Touhou: MitLoF ~ Makai Mix (Game Over)

[SXTLHGaiden]

prod dodging, sorry.

[Jingle]

Okay, time to explain the mollie paranoia.

A preface: Mollie here reminds me of Mollie from OC. This is probably due to the fact that she's pushing me for reasons that appear shitty to me. This is inherently biased.

Mollie 1v1 with Wis is not alignment indicative in my opinion. Mollie is a good enough player to fake that tunnel as scum. What concerns me about that is that she was basically rabid about her scumread on Wisdom, right up until:

I'm starting to feel better about mollie. Her last posts have been kinda townier.

~Wis

Her next post doesn't address Wis at all, and then she posts:

l m a o.

Not everybody has the hubris that like 50% of posters in this game seem to possess. If a guy thinks it's unwise to determine scum-scum interactions without one of the two flipping scum, it has nothing to do with an individual read on any one of them.

speak english

I'm really not sure what you failed to comprehend in this perfectly constructed sentence.

pedit: I'll vote when I'm good and ready. Though if you're annoyed that that sentence applies to you maybe you should attempt to adopt a play style change.

was it in reference to me? cos I didn't really get that but points scored. \o/

I can't even remember the last time you were town.

eta: metal no, that is trust telling so no

I think jinglebellz is scum with his timing and that he instead of trying to read me himself he is going to sheep anti on it. so I am voting him in order to force an interaction cos I think scum!jinglebellz is 1 of those players who does not like to get close and I am gonna get up all into his grill like he will be able to feel breath and everything.

Reasoning that she wants to vote me=shitmeta. Hey anti, remember the day 1 of that game we're not talking about where I tried to 1v1 you and mastin in order to stir up shit and confuse the thread? What alignment was I?

Better question: Why is mollie, who AFAIK has only played with me in hydras so sure that she can read me. Not Lying Cat, but me. Why is it surprising to her that I would trust you, who not only has a lot of experience with her, but hydras with her, to know her better than I do?

The last point of concern: Mollie was pushing two people yesterday. Kagami and me. Lets look at the VC.

Kagami (9): pieguyn, Jingle, pirate mollie, Alchemist21, beeboy, Curiosity, Jakuzure Nonon, Mononoke, UNZAN
Jingle (4): Om of the Nom, Dreams of an Absolution, Ankamius, nopointinactingup

Oh look. Mollie was pushing the wagon and the counterwagon. And that didn't seem off to her, even when anti brought up how sluggish the counterwagon was.

Anti you have been completely fooled by molliescum before. I know this 100%. Look at this and tell me how sure you are mollie is town. If you're still sure, I'll trust you for now.

[Curiosity]

now do alchemist

~Wis

[haj]

I wish you guys could lynch actual scum rather than hopping from wagon to wagon after realizing how idiotic you are.

[Jingle]

Spoiler: A metric shitton of Alchemist quotes

Did you really just list the mod-confirmed player as a scumspect?

VOTE: Om

I don't like this. He's assuming things. That doesn't necessarily mean scum, but it's a red flag.

Why would they ask that as town?

Maybe cop?

Do not like. Very antitown. Much badness.

VOTE: Kagami

Reasons:
~Trying to shrug off the mod-confirmation of Time as nothing more than flavor confirmation
~His crappy vote on Beeboy

I'm very comfortable with placing my vote here now. Looking back at pie's responses to Kagami's and Beastcharizard's vote on Beeboy, I'm confident that pieguy is town.

This pinged as genuine to me. I think he actually believes om is conftown at this point.

@Jingle: I'm townreading you because I see all your posts coming from town motivation. It's also because I agree with you heavily about Beeboy and Kagami.

There are some who have told me the fact that Time is mod-confirmed means nothing about their alignment. Do you agree with that statement (evidence for why you agree would be nice)?

The question reads as genuine, but the townread on me raises my hackles.

Vote:Haj

The process from this post and this post to this hammer vote was so scummy I'm surprised no one even saw it. He just asked everyone to wagon himself, soft-defends the K-wagon, then take no action and stall for a while until the mislynch is complete. Jingle is still scummy but this is the gem shit

Tons of buzzwords. You also neglected pretty much every post I made between the ones you quoted which clearly stated that I was weary of the day and wanted some flip, any flip. Kagami's townflip makes Jakuzure's ISO much more lynchable now that we finally have a flip.

