Open 21 - Friends and Enemies (Game Over), before 453

[Albert B. Rampage]

Looking back, I realize I was wrong about something:

GUYS GUYS! GATHER UP, I GOT SOMETHING IMPORTANT TO SAY.

*everyone gathers around*

If there's a goof in the masonry, the law of balance dictates there be a goof in the other camp as well. I believe that goofball to be ryan. Therefore the mafia will likely NK me over papaya for my brilliant play thus far, whereas the town should lynch Adel for her convincingly townish play thus far.

All three of the scum are goofs

ryan. $10 says I know why he got modkilled.

Maybe this is obvious to everyone but me - I haven't got a clue. Is it something we're allowed to speculate about in the thread? Lowell, if your suspicion is correct, could our knowing about it help us find ryan's scumbuddies in any way?

Stay on topic, Ripley

He was referring to this game in another.

[ryan]

Actually that it isn't correct Albie. I PMed my scum-mate in Day instead of night session. Simply done, I broke the rules and got killed, nothing more nothing less.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Actually that it isn't correct Albie. I PMed my scum-mate in Day instead of night session. Simply done, I broke the rules and got killed, nothing more nothing less.

Thank you for providing us with the information we wanted. I see my little bait worked perfectly. Considering the timing of the pm, I believe it had nothing to do with the NK, nor a fake mason counter-claim - too early for the mafia. It couldn't have been encouragement, that could wait. It had to be something important, a complete change in strategy.

ryan couldn't have pm'd Aimee nor Bird, they were away. Ripley and Sir T are both on my side, and backtracking wouldn't be an option for them. Adel was on the chopping block, and any change of strategy would fall on deaf ears. This leads to one conclusion: ryan pm'd Lawrencelot. Law was going against the grain, and attacking me when others would support me. It makes perfect sense for ryan to discuss a change of plans in the middle of the day with Lawrencelot. I also know Law as a lawful(forgive the pun) IC, so it would be natural for Law to report ryan.

This is a player that my mason inner circle have targeted since the end of Day1. I myself suggested we shouldn't go after him until other townies have stated their qualms about him, but I will venture a

Vote: Lawrencelot

. The plan we've discussed last night is well on track already:

1) Exchange early coded "proof of membership" posts: Check.
2) Gather public support: Check.
3) Direct attention to our prime suspect: Check.
4) Collect content from every player: ...

I encourage everyone to place Lawrencelot at

at least

-2 to punctuate the urgency of the situation. A Papaya, do us the honor of exposing our case on this suspect - in other words, cut the cake

[Adel]

I'm such an easy target it is sick. I think Thoepor got lynched because a) he supported ABR often and well, b)I accused him of being scum with ABR and Papaya, and c) the scum thought he was a mason.

I fail to see how me offering analysis and opinion on specific players can help town. If I lay out good evidence for some other player being scum, most players will think that player I am targeting is more likely town because of it. If I offer evidence in defense of some player, the town will think that player is more likely guilty. I expect my best efforts to have an effect opposite of what I intend. I'm at a loss as to how I can help.

I will vote for whomever ABR votes for, excluding myself obviously. Unless even

that

is too scummy for y'all.

[Adel]

Apparently I hit "submit" at the same time as ABR.

vote:Lawrencelot.

[Ripley]

Lawrence does look very scummy. One reservation I have about the Lawrencelot/Adel pairing, though, is this:

Adel, are you that certain of papaya being scum that you want to risk being lynched next day? I don't know if you can still do anything about it, but I won't blame you if you unvote. If you keep your vote on him, I might vote A papaya too but if he is town I will vote you next day.

Lowell picked up on this a few posts later:

FOS Lawrence

. The last post (201) really rubs me the wrong way. Looks very much like a set-up to blame someone else for a mislynch. If A Papaya turns up town, this is where I'll go first.

Yes, it's the old "two for the price of one" lynch scum strategy where you hold one townie responsible for the lynch of another. Which wouldn't make much sense if Adel were scum along with Lawrence.

I can certainly see where ABR is coming from with regard to ryan PMing a scum buddy. However, with ryan clearly breaking the rules again here by posting content after his death, I think we have to be slightly sceptical about his motivation for doing that.

[Lowell]

ryan. $10 says I know why he got modkilled.

Maybe this is obvious to everyone but me - I haven't got a clue. Is it something we're allowed to speculate about in the thread? Lowell, if your suspicion is correct, could our knowing about it help us find ryan's scumbuddies in any way?

He talks to his scumbuddies during the day like it's his job. Despite reminders.

Also, I don't buy that he does it by mistake. In 428 I had to remind him several times.

So no, it doesn't really give clues persay. But it doesn't really matter either, not like it's really a scum advantage. In this game, I'd say it was a disadvantage for them.

[Lowell]

okay,

unvote, vote lawrence

. whichever way is fine.


