Mini 458 - Game over!

[Mastermind of Sin]

I would like J-Man to claim.

[Adel]

I do not want J-man to claim. If he is just a townie no one will believe him, is he is a power role then the scum benefit, and if he is scum he will claim a power role and get a pass for the rest of the day and probably beyond. I don't see any of those outcomes really benefiting the town.

His scumtells to date aren't that significant to me, later they may be, but not yet. I have no problem with the votes that are on him, but it is

way

too early to lynch

anyone

. What is our deadline? Right, we do not have one.

On the other hand, with my 2.5 games of experience, I may be missing something.

Why would it be

good

for J-man to claim? There very well may be a reason I am not familiar with.

J-man, I would like to see you defend yourself point by point.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Adel, by your logic, no one should ever claim. Do you really believe that it is helpful for the town to have no one ever claim?

[J-man]

now i was really tempted to claim cop/doc just to make you guys squirm because i know that since i am a vannilla townie i really dont have a whole lot of use to you guys, i mean kill me if you will althought esspeccially this early in day 1 its not a good idea (and yes nomatter how many pages we have turned there really isnt any info that has been gleaned)

my eyes are on dylan pickem, and the admiral and i think i shall FOS:MoS
from left to right is where my suspisions lie, i shall clarify and defend myself at a later date bit of a time crunch for now

[Adel]

Dude, J-man, you aren't doing yourself any favors. Saying that you aren't a werewolf, then saying that you felt the temptation to fakeclaim, and then claiming vanilla townie? I'm starting to feel the temptation to vote for you now. It isn't so much what you say as it is the way you say it, that makes you look scummy. You need to put more words up in your own defense.

Why do you have a FoS on MOS? OMGUS? Again, it does look that way.

Adel, by your logic, no one should ever claim. Do you really believe that it is helpful for the town to have no one ever claim?

If it was then a mass roleclaim on day 1 would be a good idea. If early claims are pro-town, then all power roles (with obvious exceptions) should claim in the same line as their random vote.
If claiming is protown, then we shouldn't have to apply the pressure of a lynch for power roles to claim.

Are you suggesting that all cops should announce themselves immediately? How about vigs? Masons? Docs? Then why is pressuring someone for a claim, based on very little evidence, a good idea?

I may be missing something, if I am, please illuminate me.

[Mastermind of Sin]

It is helpful for someone to claim before they are lynched. At this point, I intend to lynch J-man, and his most recent posts have only convinced me further. Since he was only 2 votes away from lynch, I wanted him to claim. If he claim was believable, then we can leave him alive. It is better that we not lynch someone whose claim we believe is protown and make the scum have to kill them, rather than do the scum's work for them. I am not claiming that people should claim without pressure. That is not helpful. However, it is extremely unhelpful for the town for someone to refuse to claim when they are about to be lynched.

[Adel]

However, it is extremely unhelpful for the town for someone to refuse to claim when they are about to be lynched.

I agree with that.

I think I was interpreting your case to be that we should bandwagon players in sequence until each player claims, or looks scummy enough for someone to drop the hammer.

Regarding J-man, i have my doubts, but not enough to vote for him yet, and certainly

not

enough to support his lynching.

Question for entire town: J-man claimed vanilla, do you believe him?

[Adel]

I would like J-Man to claim.

I didn't see him as being about to be lynched at this point. I thought it was way too early for anyone to be endorsing that. I saw this as a bandwagon on slight evidence just being used as an excuse to pressure a power role into outing himself.

If anyone thought that there was enough reason to cast the last two votes (hard to quantify), then J-man obviously should claim.

I do not know what to make of his role claim of vanilla.

[ThAdmiral]

@ J-man: you mentioned in your last post that you had suspicions against dylan, pickem, mos, as well as myself. Is this just because we are voting/advocating votes on you?

Also, does anyone find it ironic, not to mention hypocritical, that j-man wanted a quick-lynch, and now that he is facing a potential one he is saying it would be a bad idea?

[Adel]

Good questions Admiral, similar to the one I posted earlier.

Also, does anyone find it ironic, not to mention hypocritical, that j-man wanted a quick-lynch, and now that he is facing a potential one he is saying it would be a bad idea?

Yes.

Did you miss my earlier post directed at you?

While I don't like the posts by J-man so far, I'm going to wait for a little more evidence to base an opinion on.

Voting for lurkers is often a mafia strategy, as they know that they only have to post enough to not be classified lurkers.
It also means that the person killed doesn't provide the town with much information, as he probably didn't get on enough to accuse people etc.