VOTE: Jakuzure Nonon

Now, this won't change until one of us is dead,

nor will I produce any more relevant content until one of us is dead.

I read that as an extremely anti-town statement

Tons of buzzwords. You also neglected pretty much every post I made between the ones you quoted which clearly stated that I was weary of the day and wanted some flip, any flip. Kagami's townflip makes Jakuzure's ISO much more lynchable now that we finally have a flip.

VOTE: Jakuzure Nonon

Now, this won't change until one of us is dead, nor will I produce any more relevant content until one of us is dead.

How does Kagami's flip in any way make Nonon more lynchable?

~MTD

I'm sure you can figure it out if you use your brain. Judging by your posts in this game, the thing needs some exercise badly anyways.

I also hate arguments like this. Not everyone reads ISO's from the same perspective. Just because you see something doesn't mean everyone else will. If you have something to point out, do it. Plus, your just plain being an ass at this point.

VOTE: Haj

Townish. He seems to care that haj is being incredibly antitown, and he looks to be trying to stop that.

I am actually dumbfounded right now at the fact that they thought I voted them because of who they voted.

@Ank:

I don't like naked votes so please give reasons when you do stuff or else I will conf bias you as scum the whole game.

UNVOTE:

Why does everyone hate when I try to have fun? :'(

This all traces back to your vote on me. Ank votes you for it, you switch to Ank, and a ton of people called you out for your vote on me as well.

I don't think mass claim in a closed setup is ever a good idea.

Scum. He's assigning negative results to voting him. The premise behind his post is "Voting me produces negative results." That has absolutely nothing to do with beast's alignment, and doesn't show an attempt to solve alignments, but rather looks like he's trying to discourage voting alchemist.

VOTE: Action Dan

AD why would you ever think it's a good idea to run a mason gambit as neighbors if you're town? Claiming either this early on is a bad idea IMO as well.

P.S. @whoever thinks it's a good idea: The mass claim is a terrible idea because there are Vanillas in the game. All the scum just claim VT while the PR's out themselves or claim VT. It informs nobody but the mafia and is by no means accurate.

Mass claim is not good now but may be at some point later in the game. The post is townish though. He looks to be trying to figure out AD's thought process.

UNVOTE: ActionDan

Ok. I can see this situation as going a couple ways, but if I'm understanding AD's intentions in that link, I think I can see what he's doing here.

VOTE: Haj

Putting my vote back here.

I attribute actually following links and doing research to town in a vacuum, so this is mildly town.

tbh i feel more town in regards to jngle even towards the end of the day i just didnt want to be on the inevitable kagami lynch

Voting a townread because you didn't want to be on the mislynch?

Seems legit.

VOTE: Om

I can see the point here.

I'm seriously bouncing back and forth on this read.

[haj]

This is /kinda/ starting to make me angry. The wagons with the least resistance aren't going to be the ones you find scum on. The ones with inexplicable resistance such as Nonon's are the ones you're going to find scum on. I thought that was a no-brainer, really.

[haj]

Bonus points: Nonon was on both the Kagami and Om wagons. This is starting to stack up, no?

[pirate mollie]

Okay, time to explain the mollie paranoia.

A preface: Mollie here reminds me of Mollie from OC. This is probably due to the fact that she's pushing me for reasons that appear shitty to me. This is inherently biased.

Mollie 1v1 with Wis is not alignment indicative in my opinion. Mollie is a good enough player to fake that tunnel as scum. What concerns me about that is that she was basically rabid about her scumread on Wisdom, right up until:

I'm starting to feel better about mollie. Her last posts have been kinda townier.

~Wis

Her next post doesn't address Wis at all, and then she posts:

l m a o.

Not everybody has the hubris that like 50% of posters in this game seem to possess. If a guy thinks it's unwise to determine scum-scum interactions without one of the two flipping scum, it has nothing to do with an individual read on any one of them.

speak english

I'm really not sure what you failed to comprehend in this perfectly constructed sentence.

pedit: I'll vote when I'm good and ready. Though if you're annoyed that that sentence applies to you maybe you should attempt to adopt a play style change.

was it in reference to me? cos I didn't really get that but points scored. \o/

I can't even remember the last time you were town.

eta: metal no, that is trust telling so no

I think jinglebellz is scum with his timing and that he instead of trying to read me himself he is going to sheep anti on it. so I am voting him in order to force an interaction cos I think scum!jinglebellz is 1 of those players who does not like to get close and I am gonna get up all into his grill like he will be able to feel breath and everything.

