Mini 416 - AM Mafia - Game Over D:

[Guardian]

*_*_*_* Vote Count - 6:25 AM *_*_*_*

“No day is so bad it can't be fixed with a nap.”

~ Carrie P. Snow

Panzerjager -3- (Jingolaw, Jack, Guardian)

Guardian -2- (Panzerjager, Cog888)
Not voting -1- (Elias_The_Thief)

With 6 alive, it takes

4

to lynch.


********************************

Good, Cog isn't scum, or is scum with PJ.

PJ is obviously trying to look like he is distancing with me to make me mislynched tomorrow.

Lynch PJ, now, please.

[PJ.]

Guardian, hard evidence. Answer my previous question.

[Elias_the_thief]

Um, guardian, why were you just trying to get out the massclaim for extra info for the town, and now you dont want to tell what you found out? I though you wanted the town to have as much info as possible. Also, stop trying to pressure people into hammering.

[Jack]

panzer and guardian are so obviously distancing scum.

[PJ.]

Who looks more like scum in this situation? The one who is squirming or the one who is asking reasonable questions? Guardian looks like pressurized scum to me.

[Guardian]

Look, Panzer cannot have any reasonable suspicion of me. I had the opportunity to hammer him earlier, and I did not, yet he keeps being suspicious of me. He is obviously scum. I am really afraid that I will be mislynched tomorrow.

Elias, I don't want to reveal any information because I wanted a mass claim to make sure the town (myself included) made a good decision. However, it has become clear to me through Panzer's obvious bad logic that Panzer is the only possible decision.

Since I didn't hammer he cannot have any reasonable suspicion of me, yet he has failed to acknowledge this in any way. Either he is a complete idiot and fool, or he is scum.

.

[Jingolaw]

I suppose I should jump in here to reiterate, for the umpteenth time, that I agree that Panzer is scum. With Panzer lynched, and that suspicion likely confirmed, we’ll have more to discuss. Until then, I see little reason to continuously rehash the accusations, which Panzer never answers directly anyway. I don’t mean that as an

ad hominem

; Panzer’s a perfectly good player. It’s just that in this game, he’s perfectly good scum, and he’s cornered.

I’m not discounting a Panzer-Guardian link, nor am I discounting a Panzer-CoG link. While Panzer’s still around, though, the more we yap about it, the more chance the partner has to backpedal and distance. I value the information that comes from discussion, but in this case I think there’s enough evidence already in the thread to work backwards from the lynch and at least get reasonable leads there. I’m concerned that discussion at this point may be obfuscatory.

And yes, this is a very Jingolaw-centric view of the game: “Jingolaw has made up his mind and spoken, so there can be nothing more to say.” So be it. But my vote was very carefully cast in the first place, and I have only grown stronger in my suspicions since then...which was almost 3 weeks ago.

Instead of my continuing to post this same information along with an invitation to reread the game for a detailed analysis of my accusations, I’ll invite everyone to just imagine that I’m cutting and pasting this same post into the game at the top of each page.

[PJ.]

Now the insult come flying out. You have still failed to address the point. Why am I scum. You have never given any reason at all as to why I am scum. Why haven't you addressed that? My guess is that yound nothing because I have followed logic the entirety of the game. You should be lynched today and then us townies can lynch your buddy tomorrow.

Admit it you got caught. You didn't want to hammer because there is good possibility of a doc and if he proctect the right guy you'd be fucked. That's why you wanted to mass claim so you could find the doctor, hammer me, and then kill doctor at night. With the RB lynched and Doctor in the open, you and your scum buddy would be in the clear. That is why you didn't hammer me, not because you were unsure.

So either give me evidence or lay down and die scum.

P.S Both scum are on my wagon.

[Guardian]

Panzer, if you are indeed town, you lost us the game, at least as far as convincing me is concerned. The only group not including you I see as feasible at this point is Jack-Jingolaw, but your behavior has made me almost certain you are among the scum.

