Open 21 - Friends and Enemies (Game Over), before 453

[Albert B. Rampage]

I have not yet posted why I think you are scummy. I will allow everyone to post their own analysis of you and ryan.

Albert: was your "don't hunt the lurkers argument" just to keep me from nailing A Papaya? Do you disagree with it now?

What, are you laughing at me ? Are you so narrow-minded as to not understand the extent of your damage, Adel ?

I was protecting papaya because he was afraid of you, the leader of his bandwagon. That fear finally led him to crack, and snitch. Papaya is no doubt a poorly disciplined player, but he is town nonetheless. My reasons of defending are certainly valid. Adel, no hard feelings. You had no way of knowing we were masons, and you played well considering that. Now please be a good girl and die.

Just for the kick of it, I'll ask you for a more detailed analysis of your scumbuddy ryan.

[ryan]

ABR: I'm not quite sure why you are on a crusade to take me down but I'll play along because your play for the most part has been lurking and than POOF, Papaya claims and you are out of the woodwork on me for my vote on him. I think one or both of you are lying right now and your threat on the town to vote your choice or you will expose the "alleged" third mason is an extremely anti town play and I know I'm not the only one to see it. Lowell makes a good point in 270, as the 2nd mason shouldn't have said anything. Now we have two mason's exposed to the three scum out there.

Ripley: We have two alleged masons who if they are truly who they say they are just put themselves out there for the mafia to kill the next two nights. What part are you missing? If they were really masons the 2nd would NOT have confirmed the first and put themselves in the limelight, which is what they just did. (if they are who they say they are) I feel confident that Papaya is our scum and am a little surprised my comments all of a sudden turned you on me.

theopor_COD: No it wouldn't make sense for two scum to claim they were masons BUT does it make sense for the 2nd mason to come out and claim and put TWO mason's in the limelight? Why is it so improbable to you that somebody could be lying?

Adel: IF they both are lying than the real Mason should step forward and say something, if they are telling the truth than NOTHING should be said and ABR should NOT rat out the 3rd member of the mason as that would be a stupid move.

To the rest of the town, ABR should NOT reveal the 3rd member of the mason and I ask of you to post and tell him to stay quiet. This is screaming of anti town and you know it ABR. Revealing information to the mafia? How is that helpful? Seriously man

[Ripley]

I feel confident that Papaya is our scum and am a little surprised my comments all of a sudden turned you on me.

As anyone not confused by looking at things through scummy eyes can plainly see,

if Papaya is scum ABR is scum as well

. You didn't get this right in your previous post and you haven't got it right now. You continue to refer to Papaya alone as scum, and then you say this:

To the rest of the town, ABR should NOT reveal the 3rd member of the mason and I ask of you to post and tell him to stay quiet.

If you are confident that Papaya is scum, you would also be confident that ABR was scum, and you would therefore know it's not possible for him to reveal a mason. This concern is all faked on your part.

[Albert B. Rampage]

GUYS GUYS! C'MON!

Forget about the alphabetical order, and let's get jiggy with it!

• Adel asks you to post an analysis on EVERY PLAYER except papaya.
  Albert just asks you to post an analysis on Adel and ryan.

WHO'S SIDE YOU ON ?!? SERIOUSSSLY!

Join my campaign! VOTE FOR ALBERT!!! (well, not literally)

*ryan smacks Albert back to his Machiavellian self*

Vote for Adel.

If you don't do what I ask, I will reveal the third member of the masonry within 72 hours.

Don't make me push the red button. 72 hours. Time is of the essence. The clock is ticking. Etc.

[theopor_COD]

theopor_COD: No it wouldn't make sense for two scum to claim they were masons BUT does it make sense for the 2nd mason to come out and claim and put TWO mason's in the limelight? Why is it so improbable to you that somebody could be lying?

If Papaya is

scum

, which for the record I don't think he is. Why on earth would Albert come out and back up his claim, if Albert was scum with Papaya, he would surely just stay quiet.

As far as Albert's claim, if Papaya isn't scum they are likely to realise he's a mason and hence can go back and look through the thread and ping the most likely mason partners. Fact is they aren't hard to point out, I could probably guess at the third mason this minute, I won't though. The masons have played poorly, showing their hand so soon - but as I say the scum wouldn't need to be Einstein to figure them out.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Theo, could you quote all of your analysis' on ryan and Adel so far in one handy post, and offer a concluding summary ? Your efforts would be much appreciated.

[theopor_COD]

I haven't analysed Adel yet. I'm not as convinced of him as scum, therefore I don't have a case as such on her and would prefer Ryan to face the noose today.

