Mafia 64: The New "C9" - Game over!

[YogurtBandit]

I think TCS is just being deliberately scummy, it seems like something he'd do. Doesn't mean he isn't actually scum.

Jack is correct, I often act scummy on purpose.

OK, so

first

, you propose a metagame lynch on BattleMage because you are incredibly frustrated about how he acts unreadable, and

second

, you say that,

just like BattleMage

, you act deliberately scummy so that people can't get a read on you. This is more than a little scummy hypocrisy.

HOS: TCS

.

I still get a town vibe from YB. I always get a town vibe from him though. Unless he replaces obvscum. Yeah. .

Jack and Tcs could have staged those two posts too...

[Jack]

Last time I saw TCS do that it was as scum in the Clue mafia games. But it also seems like something he'd do as town and I also find the people attacking him to be far scummier.

Guardian, what do you think about YB's backtracking?

[YogurtBandit]

Last time I saw TCS do that it was as scum in the Clue mafia games. But it also seems like something he'd do as town and I also find the people attacking him to be far scummier.

Guardian, what do you think about YB's backtracking?

yeah, but Metagaming is'nt the best thing to go by. You find us scummy that we have evidence against TCS and are attacking him for it? I could say you are scummy for voting me, but that wouldnt be true. Perhaps you are trying to defend TCS for some reason. Because I dont see what is wrong with attacking evidence.

[Guardian]

Jack, I will respond to this quickly, though I don't want to at this point do a re-read of the posts.

From what you've quoted, he apparently did backtrack. He said he was going to do it randomly, then selected TCS first for specific reasons.

Two points though (wow, I realize I always make two points. Never three. Never one. Always two points. ):
1)Is backtracking a scumtell? It would appear that is would be, I'm guessing.

2)I am kind of inclined to believe that his is a problem of diction and not a problem of necessarily being scum. A few years ago, I used to say I would pick something randomly, and then pick whatever I had the best reason to pick. "I will pick out some random movie and we can watch it." This does not mean that I am going to in fact, role a die, and pick a random movie. This means that I am going to pick a movie among those available, using whatever criteria I want to use, and then we shall watch that movie.

That being said, he then tried to defend that he was doing MBL's randomly. That goes against what I thought he meant when he did a "random" pbpa of TCS.

So, Jack, I think the backtracking is indeed scummy. Despite my "feeling" about YB, that is a point against him in my book.

I want YB to fully explain his actions here.

[Yosarian2]

Anyone else notice a contradiction here?

You not being able to read me is a good thing for me whatever my alignment is. You are suspicious of me enough that I likely won't get NK'd but are not suspicious of me enough so that I will get lynched today. I used to think it was in everyone's best interests to look really, really pro-town all the time... but MeMe has begun to convince me otherwise in another thread. So go ahead, and not be able to read me. That's great for my team (the town).

OK, so first, you propose a metagame lynch on BattleMage because you are incredibly frustrated about how he acts unreadable, and second, you say that, just like BattleMage, you act deliberately scummy so that people can't get a read on you. This is more than a little scummy hypocrisy.

First, he tries to say "Oh, it's good that you can't tell if I'm town or not, because that way I don't get night killed". Then in his very next post, he attacks Tcs for what apperas to be basically following that exact same logic.

I hate that logic, by the way. If you're town, then it's in the best interests of the town for the town to be able to tell you're town. "If I look scummy then I won't get nightkilled" is terrible, terrible logic; unless a pro-town role gets lucky, or unless the town gets really lucky and the mafia kills the SK, the mafia will kill one pro-town person every day. Period. If you're town, intentionally trying to look scummy and/or be unreadable so you don't get nightkilled dosn't help the town if it just means that some other pro-town player gets killed. If you look scummy and you don't get nightkilled that just lowers the odds of the town lynching sucessfully later on because you're still alive and people still remember you looking scummy.

I also don't like the way Guardian's just stating for a fact that he's not going to get lynched, dispite the fact he been the biggest wagon and that many people are suspicious of him.

I'm not really sure what to think about Guardian in general; some of his play might just be because he's played a lot more scumchat then forum mafia, which encourages a kind of fast-and-loose play, but even taking that into account he's still done several things that look like legitimate scumtells.

[YogurtBandit]

Jack, I will respond to this quickly, though I don't want to at this point do a re-read of the posts.

From what you've quoted, he apparently did backtrack. He said he was going to do it randomly, then selected TCS first for specific reasons.

Two points though (wow, I realize I always make two points. Never three. Never one. Always two points. ):
1)Is backtracking a scumtell? It would appear that is would be, I'm guessing.

2)I am kind of inclined to believe that his is a problem of diction and not a problem of necessarily being scum. A few years ago, I used to say I would pick something randomly, and then pick whatever I had the best reason to pick. "I will pick out some random movie and we can watch it." This does not mean that I am going to in fact, role a die, and pick a random movie. This means that I am going to pick a movie among those available, using whatever criteria I want to use, and then we shall watch that movie.

That being said, he then tried to defend that he was doing MBL's randomly. That goes against what I thought he meant when he did a "random" pbpa of TCS.