I, like Jingolaw, am pretty much decided, and don't see much reason to post anymore... If Panzer keeps coming out with the same dumb accusations and bad logic, I will come back and keep saying it's dumb... but please, Cog/Elias, one of you put him out of his misery.

[PJ.]

Guardian, Why can't you give me a straight answer? What makes you think I'm scum. You keep saying "YOU'RE SCUM YOU'RE SCUM YOU'RE SCUM." Why am I scum? Give me an answer Guardian.

Same goes to you Jingolaw. Why? You have not posted anything other the because I voted you very quickly to start the day and the CoG came out that he's a tracker.

Neither of you have pointed why I am scum. I have not seen any viable reasons to why I am scum from either of you.

[Guardian]

Why are you scum? BECAUSE WE ARE AT LYLO, I HAD A CHANCE TO HAMMER YOU, I DIDN'T HAMMER YOU, AND YOU ARE STILL TRYING TO CAST SUSPICION ON ME. DOCTOR OR NOT, THE PLAY IF I AM SCUM WAS OBVIOUSLY TO HAMMER YOU IN A REASONABLE SOUNDING FASHION, AND THEN GET A NK OFF, PUTTING THE TOWN AT 2-2, and a SCUM WIN.

This is not hard to understand, and your failure to address it in any way makes me certain you are scum.

[PJ.]

I mean you have said you have re-read and re-read and re-read. Why can't you tell me what you found on the last one that condemned me. That is all I want to know.

For The record, he said re-read 21 times since he has been here. He also claimed he re-read about 13 times(different things mind you) before he called me scum.

And I was roleblocking him thinking he could be a godfather.

Wow, I am dense. PJ, no need to go quote this for me. It still doesn't make you town...

But my supposed "catches" on the re-read were non-existent.

Cog, so you are saying that PJ is mafia, and that someone else is the mafia roleblocker? That is plausible, but not necessarily true.

If we mislynch here, we lose, I don't think getting role information is a bad idea.

That is 7 post before he calls me condemnable. Within thos 7 post he pushes a mass claim and also pushes that I am a townie RB and that THERE IS a mafia role blocker. He was very adament about this. Which is contradictory with the second bolded statement. And I don't believe CoG every stated that. He is just putting words in his mouth.

I will further make a case if requested by somebody.

[PJ.]

But, you are wary. Doctor protects. 3-2 they lynch you after mislynching me 3-1 night kill. 2-1. They lynch your scumbuddy. Town win. This game is far from over.

[Guardian]

If I were scum, which I am not:

Chance of doctor protecting whoever we decide to kill, assuming there is a doctor, is 2/3 * 1/4 = 1/6 chance. Say they lynch me, and we get the next nightkill in.

Lynching my scumbuddy = 1/2 chance. So, if I am scum, you think I didn't hammer on a 1/12 chance that a doc protects, and that I assumed there is a doc with so many other power roles floating around? Give me a break!

Lynch the scum, this argument is so flawed I can't believe I am still engaging in it.

[CoG888]

Why are you scum? BECAUSE WE ARE AT LYLO, I HAD A CHANCE TO HAMMER YOU, I DIDN'T HAMMER YOU, AND YOU ARE STILL TRYING TO CAST SUSPICION ON ME. DOCTOR OR NOT, THE PLAY IF I AM SCUM WAS OBVIOUSLY TO HAMMER YOU IN A REASONABLE SOUNDING FASHION, AND THEN GET A NK OFF, PUTTING THE TOWN AT 2-2, and a SCUM WIN.

Total WIFOM here, Gaurdian. You need a stronger case against someone to lynch at this stage of the game.

[Guardian]

Cog, total

WIFOM

logic there. Panzer, as a townie, has no reason to be suspicious of me. His alleged suspicion of me is the only reason I need to lynch him at this stage in the game.

