Open 570: Making Friends and Enemies (Mafia Wins!)

[Shinobi]

The reason it doesn't swing all the way to town for me is that scum could make the same point that Shinobi did in order to cast doubts on the townpeople on the NPAU wagon to deflect suspicion from a buddy.

Do you see town motivation in Shinobi's posts, esp. the latest ones where he started stabbing at me?

You're joking, right?

You should move your vote onto him.

Instead of keeping it on a useless wagon that will never happen, like Sonic's.

Pedit: Fucking lol. Kill this dude.

[uctriton00]

My case on shinobi: he took my saying and applied it against me. I said, you either lynch scum, or if you're wrong or if the wagon feels bad, you go to the wagon and find the bullshit vote.

Shinobi says "you're the bullshit vote".

I ask him "why am I it". His reasoning:
1. I don't have to explain anything to you
2. good morning, vote him
3. Fucking lol

-----

There is nothing of substance in that case. No analysis, no evidence of a theory, no logical thought progression. I called him out saying it's likely a reaction test, but he denies it's not, implying that there's a reason behind it.

I think you lied about having a case, just to make a vote on me, and now you're trying to rally votes (at least you tried recruiting GM), to possibly "blame" them for it later on. In fact you'd love to lunch me as town, then you'd analyze my wagon saying you'll try to pay homage to me by attacking someone on the wagon, and you'd get another mislynch probably.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is why I think Shinobi is scum. He lied about having a case, and is trying to randomly get people on it without substance.

[uctriton00]

And unlike Shinobi, I'm taking any and all questions, I'm here with full game attention now.

[Shinobi]

That's because I never actually posted my case.

Are you fucking dense.

[uctriton00]

Plus Mala you've been weary of me lately, this is a great chance to read me or investigate me

[uctriton00]

That's because I never actually posted my case.

Are you fucking dense.

Shinobi you implied you didn't want to answer the question or post your case, you said you're not required to answer.

Please do post your case then, sorry to cut you off.

[uctriton00]

And f you too as well, seeing as you want to curse liberally

[Shinobi]

I told you I wasn't going to post it because I wanted to ask you questions to hopefully make it stronger or weaker. And then you said you weren't going to answer my questions because I haven't posted my case.

So then you made a case on me not posting my case because you weren't answering my questions. Then you said you were answering questions.

Do you or do you not see the issue with how dumb this conversation is.

Pedit: cursing is fun. You know it to be true.

[uctriton00]

My gf is getting annoyed at me ignoring her, brb in 30 minutes

[uctriton00]

roommate is babbling right now
should have stayed in my car on my phone
sorry give me 10 more min

[uctriton00]

Here is where my genuine annoyedness came from; I spent the whole day thinking that Shinobi had a reason for voting me (other than being a reaction test). I'm like, well maybe he's scumhunting. But Shinobi responded saying it's not a reaction test (meaning he has a case on me).

I was trying to see your town motivation in not just outright saying what your case was. Yet you BOAST that "i'm gonna get people to vote you" and even start rallying goodmorning to put votes on me, even when you haven't said anything.

You then said "I don't have to explain anything to you". That's even more annoying, I just want to hear your case. I'm keeping the thought in my back pocket that you are scum trying to hide your thoughts. One scum strategy is to manipulate what someone says and twist it (I did it in Mini 1365, sorry I'm too lazy to link it, just meta it from me) when you don't have an organic case against someone.

When have I ever said "I will not answer any of your questions that you ask me, Shinobi?"

[uctriton00]

Sorry it was Mini 1315: Theatre Mafia
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Basically I began picking on people with no cases or follow ups (was on Psyche and Smudger for a bit) and tried to basically mud them. Kinda hard to get just by reading an ISO but it was definitely my thought process as scum
1. Put a vote on someone
2. Get reactions from them
3. Run those reactions through mud
4. Make a case based on #3

[Huntress]

Thanks meta'ing because I actually find this interesting.

Can you do me a favor and read this post. It's from a recent finished newbie of his (he was town there).

I just find it interesting that Corrino actually called him out on it and he never did answer it or if he did it wasn't quoted. I find it both odd and amusing all at the same time.

<<

Either way it's prob not relevant and I'm also misreading it

He seems to be doing , as town, there what he was calling MS scummy for here. He does say that he had put himself in the open, doing things that he wouldn't normally do to push the game forward, so it's odd that he was attacking MS here for what looks to me like similar behaviour. I don't think it's actually a scumtell for him though.

I'd like to know in particular what Huntress thinks of Mala at present.

It hasn't changed since my last but one post.

@ Josh:

Am I right in thinking that your current scum reads are NPAU, Heph, MS, Mala and possibly Zeb/Dave?


Now I'm going to see if I can work out what's what between Shinobi and uctriton.