Reasoning that she wants to vote me=shitmeta. Hey anti, remember the day 1 of that game we're not talking about where I tried to 1v1 you and mastin in order to stir up shit and confuse the thread? What alignment was I?

Better question: Why is mollie, who AFAIK has only played with me in hydras so sure that she can read me. Not Lying Cat, but me. Why is it surprising to her that I would trust you, who not only has a lot of experience with her, but hydras with her, to know her better than I do?

The last point of concern: Mollie was pushing two people yesterday. Kagami and me. Lets look at the VC.

Kagami (9): pieguyn, Jingle, pirate mollie, Alchemist21, beeboy, Curiosity, Jakuzure Nonon, Mononoke, UNZAN
Jingle (4): Om of the Nom, Dreams of an Absolution, Ankamius, nopointinactingup

Oh look. Mollie was pushing the wagon and the counterwagon. And that didn't seem off to her, even when anti brought up how sluggish the counterwagon was.

Anti you have been completely fooled by molliescum before. I know this 100%. Look at this and tell me how sure you are mollie is town. If you're still sure, I'll trust you for now.

1. so I am scum cos I am pushing you for what you think are shitty reasons cos this is what I did in oc? I don't think they are shitty reasons but they are reasons that I exactly cannot talk about.
2. I said I was feeling better about wis before he said he wa feeling better about me. which is why I did not respond to his next post after he said he was feeling better about me too that you quoted. what it looks like is you are doing is trying to pull a narrative out of your ass.
3. I am not sure that I can read you but I sure as fuck thought that you had reason to read me. my bad, if you are town. the whole reason I am laying off of you for a bit is cos I do not wanna make the same mistake I made with kagami where a player doesn't live up to my expectations and so I autoread them as scum.
4. yep I was pushing 2 wagons on 2 people that I thought were scum. go figure! did you know that sometimes the top 2 lynch choices are sometimes on scum? it is true! I have seen it before would you like a list of games?
5. I don't like the last appeal to anti 1 bit.

[pieguyn]

I'd rather vote Haj. The linked QT gave me more insight to AD's possible motivation for his neighbor-mason gambit. What's your reason for Jakuzure scum?

my reason for reading Dan as scum doesn't particularly have anything to do with the gambit

Jakuzure is scum bc their play this game has basically been them going around trying to avoid antagonizing anyone at all. their pushes D1 consisted entirely of sheeping mollie/Wisdom (the latter of which was the main wagon), and their push today was Om (the main wagon again) with no reasoning. this was most notable in the early game where they were upright buddying most of the players and not doing anything controversial whatsoever; there was also their reaction to haj which sucked.

the only plausible way you could argue that jingle is the fallguy is if feirei and alchemist are both scum

...which actually isn't that crazy...

it's probably not the case that all the scum who are lining up Jingle for a lynch are pushing him as scum at the moment. we have Time/Gaiden/Saki/beast who are all being giant lurkfucks and it would not be hard for someone who is currently townreading him to just go back and flip flop on it later. the point is, if this ~is~ what's going on, NPIAU and Ank would be setting up the lynch in advance.

you are also townreading gaiden which I really don't understand.

Gaiden is Sakura's read straight up except I want her to confirm it since she hasn't mentioned him in a while. Jingle/Alch are also POE reads for me (both are on the wagon with Jakuzure).

also, I'm not sure what your point is with Time's role

also also, wagon Dan with me

[pieguyn]

He put out a stance on Kagami on Day 1 and asked why people were scumreading her. Considering that she was basically the primary focal point for half of Day 1, this is reasonable. The length of the topic exploded so fast that I'd pretty much expect anyone who's jumping in the middle and not wanting to read back would start here.
He's the only one giving any shits about haj's anti-town crusade against Jakuzure. I like this because worse case scenario, haj is threatening to basically make two players in the game nothing but noise (him and Jaku) until it's dealt with and no one else is caring. He's been focusing mainly on the focal points for the day instead of meandering into random nonsense. I'd rather wait until AD posts more (which he's already doing as I'm typing this, I see) before really judging this much more, as it has only been a few days since the day started.

yeah, I admit he did that, but that's literally the best thing he did and it still makes a lot of sense for scum to do. the majority of his posts were mostly filler and aren't particularly town motivated.

if haj has a soft guilty he'll get the fuck in here and claim it eventually, given he already got outed. there's not much of a point in explicitly trying to focus on it, especially to the extent he's been doing. also, I don't get what you mean with threatening to make Jakuzure into nothing but noise.

