could be playing out in Simenon's inscrutable head. There are any number of reasons why Simenon might be withholding this early tell on Jordan that don't mean he's scum. Here are a handful:

1. He's enjoying being awkward for the sake of it.
2. There never actually was a tell, but he doesn't want to admit that.
3. He can't remember what it was, and he doesn't want to admit that.
4. He's just being a tool for his own entertainment.
5. It's a super-secret tell that he doesn't want to divulge because wider knowledge of it would render it useless.
6. He's enjoying watching you fixate on something entirely meaningless or nonexistent.
7. He thinks you may be scum and that he's getting useful information from your behavior.
8. He thinks you may be a misguided but fixated townie but that he's getting useful information from other's reactions to your behavior.
9. He doesn't know what you are but he likes to see a newbie banging their head against a brick wall.
10. He's a cantankerous so-and-so who just likes to be stubborn.

Or any combination of the above.

And now for something completely different.

Lynch -1 after only 4 pages. Are you aiming for a quick lynch or something? I have my doubts on puting my vote on jordan although he seems tangled.

That's actually a fair enough point. I hadn't taken into account that Jordan was at L-2. I sometimes forget that a game only has 7 players if it's in Little Italy.

You are saying you have taken my posts out of context. And that helps you how? Most things lose or change their meaning. thus, you are misreading my posts.

Sorry, I don't understand this. I don't believe I said I've taken your posts out of context. Where did you think I said that?

[Simenon]

It's none of those, although it comes closest to five.

[Simenon]

It's actually:
11. He thought it was a tell at first, but then, as the game went on, realized it no longer applied and dropped it, but kept his vote because of new developments.

[Paradoxombie]

Well Ripley, I don't think I'm taking any of this too far, I challenge anyone to argue that what Simenon is doing is anything but anti-town. And yet you all seem to be happy just letting him play that way.

Well screw that.

I see someone playing anti-town, I vote them. Perfectly reasonable.
And yet you all jump on me like I have no right to do that; wtf?

If none of you want to vote Simenon for playing anti-town, well then be my guest, but please don't tell me that none of my actions are justified, at least not without some decent objective logic.

So until Simenon either admits his original tell, admits he's being an asshole on purpose, or a better lead comes up, my vote on him stands.

[Paradoxombie]

ah, sorry, wrote my post before reading your last one, obviously, Simenon

unvote

[Simenon]

Okay, fine:

The two posts that made me vote Jordan were the two firsts posts written by Jordan and Ripley. Jordan roles a dice, and votes Ripley, and says "Sorry". I thought, what the hell does he need to say sorry for? So I jumped on that, as did Patrick. And then Ripley says "well gosh, I want to join dis wagon, but I jwust can't". And that's what got me thinking.

I'm no longer thinking this, as I don't think jordan-ripley makes that much sense anymore, but I still want to run jordan up for other reasons.

[Paradoxombie]

cool.

[JordanA24]

Okay, fine:

The two posts that made me vote Jordan were the two firsts posts written by Jordan and Ripley. Jordan roles a dice, and votes Ripley, and says "Sorry". I thought, what the hell does he need to say sorry for? So I jumped on that, as did Patrick. And then Ripley says "well gosh, I want to join dis wagon, but I jwust can't". And that's what got me thinking.

I'm no longer thinking this, as I don't think jordan-ripley makes that much sense anymore, but I still want to run jordan up for other reasons.

Ah, that sorry was becasue we know eachother from another game, and I think he's a good player.

[Paradoxombie]

Well I honestly do find Ripley's lack of voting suspicious, I mean we're not gonna get anywhere without voting.

And I don't like how it always puts him in position to hammer when someone puts a lynch -1 without having to explain a change of mind.

Aimee is equally guilty but at least she just hasn't been around;
Teffc is probably somwhere inbetween the Aimee and Ripley, in terms of posting/voting ratio

[Simenon]

Ah, that sorry was becasue we know eachother from another game, and I think he's a good player.

I felt you would make a response along those lines.
That's part of why I strayed away from just blurting it out. It's so easy to respond to, it really doesn't make much of an effect.

[Ripley]

Ah, that sorry was becasue we know eachother from another game, and I think he's a good player.

I felt you would make a response along those lines.
That's part of why I strayed away from just blurting it out. It's so easy to respond to, it really doesn't make much of an effect.

I'll confirm that when this game started another game had just finished in which Jordan and I were on opposing sides, and which resulted in a crushing victory for ... um... oh well, let's skip that irrelevant detail - and this was why I greeted Jordan as I did.

Paradoxombie. I assure you keeping myself in a position to hammer is the very last thing on my mind. I am not one of nature's hammerers. I strongly dispute your assertion that a high posting/voting ratio makes a person scummy, and that therefore Aimee, who hasn't posted

or

voted, is a relative innocent by comparison.

[Paradoxombie]

well I'm hesitant to go after Aimee since she was away, but if she was straight out lurking I would find that more suspicious than you.

[Aimee]

My main suspicion at the moment is towards Paradoxombie, for his somewhat "eager" attitude to go after Simenon, and seemingly ignore the Jordan issue entirely.

Meanwhile, he has left a FoS against Patrick and Ripley (both of whom I am seeing as pro-town at the moment), yet not explained this at all. I would like an explanation please.

Also, Jordan and Teffc, what do you think of Paradoxombie's behaviour so far?

[Paradoxombie]

You still haven't answered

my

question, so let me rephrase it:

Do you think Simenon was playing in a pro-town way by hiding information on his own play? But, hold on, let me answer with a quote of yours.

