Open 570: Making Friends and Enemies (Mafia Wins!)

[beastcharizard]

Vote Count

Goodmorning: ucitron00, BlueBloodedToffee, hephaestus, nopointinactingup
davesaz: Huntress
hephaestus: Peabody, Josh_B
Metal Sonic: Goodmorning
nopointinactingup: Scripten, Metal Sonic

Not voting: davesaz, shinobi, Malakittens
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-10-04 20:45:00)


That was totally me posting from my hydra on accident. JSYK

[Metal Sonic]

jesus ms stop.

also im getting cold feet on a gm lynch surprisingly.

going to UNVOTE: gm

going to get my ducks in a row and then sort something out in my head and then present it to the jury.

See you after work

Yea cold feet

[Shinobi]

This game gets my fullest attention tomorrow.

Why did NPAU put GM to L-1? His vote moves around so much for such faulty reasons. Ugh.

[Peabody]

Oh geez. I'm way behind. Ummmmmm, sorry to keep doing this. I'll try to keep up with the thread more.

Sooo, I'll post tomorrow.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hi Mala,

Reads-list please.

Dave, in 473 you left out quite a few people from your reads-list. Was there a reason for this?

Have you developed a read on any of the players you left out or have any of your previous reads changed?

@BBT: Time, and maybe. Need to go to work, more complete answer later.

In this upcoming complete answer, can you also tell me why you chose those people to post your reads on.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@MS & Mala

- Which one of 637, 639 and 640 made you suddenly feel like GM wasn't scum anymore?

MS, you have been pushing for a GM lynch pretty much all day, it's within your grasp, and you unvote? What is that about? Did somebody say earlier that GM/MS was a possible scum-team? I could see that.

Mala was second on the wagon as well and then she suddenly jumps off with no explanation. A bus gone wrong?

@GM

- What do you make of MS and Mala's actions?

[Malakittens]

It was more due to the fast wagon and how it got to L-1. I didn't like it personally. So either GM is scum and her partners are bussing her awfully fast or she's town.

Plus the main reason is I want something to happen that hasn't happened yet which will influence a read on players or not. I want to hear people's thoughts and want that to happen rather than a hammer at the moment.

[goodmorning]

Look, I have a life outside of mafia.

There are 6 people on my wagon and I only have townreads on 2 of them. uct is null and the rest look like scum to me.

When half the people on your wagon look like Scum, it makes you feel real good about yourself.

SO you don't see anything wrong with concluding there's 3 scum on your wagon? That's a lazy read to me and it proves that you're not trying to find out who scum is, meaning you're scum.

Yeahhhhhhh you're being ridiculous.

I had scumreads on you and Sonic long before my wagon, and my scumread on hephaestus is mainly based on him being 100% useless.

It's not "they're on my wagon, therefore Scum." It's "they're Scum, and, interestingly, they're on my wagon."

[Josh_B]

Let's all lynch Hephestus. I feel pretty good about that right now.

[Scripten]

Let's all lynch Hephestus. I feel pretty good about that right now.

I want to agree with this. Heph is, at the very least, a liability to town later on. His lack of effort/contributions would be dangerous when we get down to the brass tacks.

That said, policy lynches based on playstyle suck because they're so likely to hit town. Lynching scum D1 would be nice for once.

[Scripten]

Case on NPAU

Jumpy vote hopping (All of his votes so far have apparently been serious, as per (105)): (33) (105) (224) (320) (439)

Finds MS unlikely to be scum, (224) but, despite MS's playstyle not changing, he considers him scum by (521). Yet, he barely pushes at MS, which is a marked change from his other accusations. I also did not notice him voting MS. Considering how much his votes have jumped around, this is inconsistent, especially when he jumps onto GM in (634). After all, if he was changing his playstyle because it made him look scummy, he should have stopped vote-hopping by that time. (If he was town, stopping scummy behavior would have made sense. Even if it cast suspicion on him, it would ultimately make the game clearer for the town. Scum thrive in confusion.)