Ripley, you're thinking too hard. Adel and Lawrence are the two we're looking for. Even the passage you quote looks like one scum gently chiding another.

[Aimee]

Note that Lawrence is now at L-2.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote

, so you or someone else can now place their vote.

[Adel]

ummm.. do I follow your unvote?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Err...Adel, why are you doing what I do ? You were a cool anti-hero lol

I'm just unvoting because I trust myself to not quicklynch him, that's all.

[Aimee]

Well, I guess I can put my vote on, for now.

Vote: Lawrencelot

Although I will remove it, if necessary.

[Sir Tornado]

Albert

I am not comfortable with Lawrencelot being on -2.

If he is not the scum, the scum can drop the hammer at any instant, by double posting at the same time, and then later claim that they were trying to put more pressure on him. I'd say put Lawrencelot on

-3

That is much safer.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Sir Tornado, I'm happy you turned up, could you post your analysis ?

Albert

I am not comfortable with Lawrencelot being on -2.

If he is not the scum, the scum can drop the hammer at any instant, by double posting at the same time, and then later claim that they were trying to put more pressure on him. I'd say put Lawrencelot on

-3

That is much safer.

I understand, but I believe that it is safe for the town to put Lawrencelot at -2.

[Sir Tornado]

Albert

Yes, I'll do that in a bit. I need to re read everything taking int consideration your last post about you thinking Ryan PMing Lawrencelot. Need to ascertain if that may be true, and if it is, then what kind of strategy they were jointly pursuing that needed to be changed.

[Lawrencelot]

Ok, if this were a theme game now was the time for my superspectacular claim, but it's an open game. I am a townie (like I said earlier). Since this doesn't defend me well, I will give some arguments. But first I would like to add my surprise at Adel voting me. Adel, I was the one who backed you up all the time remember? I even thought you were a townie in this day. Aside from yourself, I should be the last one for you to vote. I think Adel is scum trying to benefit from my bandwagon.

FOS: Adel

Now, the arguments:
-I am not sure if I would have told the mod if ryan pmed me during the day, although I am honest. I maybe would not notice it, since I am unorganized, absent-minded, and get a lot of pms. But I admit that ABR's post where he votes me is fully logical, since I don't know who ryan would have pmed else.
-But, if you think ryan pmed me, ABR, you can show me where I changed my strategy, or where ryan changed his. If he pmed me, it would have been important, else he would have pmed much earlier.
-If I am scum, who would be scum with me? Adel is an easy solution, so I ask you why you vote me instead of Adel. I think I am going to vote Adel, not to distance myself but because I also think she is scum now.

Vote: Adel

. I am fine with an Adel lynch, and I promise this vote will stay unless the whole town is going after someone else, or if there will be more mason claims or something (which I doubt). I think this argument is good enough to save my skin for a day or a half day. This is a promise and a strong proposal: if you want to lynch me or Adel, lynch Adel first!
-I am a townie, and Adel betrayed me...
-Look for the ones who join my bandwagon without good reasons. ABR had a good reason, Adel did not, Lowell did not, Aimee did not but said she could remove it, now let's see what the rest will do.

Ok, ABR is now totally cleared to me, he is not even acting scummy again.
@Lowell: I thought you were on the anti-ABR side, but after a small reread it appears you weren't. Sorry about that.

And the answer to my question (why ABR/Papaya aren't killed) is not a completely right answer (that it would confirm them as masons) because no one has questioned them being masons this day.

Now let's start lynching Adel! (If the town wants it)

[Aimee]

Sir Tornado, I will remove my vote, if you want.

unvote

[Sir Tornado]

Ok, Albert accused Lawrencelot of being scum. I would say, looking at Lawrencelot's last post, it definitely has a lot of scum tells:

Throughout this post, I will be refering to this:

As everyone would expect, I admit I was really wrong on who was scum etc. Ryan being mafia makes the chance that ABR and Papaya are mafia less than 1%. They both acted very scummy the whole game, but I will believe them now. Luckily it took only a mafia kill for me to believe it, no mason is killed. So, I have less doubt that ABR and Papaya are mafia, but there is one important question left: why isn't ABR or Papaya nightkilled if they are mason?

For the record, although I now believe ABR and Papaya, I still don't think Adel is that scummy. She acted very townie-ish to me, and although she was wrong, there were more people wrong (more than 3 I thought), so that doesn't necessarily mean she's scum. But, Adel, me and Lowell are most suspicious, but I don't think we should vote one of us right away, at least until the lurkers catched up.

@ABR 1: I don't think we should lynch anybody yet. Wait for the lurkers.
2: Alright.
3: No. I will not let you lead the town. No one should do that, and especially not you. Even though I believe you are mason now, you definately did not act pro-town the whole game, and you definately don't deserve to become the leader of the town. If I wasn't wrong all the time, I would laugh at this proposal, but I have no rights to do that now.