One thing I will note is that you're getting bias from how many posts this game has. AD had multiple pockets of time posting literally nothing in LoL, up to about the timeframe that this game was even up. Go through his ISO in LoL and pay close attention to the time stamps. It's very easy to point towards content levels and see the disparity, but the relevance of it is a lot lower than you think. We've only been playing this game for EIGHT DAYS (not counting night 1).

er

as I said, this has nothing to do with the LEVEL of activity. it's the QUALITY of the activity that counts

[haj]

Yea, it's a guilty.

[Curiosity]

Bonus points: Nonon was on both the Kagami and Om wagons. This is starting to stack up, no?

So was Alchemist, so was Jingle. Vote them.

~Wis

[Curiosity]

Yea, it's a guilty.

?

~Wis

[haj]

Bonus points: Nonon was on both the Kagami and Om wagons. This is starting to stack up, no?

So was Alchemist, so was Jingle. Vote them.

~Wis

No!!!!!

Yea, it's a guilty.

?

~Wis

Is that confusing?

[Curiosity]

Yes? What are you talking about? What guilty?

~Wis

[haj]

The one on Nonon.

[Ankamius]

er

as I said, this has nothing to do with the LEVEL of activity. it's the QUALITY of the activity that counts

How is that different?

[Curiosity]

I don't believe you

~Wis

[haj]

Believe the flip, not me.

[Jingle]

1. so I am scum cos I am pushing you for what you think are shitty reasons cos this is what I did in oc? I don't think they are shitty reasons but they are reasons that I exactly cannot talk about.
2. I said I was feeling better about wis before he said he wa feeling better about me. which is why I did not respond to his next post after he said he was feeling better about me too that you quoted. what it looks like is you are doing is trying to pull a narrative out of your ass.
3. I am not sure that I can read you but I sure as fuck thought that you had reason to read me. my bad, if you are town. the whole reason I am laying off of you for a bit is cos I do not wanna make the same mistake I made with kagami where a player doesn't live up to my expectations and so I autoread them as scum.
4. yep I was pushing 2 wagons on 2 people that I thought were scum. go figure! did you know that sometimes the top 2 lynch choices are sometimes on scum? it is true! I have seen it before would you like a list of games?
5. I don't like the last appeal to anti 1 bit.

1. I'm not 100% on this. I'm pretty interested in what reasons you have that you can't talk about, because to the best of my knowledge there shouldn't be any. But I'm sure that can wait a while, so no pressure.

2.

Don't be scum, wisdom :<

I think they are, wis is noisy scum.

sakura/nacho might be too, nacho would have checked in by now and if he thought that I was actually scum he would have said something. he is avoiding and that pretty much means they are scum especially since sakura's vote came out of nowhere with zero follow-up.

l m a o.

Not everybody has the hubris that like 50% of posters in this game seem to possess. If a guy thinks it's unwise to determine scum-scum interactions without one of the two flipping scum, it has nothing to do with an individual read on any one of them.

just vote me you cheeky scumfuck

I'm starting to feel better about mollie. Her last posts have been kinda townier.

~Wis

Lie harder, mollie.

3. a. I'm much better scum than town. b. My talents as town are mostly PR spec and use oriented. c. I'm also trying not to auto scumread you. Usually when we play, I have sthar8 to read you for me, and I have no confidence in my ability to read you because of that.

4. And it didn't seem odd to you that no other wagons were getting pushed? I thought I was the counterwagon. I don't know why you would think that scum would be the only 2 wagons with anyone really pushing them. It's not that we were the top 2 lynch choices, but rather that we were virtually the only two lynch choices.

5. I'm sorry. I'll tell anti to look at you objectively in a way that's less offensive next time.

[Curiosity]

You're stupidly tunneling on them all game, you're totally the kind of player to lie about a guilty because you're not getting your way

~Wis

[haj]

I didn't bring it up, pie and Dan did. I wanted to play it close to the vest but this town is spiraling dangerously and retardedly out of control.

[Jingle]

Full clarification, if you fakeclaim a guilty as town, I will try to policy lynch you in literally every game we play from now on and laugh at you behind your back.

Is it actually a guilty?

[haj]

Yes!

[haj]

Hurry, my pawns.