Mafia 64: The New "C9" - Game over!

[Jack]

Albert is scummy, but I would prefer a yogurt or guardian lynch.

[Glork]

*grumblefume*

I would suggest at least starting by glancing over the thread (you don't have to read it in the exlpicit detail that I did... yet...) and trying to figure out where

your personal suspicions lie

. State those suspicions, explain them as best as you can, and put your vote on the suspicion which stands out the most.

Unvote, Vote: Shteven
IGMEOY: Albert

[Glork]

EBWOP: Directed at Albert, obv.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Okay sorry about the last line in the last post. The truth is I was really looking forward to playing with JDodge and SpectrumVoid, but alas I am stuck with the likes of BM and you. And so I'm bored. But I don't want to ask for a replacement because I honestly think this game will pick up soon. But for that to happen, there has to be action and drama. Hence the bandwagonning, hence the pressure, hence the claiming, etc.

I'm trying to stir up the pot. If you are too terrible a player to understand that your actions have no effect on me, Glork, then by all means, try convincing everyone to bandwagon me.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Argh, double-post.

[Glork]

My biggest problem is, Albert, that the "pot-stirring" which you have managed to do is this: You got me noticing that all you're doing is bandwagoning relentlessly, which I know is a horrible strategy for the town. I tried to tell you that earlier (when you followed me to HJ even though you said you wanted to pressure Johhan), but you're still doing it. Thus, I decided that you were distinctly possibly scum, and a bad player either way.

My other problem is that I'm noticing a lot of players who seem to be doing what they want, even if they know it is (or looks) scummy. BM, you, TCS, even Guardian to an extent. It makes it very hard to discern whether you people are actually scum, or whether you're just intentionally playing poorly. With BM and TCS, I've seen things which make me shy away from wanting to lynch them. With you and Guardian, I hadn't -- so I was assuming that A) There's a good chance you're scum; and B) If not, your loss wouldn't be that huge a deal anyway.

This discussion has mildly calmed my concerns about you. I still think you are scummy, but the fact that you've pleaded your case and seem to be willing to help more actively is a small point in your favor. I'm still keeping my eye on you, and I still expect you to set your own path first and foremost. Wagons and lynches will come. Perhaps you're just getting too impatient.

Jack:

As I pointed out in my re-read, after YB was connected to Guardian by other players, Guardian made a very clear and distinct defense of YB in stating that he found YB to be pro-town. Do you think that Guardian would knowingly and intentionally do this at that point in time if both of them were scum?

[YogurtBandit]

Argh, double-post.

Uh, What? *did not see second post*

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I still find Guardian to be reasonably scummy, and TCS is annoying me beacuse he's spamming and deliberately behaving stupidly, when he complained about BM's behavior earlier.

TCS, in all seriousness, I'd like you to explain in extensive detail why you have chosen to behave this way. Failure to explain yourself or an insufficient/spammy explanation will result in deeper interrogation. I don't know why you've decided to do this, but you're certainly not proving any point; nor are you accomplishing anything other than pissing other people off. Stop it.

I thought it would get a good reaction from the players in this game, because I was having trouble reading them. I got what I wanted. I'm in complete agreement with Jack--I'm comfortable with either a Yogurt, Albert, or Guardian lynch today. I still have bad feelings about Albert from earlier, plus his most recent blunder. I don't like how Yogurt and Guardian reacted to my posting. Based upon those reactions I would say Guardian and Yogurt are more probably anti-town. Anyone could have told you that I was deliberately not giving my reasons for the lynch. Reacting as they did is significant.

And perhaps reacting as you did is. I didn't realize you were so touchy, Glork. Are you just angry at me for my recent posting on this site in general? If so, don't let it affect your gameplay. If you're town, doubly so, because irrational outbursts of anger aren't for the good of the town. Everyone needs you at your best.

Entertaining the possibility that you are scum, your attitude makes me think that you're overreaching on handing out false town tells. For example, under different circumstances I might think that your emotional protests about my gameplay would equal vanilla townie or investigative power role trying to direct the tone of debate. But as you put it, it comes off looking a little suspicious.

IGMEOY.