So what is your prescribed course of action? Target those who chase lurkers? Ignore lurkers as if they aren't in the game?

In my opinion our initial objective should be to pressure all players into posting enough content that a reasonable case can be made against a couple players, and a reasonable case can be made for clearing the rest. So long as there is a player out there that I don't have enough information on to found an opinion upon, I'll refuse to extend that player the benefit of the doubt.

ThAdmiral: could you clarify your post, or do you stand by your words as they currently exist?

I do not like the possibility of J-Man being lynched while we still have so many players that I have so little information on.

[pickemgenius]

Oooh questions! YAY!!!


Alrighty:


Do I believe his claim?: it was pretty ambiguous.

Do I find it ironic that he suddenly doesn't want a quick lynch?: heh, a newer player under pressure, it's weird, but I don't find it totally strange since we change our minds constantly in this game anyway.

[Kate]

I would like J-Man to claim.

This is really stupid, if he's a doc or cop, he might claim, if he's mafia, he'll still probably claim cop or doc, or claim vanilla, like he did. If he's a normal townie, he'll claim vanilla like he did.

So asking him to claim, we'll either get a doc, cop, or townie. But we'll actually never know, so what's the point?

now i was really tempted to claim cop/doc just to make you guys squirm because i know that since i am a vannilla townie i really dont have a whole lot of use to you guys,

Saying you were going to fake-claim is extremely stupid. Doing that will most likely get you lynched if someone counter claims.

Question for entire town: J-man claimed vanilla, do you believe him?

I don't know if I believe him, he's either scum, or an innocent townie.

Also, does anyone find it ironic, not to mention hypocritical, that j-man wanted a quick-lynch, and now that he is facing a potential one he is saying it would be a bad idea?

I don't really think so, maybe he wasn't really thinking when he said that at first, and you can't blame him for saying not to lynch him, no one

wants

to be lynched, mafia nor town.

[Trombonist]

Question for entire town: J-man claimed vanilla, do you believe him?

No i think that he is the cop/doc but doesn't want to revel that to the mafia who he really is.

[Kate]

Question for entire town: J-man claimed vanilla, do you believe him?

No i think that he is the cop/doc but doesn't want to revel that to the mafia who he really is.

What makes you think he's the cop or doc?

[Trombonist]

Because if he was Cop/doc wouldn't he say that he was normal so that

if

we dont lynch him the mafia won't kill him.

[Trombonist]

Can the mod say all the jobs handed out or is there a place i can go to see them?

[pickemgenius]

Can the mod say all the jobs handed out or is there a place i can go to see them?

Nope, and Nope.

[J-man]

so for serious my FOS on MoS was kinda a jibe not really all that serious and yes that whole post was oozing OMGUS. ( i guess it would be OMGIS but w/e)
about me pushing for a quick lynch, i dont really think it was all that ironic... well ofcourse i would say that but to explain you need to look at the circumstances that i said that under, what was there 2 votes on the guy i was pushing? definatly not -2 lynch thats forsure and to my defence again i shall post so that the speculation can end that i AM a vannila townie 'QFT'.

but returning to the FOS on MoS i am going to readdress the situation from a new angle, and

Unvote Vote:Mastermind of Sin

now that my folks is because of his actual push for a lynch and as Adel has said its really not a good idea to lynch this early.

and for future reference i wouldnt have claimed doc/cop at -2 anyway im active enough that i likely could have caught it at -1 (and -1 prevents a mafia from counter claiming if because a counter claim requires a vote on the person and if hes mafia and counterclaims/lynchs me my role would be uncovered and it would be a easy kill next day; yes i would sacrifice myself for the town.)

which that paragraph above is why i think MoS is mafia because ive never heard of a townie asking for role on day1 in anything but a -1 lynch position.

ooo that came out good very happy with that post indeed.

[Kate]

Because if he was Cop/doc wouldn't he say that he was normal so that if we dont lynch him the mafia won't kill him.

Yes, but if he were mafia he would say he was normal, and if he was normal, he would say he was normal. So with that, we only know he's mafia, normal town, or cop/doc...we really don't know.

[ThAdmiral]

Did you miss my earlier post directed at you?

While I don't like the posts by J-man so far, I'm going to wait for a little more evidence to base an opinion on.

Voting for lurkers is often a mafia strategy, as they know that they only have to post enough to not be classified lurkers.
It also means that the person killed doesn't provide the town with much information, as he probably didn't get on enough to accuse people etc.