There's some scummy wording and opportunistic attacks in those posts, too.

I also find it interesting just how fast the NPAU wagon broke up and how fast the GM wagon grew at the same time. I'll go back and see where votes changed from one wagon to the other and check if my thoughts match up.

[davesaz]

Dave, in 473 you left out quite a few people from your reads-list. Was there a reason for this?

Have you developed a read on any of the players you left out or have any of your previous reads changed?

@BBT: Time, and maybe. Need to go to work, more complete answer later.

In this upcoming complete answer, can you also tell me why you chose those people to post your reads on.

I don't think answering these will help much with the scum hunt, but I do believe in being polite and helpful so I'll answer anyway. I don't tend to do a complete spectrum read all at once. I start with people I know, ones who are posting a lot, and ones who are posting but not being useful. The ones I know because it's easier to start from the familiar, the ones who are posting a lot because they tend to either be scum or valuable town assets (before someone jumps to conclusions I mean good scum hunters, not power roles here), and the ones who are posting but not being useful because they're usually either scum flying under the radar or people who are disappointed to be VT.

The answer for whether reads are changed or not can best be found by looking at my subsequent posts.

[uctriton00]

Case on NPAU

Jumpy vote hopping (All of his votes so far have apparently been serious, as per (105)): (33) (105) (224) (320) (439)

Finds MS unlikely to be scum, (224) but, despite MS's playstyle not changing, he considers him scum by (521). Yet, he barely pushes at MS, which is a marked change from his other accusations. I also did not notice him voting MS. Considering how much his votes have jumped around, this is inconsistent, especially when he jumps onto GM in (634). After all, if he was changing his playstyle because it made him look scummy, he should have stopped vote-hopping by that time. (If he was town, stopping scummy behavior would have made sense. Even if it cast suspicion on him, it would ultimately make the game clearer for the town. Scum thrive in confusion.)

There's some scummy wording and opportunistic attacks in those posts, too.

I also find it interesting just how fast the NPAU wagon broke up and how fast the GM wagon grew at the same time. I'll go back and see where votes changed from one wagon to the other and check if my thoughts match up.

This is a good enough post to make Scripten town if NPAU was lynched and flipped scum today.

[hephaestus]

EFFORT IS NOT AND HAS NEVER BEEN INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT

my scumread on hephaestus is mainly based on him being 100% useless.

You're a funny gal

[davesaz]

EFFORT IS NOT AND HAS NEVER BEEN INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT

my scumread on hephaestus is mainly based on him being 100% useless.

You're a funny gal

That is a good contradiction you pointed out.

But this does not mitigate the fact you're not doing anything useful. Just these two lines are not enough to condemn gm, nor are they enough to clear you. You gave a couple of scum reads but gave no reasons for them. And that does not help us lynch anyone. I've been bothered by this all along, and have tried to be patient, but it's not looking good for you. There are a lot more reasons for scum to play this way than town.

[davesaz]

Case on NPAU

Jumpy vote hopping (All of his votes so far have apparently been serious, as per (105)): (33) (105) (224) (320) (439)

Finds MS unlikely to be scum, (224) but, despite MS's playstyle not changing, he considers him scum by (521). Yet, he barely pushes at MS, which is a marked change from his other accusations. I also did not notice him voting MS. Considering how much his votes have jumped around, this is inconsistent, especially when he jumps onto GM in (634). After all, if he was changing his playstyle because it made him look scummy, he should have stopped vote-hopping by that time. (If he was town, stopping scummy behavior would have made sense. Even if it cast suspicion on him, it would ultimately make the game clearer for the town. Scum thrive in confusion.)

There's some scummy wording and opportunistic attacks in those posts, too.

I also find it interesting just how fast the NPAU wagon broke up and how fast the GM wagon grew at the same time. I'll go back and see where votes changed from one wagon to the other and check if my thoughts match up.

This is a good enough post to make Scripten town if NPAU was lynched and flipped scum today.

