Open 570: Making Friends and Enemies (Mafia Wins!)

[goodmorning]

I see some serious problems on both sides of the current 1v1, but more on this tomorrow.

[beastcharizard]

Vote Count

Goodmorning: hephaestus, nopointinactingup
hephaestus: Peabody
Metal Sonic: Goodmorning
nopointinactingup: Scripten, Metal Sonic, Huntress, davesaz
Josh_B: Malakittens
Malakittens: BlueBloodedToffee, Josh_B
shinobi: ucitron00

Not voting: shinobi
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-10-04 20:45:00)

Didn't realize I was so close to a page top.

[davesaz]

Confirm I'm voting NPAU, but you also have me listed as not voting

No clue what you are talking about.

[davesaz]

Observations on the vote:

NPAU and hephaestus both voting GM is interesting because IIRC several people have floated hephaestus as their 2nd-3rd scummiest player. Perhaps both are scum and neither wants to move for fear of looking even more scummy?
What's up with Malakittens and Josh_B? Could be a double OMGUS with a side of BBT? IIRC (without going to the trouble to read back) I think that trio's votes have been pretty jumpy.
ucitron00 being on shinobi makes sense given the past couple of pages, but it's interesting that shinobi is the sole holdout on voting at this time.

[Josh_B]

Observations on the vote:

NPAU and hephaestus both voting GM is interesting because IIRC several people have floated hephaestus as their 2nd-3rd scummiest player. Perhaps both are scum and neither wants to move for fear of looking even more scummy?
What's up with Malakittens and Josh_B? Could be a double OMGUS with a side of BBT? IIRC (without going to the trouble to read back) I think that trio's votes have been pretty jumpy.
ucitron00 being on shinobi makes sense given the past couple of pages, but it's interesting that shinobi is the sole holdout on voting at this time.

I probably have been very jumpy. BBT moderately so. Mala not so much. The only time she moved her vote that I can think of without ISOing her, was off of Nya/heph/??? and onto the GM wagon.- and that is what's up.
I said I was suspicious of her because of it. Then she OMGUS voted me, and I OMGUS'd her back because I wanted to lynch Heph and she started saying that I was trying to policy lynch and should try to go after someone harder.
I am now overwhelmed by the number of vanity votes that I've had.

Also shinobi admitted to Ucitron being town and unvoted him. I'm pretty sure he ninja'd the VC.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sigh.

Prod dodge whilst waiting for Mala's wagon to pick up.

[Scripten]

Sigh.

Prod dodge whilst waiting for Mala's wagon to pick up.

Do you think this is likely to happen?

[Malakittens]

Lolno. It won't happen.

Josh. There can be games I hop a lot others I dont. It depends on how I'm approaching the game scum hunting wise etc.

Please tell me where I omgus voted you. I was not really liking your posts at all besides the one that felt town, but its something scum or town could do either way.

Also I voted hopped more than you are making out to not have hopped. Voted my RVS then nyayayaa, then bbt, then GM then you.

So yeah anyone who I was trying to read or actively hunt. So all my votes have had reasons besides maybe BBT with the votes.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Please tell me where I omgus voted you.

You OMGUS'ed him when you said you were town-reading him, then he said he was suspicious of you and then you were scum-reading him.

It has been pointed out to you before.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I pointed it out to you in 691 and you never fully addressed it.

[beastcharizard]

Hepheastus replied saying he would continue if i gave him the chance and no one else has said they wanted to replace in so they are back in the game.

[goodmorning]

I need to eat something, but main Shinobi problem: case a bit weak, reluctance to share not great. main uct problem: prodding people is absolutely not antitown and he needs to explain why he said that.

[Shinobi]

Mala wagon isn't happening, so if we could just not.

@GM: So what if my case was weak? I thought it was strong. I pushed it and I figured out I was wrong. What's the problem with that?

[nopointinactingup]

This game gets my fullest attention tomorrow.

Why did NPAU put GM to L-1? His vote moves around so much for such faulty reasons. Ugh.

SO you don't think I should wagon my scum read? I already mentioned why she's scum.

I'm going to point out that your "case" on me appears to be "I don't like 29, wah."

Yet your first vote on me, which came after 29, was "a pressure vote."

Interesting.

I had a lot of points on my case. Not just 29.

NPAU you have like 50 scumreads.

Don't get pissy at me when I call you out for having too many.

I don't know where you are going with this because I had two.

I didn't see this tbh.
First, your vote was on Expresso, which is a RVS? If not, you did not provide reasoning for it so I failed to see it otherwise
Second, I saw that you were asking a lot of questions without coming to some sort of conclusion or read. I dropped the vote on you because I thought there was better things to do with my vote.

First, I did explain it, in post 81 and a bit more in 111. Are you actually reading my posts? Or are you just taking potshots at me?
Second, which of my questions are you referring to here? If you wanted to know what I thought about something, why didn't you just ask me?