In more detail:

As everyone would expect, I admit I was really wrong on who was scum etc. Ryan being mafia makes the chance that ABR and Papaya are mafia less than 1%. They both acted very scummy the whole game, but I will believe them now.

I never thought ABR acted much scummy. A Papaya, yes, acted tremendously scummy. But, I always had ABR somewhere in the middle, more scummy than Theo and Ripley (and, obviously myself!), but less than Lowell, Adel, Ryan and Lawrencelot (will leave Bird and Aimee out of this, because no idea on them yet). But, as I had stated several times on Day 1, I too had said that unless the claimed masons get their choice of lynch 100% correct, I would not believe them on day 2. Well, they did call Ryan scum, and he turned out to be one, so, I believe them completely now.

For the record, although I now believe ABR and Papaya, I still don't think Adel is that scummy. She acted very townie-ish to me, and although she was wrong, there were more people wrong (more than 3 I thought), so that doesn't necessarily mean she's scum. But, Adel, me and Lowell are most suspicious, but I don't think we should vote one of us right away, at least until the lurkers catched up.

What I don't understand here is, why is Lawrencelot sticking up for Adel if he is a scum? I don't think Ryan/Adel/Lawrencelot can be a scum team. It is too obvious a team. I don't think they would all be on the same side day 1. Some one would pretend to be a town or lurk.

Lawrencelot says that there were more than 3 people wrong... I don't know where he gets it. The only people who thought Ryan was not a scum were Adel and Lawrencelot. I, Ripley, Theopor, ABR and A Papaya all at some point or other claimed Ryan as scummy. One of us (Theo?) even voted him after RBR and Papaya claim.

@ABR 1: I don't think we should lynch anybody yet. Wait for the lurkers.

Agreed! I think everyone would agree to this one. Seems fair enough to me.

2: Alright.

I agree to this too. And, if the day 1 vote is carried forward to day 2, then

unvote

(my day 1 vote was on Aimee till she posted, which she has now, and if it is carried to day 2, I don't see a reason why I should keep it)

3: No. I will not let you lead the town. No one should do that, and especially not you. Even though I believe you are mason now, you definately did not act pro-town the whole game, and you definately don't deserve to become the leader of the town. If I wasn't wrong all the time, I would laugh at this proposal, but I have no rights to do that now.

Why not? I remember that early in the game, we agreed that Masons should be on the forefront to hunt the mafia. They can formulate strategy during the night (which they seem to have) and they know the third innocent mason whom they can eliminate from the equation, and we can. I do not have doubts of ABR's claim any more, not even a shred of it. I think it would be a good idea to follow ABR right now, because that seems to be our best chance.

More to follow.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I have a question to Lawrencelot and Adel:

What if you are

both

townies ?

[A Papaya]

I do think that Lawrence is todays lynch. I have no problem doing this:

Vote: Lawrence

.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I do think that Lawrence is todays lynch. I have no problem doing this:

Vote: Lawrence

.

Papaya, the case!!

[Sir Tornado]

Haha this is hilarious. Look at Lawrence's and Adel's posts today. It's clear what the plan is.

"I defended Lowell and ryan repeatedly." -Adel, said with sincere regret

"[ryan] had a couple posts defending Lowell and Lawrencelot." -Adel, poingiantly

"Adel, me, and Lowell are the most suspicious." -Lawrence, factually

"Lowell sure had a change of mind." -Lawrence, aghast


1) Lawrence, nice try grouping me with you two. "Change of mind"? Really? Show me where I doubted anyone's claim and I'll give you a cookie. In fact, the one hasty post I DID make after the claim was to chide albert for REVEALING himself. No one is confused by the "uh, oh, 3 suspicious people but only 2 scum left!" tactic.

2) Here, I'll answer your "important question": ABR and Papaya aren't dead because, by killing them, you're exposing them as masons, whereas now you can try the pathetic "still not sure about them" angle.

Hey, I love the shotgun approach to confusing the town here (throw a bunch of theories, hope one hits), but it just isn't working. Wow this win was easy. I mean, just wow.

Lowell,

You seemed on the same wavelength to me as Adel during the day 1. She defended you many times, and you did not make any comment regarding it. You both went lurker hunting -- I remember an incident where both of you unvoted Theopor and voted A Papaya within 10 posts of each other. If I would be honest with you, had Adel been lynched and turned out to be a scum on day 1, you would have been 2nd or 3rd in my list of suspects after Ryan and Lawrencelot

Why is ABR or A Papaya not nightkilled if they are masons?

I found this a bit intriguing too. The only reason I could surmise is, perhaps, that the scum might have felt that NKing ABR would confirm that he is the mason.

[Sir Tornado]

Albert

Well, I am not fussy about who puts the case out, really... just be done with it

[Albert B. Rampage]

Albert

Well, I am not fussy about who puts the case out, really... just be done with it

Sure 8)

Sir Tornado, could you continue placing your vote on Aimee until she posts the person-by-person analysis she promised ?

Lawrencelot case coming up asap.