So what is your prescribed course of action? Target those who chase lurkers? Ignore lurkers as if they aren't in the game?

In my opinion our initial objective should be to pressure all players into posting enough content that a reasonable case can be made against a couple players, and a reasonable case can be made for clearing the rest. So long as there is a player out there that I don't have enough information on to found an opinion upon, I'll refuse to extend that player the benefit of the doubt.

ThAdmiral: could you clarify your post, or do you stand by your words as they currently exist?

I do not like the possibility of J-Man being lynched while we still have so many players that I have so little information on.

I say pretty much ignore lurkers for now. They aren't harming the game as much as they would later, and either they will start playing the game or be replaced.

Yes, but if he were mafia he would say he was normal, and if he was normal, he would say he was normal. So with that, we only know he's mafia, normal town, or cop/doc...we really don't know.

Why get him to claim then?

1. If he's cop, he claims cop, we lynch someone else and then the doctor (hopefully) protects him overnight, he reveals his results the next day etc.
2. If he's mafia he might feel pressured and take a risk and claim cop or doc. Either way at least one person knows he's lying, and in these situations the truth will eventually come out.

In this case it is true that we did not gain much information by him claiming vanilla townie, but at least we know that if he is lynched we wont be hitting a power role.

[Kate]

In this case it is true that we did not gain much information by him claiming vanilla townie, but at least we know that if he is lynched we wont be hitting a power role.

But we don't know he's not a power role. He could be cop, he said he wouldn't claim until at least -1, and might not want to come out as cop yet, if he comes out then the doc will have to protect him and a townie WILL die tonight.

He could also be a doc, you never mentioned a doc. If he's a doc, then if he came out he would die tonight, unless doc can self-protect, but I don't think they can.

[J-man]

ThAdmiral wrote

Why get him to claim then?

1. If he's cop, he claims cop, we lynch someone else and then the doctor (hopefully) protects him overnight, he reveals his results the next day etc.
2. If he's mafia he might feel pressured and take a risk and claim cop or doc. Either way at least one person knows he's lying, and in these situations the truth will eventually come out.

my answer to this is assuming that #1+#2 were reasons that you think a claim should happen.

first of all we dont even know IF there is a cop in the game (either way), or a doc for that matter this game 'could' just be mafia and vanilla's and that is another reason for the cop not to claim because he very well may not be protected during the night. so be very careful in the future I am

sure

that it is NOT in the towns favor to get a claim at this point, think this over and know that IGMEOY ALL

secondly about the mafia claiming, this is probably the perfect situation a mafia could go into if he was rdy to claim (likely a cop claim ofc), with either a no kill night (to set up for a doctor) or a random kill using the logic that the mafia didn't want to chance a missed kill and so veared away from claim (incase there was a doc)

all in all claims at this point are bad for town and only have the potential of helping mafia (o look another reason why i think MoS is mafia)

[pickemgenius]

I think MOS is getting too much crap. I think claiming at L-2 isn't ideal (i'd rather wait for someone to be at L-1) but if you *do* have somebody that claims cop for example, firstly the town doesn't waste a lynch on a probable power, secondly the scum are in a really undesireable position for the night kill, because unless there is a claimed doc(which umm would be NK'ed anyway) then the mafia have NO way of knowing if there is a doc, and if there is who they will protect.

I think it's just the playstyle of MOS to ask for claims.

I want to hear from MOS also on this.

[Adel]

MOS, I apologize for this horrible play so far.

Asking for a claim at -2 is not a scumtell!

There is a good case to be made for it, I disagree with it, but there is nothing inherently scummy about thinking that way. Waiting until -1 for a claim could a)result in an unaware noobie dropping the hammer or b)scum dropping the hammer.

I was hoping that J-man would argue his way out of his wagon without resorting to a claim, for the reasons I stated above. He has failed so far. My read is inexperienced scum.

unvote vote: J-man

Note: J-Man is at -1 to lynch! No one vote for him without a dang good reason!

The pressure is on now. J-man: why are you not scum? What have you done that is pro-town? Who is a better candidate for scum than you? What have they done that is anti-town?

[Adel]

Came back to make sure I didn't want to unvote before going to sleep. I feel ok with J-man being at -1. I would prefer to wait longer for a lynch, but his horrid posts are screaming "inexperienced scum" to me. More pressure is called for. He will have a chance to answer.