1> Ok you did, still not a reason to retain that vote for 4 posts. Maybe I wasn't reading your post carefully but you started this conversation so no .. I was not taking potshots at you either.
2> Because. That's not my style. I'm not going to point out all the questions you made during and before post 143 because that's just dumb.
The point is I thought you were suspicious because you didn't draw any pressure/conclusive votes after interacting with the players. I know that was a small point to draw on so I didn't hesitate to unvote you.

~~~~~~~~

Ok. I'm probably the lynch for today, party because somehow this game doesn't make sense to me, partly because I don't really feel like making further efforts to defend myself or pushing my case.

RE: Ulcitron vs Shinobi: I do think Shinobi has a point and alignment speculating based on non-flips is bad play, but it doesn't necessarily lead to Ulcitron being scum. The point about Ulcitron flipping out isn't that strong. This is most likely TvT.

[Malakittens]

Shin -- I didn't like the defense in the newbie game and I sure as hell don't like it now. T_T

At first I misread NPAU's post thought he was saying he was okay with the lynch on himself. Which felt like AtE, but reading back on it further is not what he said at all.

I'm off today so I'll prob look through the game a bit more, but deadline is close so we do need a lynch. So I'll put my vote to the NPAU wagon if needed.

[uctriton00]

I need to eat something, but main Shinobi problem: case a bit weak, reluctance to share not great. main uct problem: prodding people is absolutely not antitown and he needs to explain why he said that.

It wasn't a prod, it was him saying "lets lynch this fuck"

You can't read his abrasive language and think it was a townie prodding for info

[uctriton00]

Mala wagon isn't happening, so if we could just not.

@GM: So what if my case was weak? I thought it was strong. I pushed it and I figured out I was wrong. What's the problem with that?

Can you rehash everything you learned please, I'm not getting why you think I'm town as opposed to before all of a sudden when you cursed me out

[uctriton00]

And it would be nice if you did it in an easy to understand format, with your "case" to boot again

This wouldn't be just for me, this would be for everyone to read. You wouldn't mind doing that now, thx.

[uctriton00]

You are never going to convince your target that they are mafia. That is simply not how this game works.

I reread this like 3 times but am assuming you misworded it. "You are never going to convince your target that they are mafia."

What are you talking about? Are you saying I am trying to convince you that you are Mafia? Are you trying to convince me that I am Mafia? What? As far as I know, all I did was ask "Shinobi, why am I the bullshit on the wagon? Why is it me?"

I'm mad at you because you simply said "I don't have to explain anything to you". That to me is scummy.

So am I scummy because you're mad at me or am I scummy because I play the game differently than you?

You're scummy because you are acting scummy and pretty flaky. I'm trying to follow your logical thought processes and I don't get it, I'm worried you're trying to fake things and make up stuff you don't really see. So yes, it answers both.

And also address that slip I quoted of you; what do you mean "you are never going to convince your target they are mafia". Who is convincing who? When did that happen?

[Josh_B]

Shin -- I didn't like the defense in the newbie game and I sure as hell don't like it now. T_T

At first I misread NPAU's post thought he was saying he was okay with the lynch on himself. Which felt like AtE, but reading back on it further is not what he said at all.

I'm off today so I'll prob look through the game a bit more, but deadline is close so we do need a lynch. So I'll put my vote to the NPAU wagon if needed.

It should be going on the Heph wagon. Like this...

VOTE: Hephastus

everyone's vote should be doing this.

[Huntress]

As far as I can see the clash between Shinobi and uctriton started with Shinobi misunderstanding why uctriton voted NPAU and then went on with the two of them talking at cross-purposes a bit. Which begs the question of whether the misunderstanding was genuine. I think it probably was.

Their only previous connection seems to be uctriton's post 472, where he said Shinobi's reactions to Toffee were scummy, especially his post 70. Shinobi never responded to that and uctriton never followed it up, neither did he mention Shinobi when giving his reads in 621.

Nothing more until Shinobi attacks uct in 733 to 751 to which uct responds calmly at first but later flips out over it.

@ Uctriton:

What happened to your early scum read on Shinobi?
Why does a single vote on you bother you so much?

3) I missed it; answering it now: the scum motivation is that you said you had a case on me and started voting, instead of immediately sharing it.

That's fact not motivation. It's also something that town do too so what makes it scummy in this particular case?

@ Josh: Am I right in thinking that your current scum reads are NPAU, Heph, MS, Mala and possibly Zeb/Dave?

No. Maybe. I'm think I'm ok with you thinking this.

Mala is getting sorted. Who are your scum reads?

Is that no to NPAU, maybe to Heph, and dodging the question to MS and dave?

My current scum reads are Npau and davesaz (his recent posting hasn't changed that), and I'm wondering about uctriton at the moment. No conclusion there yet as I'm shirking the idea that I need to do a meta-read to check that playstyle isn't affecting my read of him.

[Huntress]

1> Ok you did, still not a reason to retain that vote for 4 posts. Maybe I wasn't reading your post carefully but you started this conversation so no .. I was not taking potshots at you either.
2> Because. That's not my style. I'm not going to point out all the questions you made during and before post 143 because that's just dumb.
The point is I thought you were suspicious because you didn't draw any pressure/conclusive votes after interacting with the players. I know that was a small point to draw on so I didn't hesitate to unvote you.

1. What does the number of posts have to do with anything? I left the vote on because I hadn't decided where else to put it, and until he flaked he was my top scum read. The flaking mostly negated that though, and Scripten's posting set him back to null. But the point was that you claimed I

hadn't

provided reasoning, implying that you had checked, maybe hoping that those reading wouldn't bother to read and see you were misleading them?

2. Again you are trying to back down because you know you can't back up your accusation with fact. I'll make it easy for you: Give me one person you thought I didn't vote or offer a conclusion about.

[Metal Sonic]

You're scummy because you are acting scummy

damn!

[Shinobi]

You're scummy because you are acting scummy

damn!

Lol'd irl.

[Shinobi]

Shin -- I didn't like the defense in the newbie game and I sure as hell don't like it now. T_T

At first I misread NPAU's post thought he was saying he was okay with the lynch on himself. Which felt like AtE, but reading back on it further is not what he said at all.

I'm off today so I'll prob look through the game a bit more, but deadline is close so we do need a lynch. So I'll put my vote to the NPAU wagon if needed.

Sorry, I defend my townreads.