We are at lylo; it is just the same situation as if we were in an 2 town 1 scum endgame with Panzer, you, and I. Panzer votes you, and I don't hammer. He then unvotes you, and says he has suspicion of me. My not hammering there confirms that I am town.

Similarly, my not hammering panzer earlier here confirms to him that I am town. His supposed suspicion of me is BS, he cannot possibly have such suspicion, and from that alone I can infer that he is scum. I also picked up some stuff on him and on others in the re-read, but I have no inclination whatsoever to share those thoughts until tomorrow.

[CoG888]

You are ignoring the possibility of a second roleblocker or a doctor. If either of those roles exist, and play correctly tonight, we can still win. You are NOT cleared just because you didn't hammer.

[Guardian]

You are ignoring the possibility of a second roleblocker or a doctor.

O RLY?

[PJ.]

Guardian, you are squirming, WIFOMing, and digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole. The only way you will convince me that you are not scum is if you tell me what you found in your umptenth re-read, that condemned me.

[Guardian]

Elias, what are your thoughts on all this?

From my perspective, Panzer + someone = scum, or Jack + Jingolaw = scum. I don't see any other scenario making sense.

[Elias_the_thief]

I agree with panzer and cog. Theres no way that you should be so confident on so little. How can you draw something about panzers alignment from the fact that YOU didnt hammer? that *at the very most* could say something about your alignment, but that would be WIFOMy.

[Guardian]

.

Let's assume Panzer is town. He is at lynch -1 at lylo (the doc/rb argument is crap, period). I fail to hammer him.
What would he assume my alignment is? Town right? Like, no possible way I could be scum, right? No???

And then he votes me. I can't believe three people disagree with me here, because only two of them could be scum. My argument is NOT WIFOM. It is clear cut, obvious logic. If I am scum, I hammer, theoretical doc doesn't get absurdly lucky, scum wins.

I am really beginning to reconsider whether or not Jack is the better target.... He is the one who I thought was scum from the beginning.... I don't see how people are not understanding that Panzer has no reason to think I am scum, though.... Not understanding this argument is.... sad really. Panzer, if town, cannot be suspicious of me; he can ONLY be suspicious of Jack + Jingolaw, because those two were the only ones who did not have an opportunity to hammer.

Wow, this logic is so obvious, yet someone who is not scum is doubting it. I am at a loss...

[Jack]

He should seriously be lynched by now.

[Elias_the_thief]

Ok. So yeah, the only thing you not hammering means is that you are either scum with panzer, or town. What does this say about his alignment? nothing.

However, the inconsistency still stands. It still seems to me that Cog's claim is genuine, therefore there are either 2 blockers, or PJ is scum who was forced to come up with a claim to explain being with TSQ, and was caught by the fact that his claim didnt explain what it should. But then the question becomes, if panzer isnt RB, what happened with Cogs track? if there was another RB, why didnt they counterclaim? either there actually is a mafia roleblocker, who didnt want to out PJ, or i have no idea. either way this is very confusing.

To get back to Guardian, his alignment depends entirely on PJ's. If PJ is scum, im convinced that Guardian is. If PJ is town, I dunno. it probably wont matter because we're at LYLO. But i'd have to think he's town.

As for Jack, it's hard to get a read on him. He seems convinced of PJ's guilt, but id like to wait til we explain Cogs result before we go lynching people.

[Guardian]

To get back to Guardian, his alignment depends entirely on PJ's. If PJ is scum, im convinced that Guardian is.

I am tempted to unvote solely because of that assertion; if that is how you are going to read it, then the town is screwed tomorrow even if PJ is scum and we lynch correctly....

Though Elias could be scum with PJ; I am not feeling that though. Maybe PJ is town and is correct about Jack and Jingolaw....

Cog not hammering is interesting information...

unvote

for now, I've given you all plenty of opportunities to hammer... Maybe PJ

is

town, has been suspecting me with really bad reasoning, and Jack and Jingolaw are the scum? I need to think about this a bit.