And it's just a game... if I can get over BM acting deliberately scummy in every game, you can get over me doing it in one.

[Albert B. Rampage]

EBWOP

Damn, why do I always finish my posts with some attack ? Didn't even notice that until a re-read. Sorry Glork.

And that post was directed at Glork obv.

Also I meant double-post as in I didn't see any posts after my own when I submitted.

---

Glork, I don't want to waste your time, but can you explain why my bandwagonning is so harmful besides the fact that its difficult to read my play for mafia hunters ?

[Jack]

Jack: As I pointed out in my re-read, after YB was connected to Guardian by other players, Guardian made a very clear and distinct defense of YB in stating that he found YB to be pro-town. Do you think that Guardian would knowingly and intentionally do this at that point in time if both of them were scum?

They don't have to be scum together.

I haven't reread, but I don't see why he couldn't do it as scum. Rather wifom.

[Glork]

See above, TCS. I am frustrated with the fact that

MULTIPLE players

insist on behaving deliberately scummy. If one, *maybe* two players were fishing for reactions by doing something unorthodox, that'd be fine. But the fact that several players are doing whatever the heck they want is making it extraordinarily difficult for me to figure out which ones (if any) among them are scum.

I see scummy play, I go after scummy play. I see deliberately scummy play, I go after it harder. I see deliberately scummy play from like four different people, I get angry.

So there you have it. Glork's attitude towards this game in a nutshell.

[YogurtBandit]

Jack: As I pointed out in my re-read, after YB was connected to Guardian by other players, Guardian made a very clear and distinct defense of YB in stating that he found YB to be pro-town. Do you think that Guardian would knowingly and intentionally do this at that point in time if both of them were scum?

They don't have to be scum together.

I haven't reread, but I don't see why he couldn't do it as scum. Rather wifom.

Which one of us?

[Jack]

I'm with Glork on this. I was scum in hell on earth (similar size/players) and it was wicked easy to semi-lurk and let the town lynch the bad townies. On that note I'm going to check and see who's lurking, then get to that reread which I think I need now.

[Glork]

Hm. Valid point, Jack. For some reason, I defaulted to you saying they were scum together.



Albert: Bandwagoning in and of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. But there are two things which I can point to that make it a bad thing in your case.
1) You have, on multiple occasions, expressed a preference to bandwagon than to just hunt scum on your own. Taking down the people you think are *MOST* likely to be scum should be your top priority as town 99% of the time. Note that I've moved my vote back to Shteven even though I'm still debating with you. It's because

I personally think he is more likely to be scum than you

.
2) You have said in your most recent bandwagon that you are just fishing for a claim. Suppose Guardian were the town's only Doctor, and you forced a claim because you felt like it. He gets killed, our other power roles are left unprotected, and we find ourselves in a world of hurt. Claiming is a last resort for a player who is otherwise going to be lynched by a bandwagon of players who think that they are scummy and need to die. It is not a tool by which you make a game more interesting to yourself. Your behavior here shows that you don't care about the well-being of the town. Players who do not care about the well-being of the town are more likely to be scum.

Also, I find it amusing/ironic that you insinuated that I'm "terrible." Clearly, that mafia-hunting award shows that I have no idea what I'm talking about.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

@ Glork and Jack: Are you arguing that we move into full lurker-lynching mode?

[Glork]

I didn't say that at all. I'm arguing that we move into "play the game normally and stop having nearly a quarter of the town intentionally play like crap" mode.

[YogurtBandit]

I don't like how Yogurt and Guardian reacted to my posting. Based upon those reactions I would say Guardian and Yogurt are more probably anti-town. Anyone could have told you that I was deliberately not giving my reasons for the lynch. Reacting as they did is significant.

WHAT?

Are you kidding me? Even if the guardian one was scummy, you had done it before. Oh yeah. You did with Albert. You said that Alberts bandwagon needed more voters. Wether or not you are delberilty scummy or not, and im sorry for taking a line from you, but

I CANT STOMACH THAT PLAY!

That is the phrase that has made you a complete hypocrite because you said the

Exact

same thing to Bm about his play. I cant belive you are saying we are scum because we voted you. Looks more like Wifom. But seriously. You are going off the edge, and you are driving me off the edge. You are playing like a dirty little scum hypocrite that suspects pepole that vote him. Its just not the play that any of the town needs, as we need to find scum.