Ryan - quite simply my main case against him pre page 10 argument, was that he was following Adel and Lowell's lurker hunt. This lurker hunt has given scum an opportunity to fit into a pro-town way of thinking, an easy argument to attack people against, hence Ripley's stance against it which is similar to mine, gave me a good vibe. I'm not against flushing out lurkers but as I said it's not the only way to skin a fish and these three more than anyone were pretty much using it as a basis to attack anyone.

The other small case I had against Ryan was that I found he was appearing overly eager to fit in the quote I pointed out where he said, him posting was showing that he was 100% in favour of catching scum etc.

Altogether nothing too serious pre Papaya claim, so I attack him on page 10, everyone can read that argument and make up their own minds. I will say I felt Adel didn't really convince me either way on who's side she took. Since then the fact he seems to be attacking you and Papaya seems even odder - as I point out why on earth would you if Papaya wasn't a mason, imply your also a mason. I've read your posts in relation to Papaya's wagon and they make sense.

[Ripley]

Since then the fact he seems to be attacking you and Papaya seems even odder - as I point out why on earth would you if Papaya wasn't a mason, imply your also a mason.

I still think it's possible ryan's first instinct was "oh wow, we refused to believe Papaya and that worked perfectly, we've flushed out a second one, let's try and see if it works again for the third". Like theo I could take a good guess at the third mason myself, but I doubt very much whether ryan thought of that right away.

I'm not against flushing out lurkers but as I said it's not the only way to skin a fish and these three more than anyone were pretty much using it as a basis to attack anyone.

Precisely. The thing is, when you look at their posts the one who is really, really obsessed with lurker hunting is Adel. She just can't look beyond it. Even now, over and over again it's "I was hunting lurkers, so was ryan and Lowell, therefore everything we did was good, Albert was interfering therefore Albert is bad!" Everything is seen in black and white terms like that, and she is apparently unable to see that there are also other, more subtle and complex ways of hunting scum. The point I'm making is that I think it's easier to hide behind someone else's obsession than to fake an obsession, and that's another reason why I'm looking first at ryan, who may have been using Adel in this way.

I'll reread later, though.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Lmao, I would be

very

surprised if any of you guessed correctly. 71 hours left.

[Adel]

I follow your thinking theopor, but I think you are missing one important point: Albert is a little snot who is quite adept at getting other players pissed at him. ryan's mentioned this in passing, and for me it is also true: I'm unlikely to play in another game with him after this one. I really emotionally

want

Albert to be scum at this point. I know I had a little tit for tat with him earlier, for me that was just rhetoric, while he has real dedication for remaining uncivil. So it is hard for me to accept evidence clearing Albert. I want to hang him just as a meta-punishment for being a jerk, and if I was a vig there would be a non-zero chance of him dying tonight on general principles. I would apologize to Albert for engaging in name calling like this, but I believe that he cultivates it. Teen-aged boys.

So I feel sympathy for ryan, he has had to play with Albert before.

In hindsight Albert's posts in relation to A Papaya do make sense, but they totally didn't at the time. I was so sold on the A Papaya-Albert scum duo that I was practically cheering before A Papaya claimed. Then I was skeptical but I took my vote off, and then Albert claimed, and I still don't want to believe that it is true.

this is my read of ryan's posts up through A Papaya's claim:

0- random vote on Aimee
1- No Real Content (NRC)
2-NRC
3-NRC
4-asks general questions to get conversation going
5-unvotes Aimee because it was just a random vote
6-bandwagon theory chat with bird1111
7-asks everyone to post more
8-agrees with Adel that lurkers are bad
9-agrees with lowell that pressuring lurkers is a good thing. votes A Papaya (#1 vote on a papaya)
10-states that until until entire thread participates "it will be hard to find scum

and masons

." [ii]scumtell[/i]
11-asks Adel and Lawrencelot why they voted and unvoted theodor so quickly together.
12-accepts explanation for Adel and theodor's votes
13-agrees with Adel and is also waiting for A Papaya to follow up on his promise to post something on Saturday.
14- challenges A Papaya for just posting "Posting, um...nothing is happening right now?"
15-points out to A Papaya which post he promised to post in
16- NRC
17- disagrees with lowell on who is posting the least content
18- points out that in previous games people will suddenly start posting once they get a couple posts put on.
19- ponts out A Papaya posts don't contain content
20- points out that Ripley has not been posting either.
21- analysis of albert's post saying "I would like a Lowell claim by the end of the day. "as being anti-town
22- apologizes for thinking that there were power roles other than mason in this game
23- analysis of A Papaya: his content is worse than his lurking
24- more anti-papaya stuff
25- challenges Albert's "Not posting content is not scummy. Its anti-town. Being anti-town doesn't = scum." line.
26- Defends Lowell to Albert
27- Insults Albert
28- reprints Lowell's "I'm not thrilled about an a papaya claim. I feel like Papaya is an inexperienced player, and could potentially ruin some shit with a bad claim." and asks for clarification of what kind of claim Lowell was referring to. Points out Lawrencelot line as being evidence of being wishy-washy
29- Accepts Lawrence's explanation.