The way you say this indicates you'd have a different read if things turned out differently?
Does the post itself have any alignment indicator for you? I see things but would be interested to see if others agree.

[davesaz]

Let's all lynch Hephestus. I feel pretty good about that right now.

Any update to this thought given his post for today? Any bets on when we can expect another?

[davesaz]

This game gets my fullest attention tomorrow.

Why did NPAU put GM to L-1? His vote moves around so much for such faulty reasons. Ugh.

Yeah, there is that and there is also how the wagon rolled back.

Oh geez. I'm way behind. Ummmmmm, sorry to keep doing this. I'll try to keep up with the thread more.

Sooo, I'll post tomorrow.

Looking forward to it. I was seeing interesting stuff from you and then it stopped before there was enough to make a decision.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It was more due to the fast wagon and how it got to L-1. I didn't like it personally. So either GM is scum and her partners are bussing her awfully fast or she's town.

If she's town, who were the scum on the wagon?

I don't tend to do a complete spectrum read all at once. I start with people I know, ones who are posting a lot, and ones who are posting but not being useful. The ones I know because it's easier to start from the familiar, the ones who are posting a lot because they tend to either be scum or valuable town assets (before someone jumps to conclusions I mean good scum hunters, not power roles here), and the ones who are posting but not being useful because they're usually either scum flying under the radar or people who are disappointed to be VT.

The answer for whether reads are changed or not can best be found by looking at my subsequent posts.

Hmm, you replied the first time simply with you didn't have the time to do a read for everyone. Now, you come out with all of this?

Can I have a full reads-list please Dave.

@GM

- Can you answer my outstanding question to you please.

[Josh_B]

Let's all lynch Hephestus. I feel pretty good about that right now.

Any update to this thought given his post for today? Any bets on when we can expect another?

I have no idea. But what I do know is that this my third attempt to start a wagon. and I'm seriously questioning myself. Mala's short stint on a real wagon that almost went through has me questioning why I think she's town. Plus the fact that it was also her and MS that defended Zebulin earlier. I'm half tempted to vote NPAU in hopes that there has been bussing.

[Huntress]

@ davesaz:

Hi! Why did you comment on 466 before NPAU had had a chance to answer it?

Because I saw something questionable and wanted to investigate it in the flow vs. trying to remember to investigate it later.

When I saw your post it looked to me like you were helping NPAU out by suggesting an answer to the question Shinobi asked him. If I had been in Shinobi's position there I would have been peeved and a bit suspicious that you intervened as it might have affected the read I would have been trying to get on NPAU. The question you raised could have been asked without referring to the post at all. But Shinobi doesn't appear bothered about it which makes me wonder why.

why the lack of confidence be from playing outside of the newbie queue for the first time? Why does it automatically default him to being scum?

It doesn't. My point there was that I thought he

could

express himself better, so the fact that he couldn't back up some of his comments wasn't due to his being new.

@ NPAU:

You seem to have missed the question I asked you in post 499.

Vote: NPAU

oh, I might be okay with a goodmorning lynch. She's posting elsewhere is somewhat of a scum tell for her~

I checked that out and apart from a couple of one-liners her only posts during that time were mod posts, which would of course have priority if she had limited access, so I don't see that as a scum tell in this case.

[Malakittens]

Yeah I realized that after the fact. Why in addition to the speed I'm getting cold feet.

[uctriton00]

Of the 4 on it, as of the previous VC, the only one that stands out to me is NPAU

[uctriton00]

i am "vi" reading hephaestus and am town reading BBT, I don't think they're the scum.

NPAU put it on L-1, and that's a gut shot bet that scum can get away with that. (There's no science to prove that D1 L-1 is a scum spot, although someone like Wake can try to calculate that out for us one day, cause I'd be interested in that stat as well).

And I'm town too so yeah, this is a fine counterwagon.

Vote: NPAU

[uctriton00]

Question NPAU; what do you think of what was the goodmorning wagon?