Simenon, I am at a loss to see why hiding information is at all beneficial to the town (with the exception of some cases, e.g. cops and their resultsetc.)

So you think it's supicious that I'm voting a player you admit is playing anti-town? That goes for Patrick and Ripley as well.

Additionally you think I should be giving more input on the Jordan situation?:

I can't say, He's given off a few scumtells, but it seems that most of the pressure on him has decreased and I haven't reached any conclusions yet.

Jordan, there hasn't been a night-phase yet. Ergo, Simenon cannot have any results, even if he was a cop.

Jordan, are you saying your mistake is that you forgot that this game started in day?

So here's one more from me: I think you guys are making a bigger deal of Jordan than you have to, dwelling on one issue isn't doing anything but slowing down the game. No one has anything new to add about the situation. Maybe Jordan is scum, maybe not. Sitting on this one thing is about as bad as not posting.

There now we both have 2 quotes on the Jordan "situation."
I honestly think mine are somewhat more helpful since
1. they give analysis
and likewise
2. Give people something so they can decide if I'm scum or not

but that's just me

[Ripley]

People, We have a deadline on Sunday. We need to get moving.

Still thinking things through, but at present I'm leaning towards Jordan as the best lynch. 2 experienced players - they could both be scum, obviously, but the odds are against it - think he made a slipup, which is better evidence than we have on anyone else. We would learn a reasonable amount of information from his lynch. And if his cop remarks to Simenon are taken at face value, he can't be the cop, which halves our chances of outing a power role. Also, Simenon's comment "If Jordan was town, I think there would be much more enthusiasm for his lynch by now." has some value. Unless Simenon and Patrick are the scum, there would have been at least one scum out there who passed on the chance of making a move on an innocent caught in a slip. For all these reasons, I think Jordan would make a practical deadline lynch. I'm not wildly confident, but we have to lynch

somebody

.

I think Teffc's policy of "trying to see stuff from more than one point of view" could be an effective cover for avoiding taking a position on anything. In post 82 she finds Jordan suspicious, and in Post 97 she says: "And Jordan! the more you say the more tangled in your affirmations you get." but she continues to vote Patrick for "insisting on voting Jordan and trying to prove he's right". See post 140 for more details of my thoughts about Teffc.

And Aimee, even taking into account her holiday, hasn't posted anything like enough content. I said in post 113:

I am mildly suspicious of Aimee for steering so clear of the whole Jordan business, which blew up well before her departure.

... and she continued to avoid it completely upon her return, focusing solely on Paradoxombie. Aimee would probably be my second choice right now.

So - I have an open mind, and would look closely at a case against anybody, but am closest to voting Jordan.

[JordanA24]

Also, Simenon's comment "If Jordan was town, I think there would be much more enthusiasm for his lynch by now." has some value. Unless Simenon and Patrick are the scum, there would have been at least one scum out there who passed on the chance of making a move on an innocent caught in a slip.

I'm almost certain one of Sim or Patrick is scum, if I had to guess, I'd guess Sim. For their partner, I think another experienced player, one who has decided to not vote for me for precisly the reason stated above, in fact, I think that's another point against Sim, trying to communicate in thread maybe? I know I'm not a scum, so, I'm going to

Vote: Sim

.

[Patrick]

Ripley summed up some of my positions quite well there actually. I would like Teffc to give some decent reasons for voting me, that are not based on joking around on page 1 or 2. And yes, Aimee is lurking more than usual here, and hasn't really commented in depth on anything. I might contemplate switching to her actually, but I'll think on it a bit more. If we could get a deadline extension, I wouldn't mind some Aimee pressure.

So you think it's supicious that I'm voting a player you admit is playing anti-town? That goes for Patrick and Ripley as well.

I don't remember saying at any point that I though Simenon was behaving in an anti town way. Annoying perhaps, but not necessarily anti town. And holding back on stuff can be useful sometimes.

Mod

can we get a deadline extension? We haven't been going that long and activity isn't that bad.

[Paradoxombie]

I don't remember saying at any point that I though Simenon was behaving in an anti town way. Annoying perhaps, but not necessarily anti town. And holding back on stuff can be useful sometimes.

If being annoying is hindering the game, that = antitown, imo

What disturbs me is that you've voted Simenon without really explaining why you think he's scum.

I agree with Patrick here - you voted against Simenon without any real reasoning.

How ironic, I vote someone for claiming they have reasoning but refusing to reveal it, and you jump at me for not having reasoning.

Double standards = bad

[Patrick]

If being annoying is hindering the game, that = antitown, imo

Only if it gets to a ridiculous level of being annoying. I don't believe it was so annoying as to be antitown.

How ironic, I vote someone for claiming they have reasoning but refusing to reveal it, and you jump at me for not having reasoning.

Double standards = bad

Having reasoning but not revealing it, at least not straight away, is reasonably common. You will see many players using it deliberately to get initial reactions. Having no reasoning at all is clearly bad. There is no double standard here.

[Paradoxombie]

I HAD REASONING! Simenon only claimed to have reasoning.

why didn't you go after Simenon?

[Patrick]

We've been over this. You voted him without explaining why he would be more likely to act in that way as scum, or why it would be beneficial to act that way as scum. When I pointed this out, you said that his intent is irrelevant which is completely wrong. Thus, you hadn't really explained why you thought he was scum. That's what bothered me.

[Paradoxombie]

Even if you really believe that it still doesn't answer my question.

[Teffc]

I am neck-deep in exams here. so i will post smth more consistent tomorrow