But you continue to act like scum then say oh just joking, I want to make so and so look very suspicous for suspect me as scum"

We need to find scum, not jokers. I mean, if there was a jester in this game, I would be 100% you would be the jester. Your On and off play sickens me and then blaming pepole for noticing it is even worse.

Confirm Vote: TCS, The Central Scrutinizer.

[/b]

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I don't like how Yogurt and Guardian reacted to my posting. Based upon those reactions I would say Guardian and Yogurt are more probably anti-town. Anyone could have told you that I was deliberately not giving my reasons for the lynch. Reacting as they did is significant.

WHAT?

Are you kidding me? Even if the guardian one was scummy, you had done it before. Oh yeah. You did with Albert. You said that Alberts bandwagon needed more voters. Wether or not you are delberilty scummy or not, and im sorry for taking a line from you, but

I CANT STOMACH THAT PLAY!

That is the phrase that has made you a complete hypocrite because you said the

Exact

same thing to Bm about his play. I cant belive you are saying we are scum because we voted you. Looks more like Wifom. But seriously. You are going off the edge, and you are driving me off the edge. You are playing like a dirty little scum hypocrite that suspects pepole that vote him. Its just not the play that any of the town needs, as we need to find scum.

But you continue to act like scum then say oh just joking, I want to make so and so look very suspicous for suspect me as scum"

We need to find scum, not jokers. I mean, if there was a jester in this game, I would be 100% you would be the jester. Your On and off play sickens me and then blaming pepole for noticing it is even worse.

Confirm Vote: TCS, The Central Scrutinizer.

[/b]

Hold your horses. Let's get academic. Is it automatically scummy to

not

reveal your reasons for voting someone?

[Yosarian2]

Albert: The point is that the town does not want pro-town people to claim. The more power roles get outed, the easier it is for the scum to win. So if you're pressuring someone to claim, and you don't actually think they're scummy, you're hurting the town and helping the scum, which obv. makes you look more suspicious.

[Jack]

I don't think HackerHuck is posting enough. johhan needs to post more. BT had an excuse, said he would post wednesday, hasn't. ~n9v~ def lurking, I might remember him lurking as town, he needs to post more.

[YogurtBandit]

I don't like how Yogurt and Guardian reacted to my posting. Based upon those reactions I would say Guardian and Yogurt are more probably anti-town. Anyone could have told you that I was deliberately not giving my reasons for the lynch. Reacting as they did is significant.

WHAT?

Are you kidding me? Even if the guardian one was scummy, you had done it before. Oh yeah. You did with Albert. You said that Alberts bandwagon needed more voters. Wether or not you are delberilty scummy or not, and im sorry for taking a line from you, but

I CANT STOMACH THAT PLAY!

That is the phrase that has made you a complete hypocrite because you said the

Exact

same thing to Bm about his play. I cant belive you are saying we are scum because we voted you. Looks more like Wifom. But seriously. You are going off the edge, and you are driving me off the edge. You are playing like a dirty little scum hypocrite that suspects pepole that vote him. Its just not the play that any of the town needs, as we need to find scum.

But you continue to act like scum then say oh just joking, I want to make so and so look very suspicous for suspect me as scum"

We need to find scum, not jokers. I mean, if there was a jester in this game, I would be 100% you would be the jester. Your On and off play sickens me and then blaming pepole for noticing it is even worse.

Confirm Vote: TCS, The Central Scrutinizer.

[/b]

Hold your horses. Let's get academic. Is it automatically scummy to

not

reveal your reasons for voting someone?

No, but you've encouraged pepole multiple times to put more votes on "X's" Bandwagon, Which I find is looking for a quick and easy lynch, so you can get back to night and kill off whomever you please.

[YogurtBandit]

I don't think HackerHuck is posting enough. johhan needs to post more. BT had an excuse, said he would post wednesday, hasn't. ~n9v~ def lurking, I might remember him lurking as town, he needs to post more.

I think N9V is being replaced as we speak.

