Open 570: Making Friends and Enemies (Mafia Wins!)

[goodmorning]

There's quite a lot of point. You claim that if he really thought npiau was Town he should have done something about it. I want to know what you think he'd have gained if he had.

I really need you to answer it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's not about what he would have gained.

It's about how he reacted to a wagon that he wasn't happy with.

[goodmorning]

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh

[Shinobi]

lol

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hi Shinobi,

Ae you going to start putting any effort into this game?

Actually, you don't even need to put that much effort in, just vote Dave.

[Wisdom]

I'm starting to think bbt might be scum tbh

Still, we lynch Peabody first

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Annnnnd, there it is.

Build your case Wisdom. I'm here, waiting.

[Shinobi]

@Toffee/Shinobi: If [dave/Josh] had tried to save npiau, what would he gain as Town? As Scum?

IT IS ACTUALLY AN IMPORTANT QUESTION OK

I don't particularly care for dave. I'm willing to take Wisdom's advice here and leave him alone, and I was already reconsidering him earlier because I didn't feel like I had a super strong case on him.

My biggest issue with josh stems from the fact that he started some wagon that was never going to take off at the last second, thereby distancing himself from a town wagon. It reeks of avoiding responsibility and shows a desire to hide.

I'm willing to accept that my off-site experience might be coloring my read here, since they play mafia quite differently from here.

[goodmorning]

I'm asking you specifically, what would Josh have gained from trying to save npiau? Please stop dodging the question.

[Shinobi]

I just told you. I didn't dodge the question.

[Shinobi]

I'm thinking most of your problem comes from a playstyle clash, since mafiascum is so different from where I normally play.

[goodmorning]

No, you didn't answer the question. I asked "what does hypothetical Josh gain from trying to save npiau?" You responded "I just have a problem with the fact that he distanced from the wagon."
That is an answer to a question, but not to the question that I asked.

[Shinobi]

No, I answered the question.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So, this is productive.

Hey, remember when Dave was scum?

Let's vote him.

[Shinobi]

Actually, I can give a better answer:

Why would you sit around and vote yourself/let people sit on the NPAU wagon when you have a townread on him? He never bothered to defend his townread despite knowing that he was the leading wagon almost all of day 1. He was sitting around commenting on useless stuff and doing little to divert attention from the wagon right up until the last 24 hours, where he posts a case on MS that has no chance of gaining momentum right before lynch.

He looks good when NPAU flips town because he wasn't on the wagon. He says that he had a townread on NPAU from earlier but he was commenting on useless stuff instead. Idgi.

[Shinobi]

Also I was under the impression that Dave liked the NPAU wagon and only jumped off when he thought he could be a mason.

Am I misrepresenting this?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That seems correct.

Do you have anything further to add?

[Shinobi]

If that's the only reason that you want to lynch dave, I'm probably not going to lynch him then.

Got any other reasons?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But then he jumped back on because he determined that the link did not actually exist.

But he can't discuss this link because he may be outing a Mason. Even though the person he thought was Mason can't be a Mason because it was based on the assumption that NPAU was Mason, which we now know he was not.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I get the feeling you're not reading.

I have very clearly and explicitly stated my case. I have even re-stated sections of it.

I'm getting frustrated now.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: bbt

im tired of you

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thanks.

You won't have to put up with me much more.

I think I'm going to replace out.

[Wisdom]

oh good, please do

[Shinobi]

But then he jumped back on because he determined that the link did not actually exist.

But he can't discuss this link because he may be outing a Mason. Even though the person he thought was Mason can't be a Mason because it was based on the assumption that NPAU was Mason, which we now know he was not.

Okay.

Why would scum say something that could be easily verified as a lie or not? Would a scum!Dave have interest in hiding his potential mason links upon being pressured? If he determined that the link doesn't actually exist, would he have a reason for his vote? Is it a good one? Is this thought congruent with the rest of his filter? Why?

You've found one thing that

might

make someone scum, but you need to back it up with more evidence. Why is it that only a scum!Dave could come up with this reasoning?

[Shinobi]

I get the feeling you're not reading.

I have very clearly and explicitly stated my case. I have even re-stated sections of it.

I'm getting frustrated now.

Chill. I looked at your case before and I wasn't convinced by it then either. I feel like I could get a better understanding for what's going on by talking it over with you.

Is that really such a bad thing?