[Malakittens]

I seriously don't know what to do with Shin v Uct. I don't know why he also added my name in the mix. <_<

[Scripten]

I seriously don't know what to do with Shin v Uct.

Two notes. I find it strange that uct already moved his vote onto Shinobi. I would like to eventually hear Shinobi's case as well.

From this interaction, I'm feeling like at least one of the two is town.

[Shinobi]

Here's my current problem with you: I could have a case, or I could have no case, and you simply have no way of knowing the difference without me straight up telling you what my case is or isn't. You can't draw a conclusion based on what I might or might not say if I haven't said anything to begin with. It looks like you're just flipping the fuck out because someone is attacking you and immediately accusing them of having "no town thought process." I don't have to "run your reactions through mud" because they look nonsensical with or without my input. Here's our current sequence of events:

1) I called you scummy because of reasons that I haven't yet disclosed.
2) You flipped out and said I have no town motivation for anything.
3) I asked you a question, and you still haven't answered it because I haven't posted my case.
4) You made a case which I've already debunked.
5) You came up with more reasons to vote me because of things that

you

did in another game.

You're making it impossible for me to get a good read on you because I really can't tell where you're coming from. You can't call someone scum and come up with reasoning

afterwards

because that doesn't make sense.

As for your proposed scumteam, I've already come out with reasons as to why I would vote NPAU. Why is it that you think that I'm his scumpartner if I already said I'm totally willing to vote him?

Alternatively, if I'm not scum, who is and why?

[Shinobi]

I seriously don't know what to do with Shin v Uct.

Two notes. I find it strange that uct already moved his vote onto Shinobi. I would like to eventually hear Shinobi's case as well.

From this interaction, I'm feeling like at least one of the two is town.

Why?

To the second part, that is.

[Scripten]

I seriously don't know what to do with Shin v Uct.

Two notes. I find it strange that uct already moved his vote onto Shinobi. I would like to eventually hear Shinobi's case as well.

From this interaction, I'm feeling like at least one of the two is town.

Why?

To the second part, that is.

Just not reading the interaction as something I'd see between two scum players. One of you may be scum, or both of you may be town. Just my read, tho. YMMV.

[Shinobi]

Fair enough, I suppose.

[Shinobi]

Btw, I already posted most of my case in posts #732 and #733. I'm surprised everybody overlooked what I said.

[goodmorning]

In seriousness, there's something I really don't get here. When I get poked by people, my first reaction is "OK, explain, let's talk." It's not to instantly say "there's no Town motivation in this."

There's plenty of Town motivation in trying to figure out the game. So why panic-discredit?

[Scripten]

Btw, I already posted most of my case in posts #732 and #733. I'm surprised everybody overlooked what I said.

Can you explain more of why (732) is relevant to uct being scum? I don't think I'm following.

(733) doesn't really follow from uct's (730). You're putting emphasis on the wrong part of his post. You're saying that he's enticing people to join the wagon by him stating that, if NPAU flips scum, then two players already on the wagon are town. I wholeheartedly disagree with this. In fact, I'd go so far to say that it is not out of the question to see scum jumping on their partner's wagon if that lynch looks likely.

That said, uct's reaction did not feel right.

[Shinobi]

The issue isn't "was NPAU getting bussed or not" because that kind of question is a rabbit hole of wifom at this point of the game.

The issue is that uct's reasoning completely falls apart if NPAU is town. In theory, town lynches are all illogical because lynching town inherently makes no sense. Uct's reasoning for his scumread boils down to "it sets people up to be town" which is nothing more than convenience for the sake of convenience.

Furthermore, who sits down and says "my two scumreads are totally willing to vote each other" and thinks that that makes total sense?

In seriousness, there's something I really don't get here. When I get poked by people, my first reaction is "OK, explain, let's talk." It's not to instantly say "there's no Town motivation in this."

There's plenty of Town motivation in trying to figure out the game. So why panic-discredit?

Even if my reasoning wasn't spectacular, and I still think it is, I feel like we got a ton of mileage out of my accusation.

[Scripten]

The issue is that uct's reasoning completely falls apart if NPAU is town. In theory, town lynches are all illogical because lynching town inherently makes no sense. Uct's reasoning for his scumread boils down to "it sets people up to be town" which is nothing more than convenience for the sake of convenience.

That post was about associative reads based on NPAU, not about making a case on NPAU, unless I'm totally off-base here.

[Shinobi]

His reasoning for voting NPAU is "it sets people up to be town." Alternatively, you can check his #673 for more reasons (NPAU put someone at L-1) which is not a reason to kill someone.

He basically determined his ideal lynch off of someone putting another player at L-1 and then created a reality based around that person being scum. This is exactly what it looks like to me.

It's doesn't matter if you think that he made a case or not. His reasoning is bad.