So, Jack, I think the backtracking is indeed scummy. Despite my "feeling" about YB, that is a point against him in my book.

I want YB to fully explain his actions here.

Well, the movie thing is basically what I did there.I just went down the list, and chose a name, and that name was MBL. Hoever, Idont find Pbpa's scummy. If this backtracking is diffrent than just my pbpa, tell me, but my Pbpa is not scummy in any way.Guardian, bac on page 9 I belive, you posted a pbpa,. I mean, me talking about TCS and the reason why I had voted me is a complete legit post. I cant find a sprinkle of scum in it. Yeah, I might have said Im doing it on random pepole, but as I brought up before, Its like the movie thing. I pick, I dont choose a number 1-18 and pbpa which ever number I choose, I just look at the list and say " Oh, maybe I should do a pbpa on Him/her" and then start writing about them. Jack, If you could explain what makes it soo scummy, that would be really nice, because quite frankly, I do not.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yosarian2 makes a good point, I'd like to see his defense on that.

[Jack]

I just look at the list and say " Oh, maybe I should do a pbpa on Him/her" and then start writing about them. Jack, If you could explain what makes it soo scummy, that would be really nice, because quite frankly, I do not.

You said it was random, and then you said it was for a specific reason, and now you are saying it was random again. You are changing your story under scrutiny.

[Jack]

The point of acting scummy as townie is to make your next games as mafia easier. TCS got lynched as scum twice with this behavior, I think it's possible he is trying to set a precedent, so I don't regard his behavior as indicating anything about his alignment.

[YogurtBandit]

I just look at the list and say " Oh, maybe I should do a pbpa on Him/her" and then start writing about them.

Jack, If you could explain what makes it soo scummy, that would be really nice, because quite frankly, I do not.

You said it was random, and then you said it was for a specific reason, and now you are saying it was random again. You are changing your story under scrutiny.

The bold explains it all. Its random, yet the way I chose it happened to be TCS, then I noted that he was who I had voted. So techninially, It is randomly chosen, even if Ididnt pick a numbe rout of a hat.

[YogurtBandit]

The point of acting scummy as townie is to make your next games as mafia easier. TCS got lynched as scum twice with this behavior, I think it's possible he is trying to set a precedent, so I don't regard his behavior as indicating anything about his alignment.

So basically you think Tcs is scum, even though he got lynched like this and its supposed to make this easier?

[Guardian]

I didn't ask for, or suggest, a metagame lynch on BM for acting unreadable. His trying to be unreadable is fine with me up to the point where he sacrifices logic for being unreadable. I was/am suspicious of him because I thought he was acting

scummy

. TCS

did

suggest a metagame lynch on BM for acting unreadable, then went off and decided to act unreadable.

Anyone else see how I followed TCS in going for Schteven, and then TCS started trying to make a wagon on me? Ie, if I get lynched and I show up town, he could be "oh, he just followed me, nice."

Putting my vote where my mouth is:

unvote vote: TCS

.

[Glork]

Guardian, you seem to be missing Yos's point.

You say that it is good for you to be unreadable to other people. You then go after TCS for deliberately acting scummy -- a play which, if he is town, serves to make him unreadable.

That's called hypocrisy.

[Guardian]

Oh. Noting that, my case on TCS is scummy as hell. Great. So, in sum, we are both hypocrites .

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I wasn't acting scummy so people would get a read on me. I wanted to see who was most interested in shifting the wagon to me.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

EBWOP *so people couldn't get a read on me

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I'm calling Guardian as SK. Anyone else feeling this?

[YogurtBandit]

I'm calling Guardian as SK. Anyone else feeling this?

[sarcasm]Loving the sudden jump on Guardian for no reason [/sarcasm]

[Guardian]

YB, to be honest, my logic was hypocritical and scummy as hell. :[. I need to take a step back from this game, I will think and post later tonight.

[Guardian]

One last thought - TCS, NK speculation being scummy or no, If I were the SK, I almost certainly would have axed Glork. Like it or not, that's just true. I am more afraid that people will become convinced I am a mafia member, which I am also not.

[YogurtBandit]

YB, to be honest, my logic was hypocritical and scummy as hell. :[. I need to take a step back from this game, I will think and post later tonight.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I'm calling Guardian as SK. Anyone else feeling this?

[sarcasm]Loving the sudden jump on Guardian for no reason [/sarcasm]

And yet he has so neatly justified what was little more than a vote based on gut feeling and uneasiness about a couple of saying-everything-but-saying-nothing posts. Sometimes not stating your reasons gives people the opportunity to dig a little bit deeper into the OMGUS.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

And now he's given up. Speedlynch plz kthx

[Guardian]

I'm not going to say it wasn't; it was. I didn't realize that at the time I was making my arguments. Way to say I am just giving up, that's BS.

[YogurtBandit]

And now he's given up. Speedlynch plz kthx

Ugh, I cant take that whole speedlynch plz thing... Its just peculiar. Not because Its guardian... Tcs, You keep asking for votes on others... Its just, Peculiar....