[Jack]

@tcs: I just want them to post more. HH and BT probably will without any wagon if we just ask them too. Don't know about the others.

@yogurt: how many times have you confirmed vote TCS so far? Seriously.

I forgot about shteven.

unvote

pending reread.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Also, I find it amusing/ironic that you insinuated that I'm "terrible." Clearly, that mafia-hunting award shows that I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Clearly.

But Glork, why would who I think is scummy matter, when there are more experienced players who can more easily find the scum ?

[AutumnEvenings]

You not being able to read me is a good thing for me whatever my alignment is. You are suspicious of me enough that I likely won't get NK'd but are not suspicious of me enough so that I will get lynched today. I used to think it was in everyone's best interests to look really, really pro-town all the time... but MeMe has begun to convince me otherwise in another thread. So go ahead, and not be able to read me. That's great for my team (the town).

I strongly, strongly disagree, but this thread has seen enough playstyle arguments. Suffice to say that

someone

(or, in this game, some two) will most likely get nightkilled every night. In the meantime, I balance people's arguments with how much I trust them. And I suspect people I can't read. But I'm glad to know you're being purposefully confusing and unhelpful.

vote: Guardian

. Better safe than sorry.

AE seems a little insincere compared with last game. Like she's trying to copy her style but isn't quite succesful. Will wait and see on this one.

Or this could be explained by the fact that this game has 18 people, as opposed to 7, and I'm a bit lost. Your behavior seems slightly different (which is good, as you were scum :p), but Johhan's seems

very

different. I don't quite know what to make of it, as he was town last time...but we (I was largely responsible) did lynch him for his behavior so...I don't know. I've got quite an eye on him.

Jack is correct, I often act scummy on purpose.

Ugh, not another one. With all the scummy-acting and scummy playstyles, how on earth are we supposed to find the actual scum?

FoS: TCS

, because he might be one of them.

Love at Yos for post 454.

The point of acting scummy as townie is to make your next games as mafia easier. TCS got lynched as scum twice with this behavior, I think it's possible he is trying to set a precedent, so I don't regard his behavior as indicating anything about his alignment.

That's horrible! I was putting it down to selfish gameplay (wanting to survive as long as possible), but to use another game as town to set up a next win as mafia? That's not pro-town behavior. I hope your explanaition is incorrect, because...jesus, that's intentionally going against your own faction for personal gain.

I wasn't acting scummy so people [couldn't] get a read on me. I wanted to see who was most interested in shifting the wagon to me.

*sigh* Can I FoS people twice? The whole "I wanted to see the reactions" bit is getting very old. Plus you rarely find anything useful anyway, and you've wasted your own political capital (or "trust capital") so it makes the argument harder to swallow. Plus scum say this all the damn time. (*points to her recently finished newbie, and Jack :p*)

One last thought - TCS, NK speculation being scummy or no, If I were the SK, I almost certainly would have axed Glork. Like it or not, that's just true. I am more afraid that people will become convinced I am a mafia member, which I am also not.

That's not nightkill spec, that's WIFOM. (And besides, who wouldn't kill Glork? )

Unvote, vote Guardian

Just to put pressure and get a claim.

Oh lord, and here I was, half-way defending you. (Well, more pointing out that you were acting like half the damn town but were the only one gathering a lynch mob, but still). (1)Why vote someone for "pressure" when they judt said they'd be gone? (2) What good would a claim do? Either we lynch him or we don't. Forcing him to claim early just for curiousity or whatever is absurd. Bad, bad, bad, and scummy to boot.

FoS: Albert

.

I posted too quick. I think Snitchkin (whatever his name is) is scummiest, but between Guardian and TCS, I trust TCS more. Guardian doesn't appeal to me as a day1 lynch, but I still want a claim to see what happens.

And it just gets worse.

unvote: Guardian, vote: Albert B. Rampage

.

Gah. Glork, what is it about you?! I honestly do

not

understand why BM and now Albert making posts that...well, whatever...why these posts change your mind. Please, please explain to be.

I see scummy play, I go after scummy play. I see deliberately scummy play, I go after it harder. I see deliberately scummy play from like four different people, I get angry.

Quoted for fucking truth.

*goes to figure out the vote-count*