After A Papaya's claim, I was dealing with the fallout of losing a beloved theory, and I suspect that ryan was as well, in addition to the hostility that Albert draws out so well.

I sill hold my opinion of lurking and lurkers to be true. If one of the three of me ryan and Lowell are going to be scum, my money is on Lowell. He was smart enough to keep a low profile while ryan and I charged on like bulls in a china shop. Maybe he was smarter and realized that the evidence clearing Albert and A Papaya was overwhelming befoer ryan or I did, or...

I also don't like how we have 0 content from Aimee, and pretty much the only significant thing bird111 did was vote for A Papaya.

Good to see Ripley posting some more, even when I disagree. BTW, I was assuming that you are female, was I correct? Or does it matter?

I still think that at least one scum is hiding in the shadows, or is on vacation. Getting positions and alliances is essential information for later play.

[Adel]

darn, #10 should've read:

10-states that until entire thread participates "it will be hard to find scum and masons."

scumtell

the italics being my opinion of the post.

[Patrick]

Votecount

A Papaya (3) -- ryan, bird1111, Sir Tornado
Aimee (1) -- Lowell
ryan (2) -- theopor_COD, Ripley
Adel (1) -- Albert B. Rampage

Not Voting: Aimee, A Papaya, Lawrencelot, Adel
11 alive, 6 to lynch.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Behave yourself, darling. What is this, your second game ?

---

I'm preparing a big post. I withdraw the ultimatum. I will no longer threaten to reveal that person. I would rather nobody vote until we are at the end of our discussion to avoid quicklynching someone.

[Adel]

Don't call me darling again. ok? Thanks.

[Albert B. Rampage]

No. Unless you reveal your gender so we can be done with it.

[Adel]

Albert: if it isn't game related, please leave it out of the thread. If I wanted my gender to be a talking point I would have a little pink thing under my avatar. I consider your current behavior towards me to be harassment, and I am asking you to stop.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

I really hope you are enjoying this as much as I am Adel.

[Adel]

I still think it's possible ryan's first instinct was "oh wow, we refused to believe Papaya and that worked perfectly, we've flushed out a second one, let's try and see if it works again for the third".

If you take ryan at face value, he said that he didn't believe either, then the logic of
a. A Papaya is scum claiming mason, who I don't believe
b. Albert is co-claiming mason, which I don;t believe either
c. If someone else co-claims then we will have all three scum out in the open.
is at least consistent. Wrong, but consistent.

I hate admitting that I'm wrong; I'm old; I am actively looking for ways to clear ryan. Those are facts. So is that there is a real chance that ryan is town, and other candidates we haven't looked at are scum.

[Adel]

Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

I really hope you are enjoying this as much as I am Adel.

I'm not. I am trying to make this clear.

[Patrick]

Ok guys, I know it can heated but lets keep is strictly mafia related. Thanks.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Ok guys, I know it can heated but lets keep is strictly mafia related. Thanks.

Yes, let's.

I was just referring to this:

I really hope you are enjoying this as much as I am Albert. I don't want to be looked at like I'm the type of person who plays tackle football with 7 year olds.

Didn't mean to disrespect.

Back to the point, I would like everyone to read the first few pages between the first post made by Lawrencelot and the post where Ripley and I jumped on Lowell.

[Albert B. Rampage]

EBWOP

I would also like everyone to keep in mind my hypothesis of the relationship between Lowell, Adel and ryan, and formulate their opinions on the possible links between these 3. I find the first pages a bit strange with the premises that each are vanilla townies, but when I think of them as a group that had the ability to chit-chat during the confirmation stage, much like us masons, it makes much more sense. The defending of each other, the establishment of arguments that couple themselves perfectly to form a conclusion that would lead to a detrimental plan for the town and the number of times they support each other blatantly or indirectly is overwhelming.

[Adel]

Chasing players out of lurking is not a "detrimental plan for the town".

Unless A Papaya is a mason. Then it is. Sorry about that. Otherwise, it is perfectly good plan, and one I would like to go back to. Once our three vacationers get back, I really want to pressure them to catch up on content (even Lowell!).

[Albert B. Rampage]

Chasing lurkers is the perfect way for scum to blend in with the town while going after hapless power roles.

[theopor_COD]

Ok if we're assuming Papaya and Albert are town, which I am, then after a re-read I could probably advocate a lynch of Adel, Lowell or Ryan. Ripley I like, the other mason I think I know, the other players are inactive - the continued lurker garbage from Adel just strikes me as looking for another target to lynch. I'll post my thoughts on Adel's posts when I've finished it, currently about a third of the way through.