Open 21 - Friends and Enemies (Game Over), before 453

[ryan]

theopor_COD: Please inform me on what I've done to get on your scumdar? I never said that just posting was enough to show you are pro town but I've been doing my best to keep conversation going and talk about different players including the lynch lurkers or don't lynch lurkers squabble we continue to have. If I was blending in I'd be posting one line sentences just to look like I was around instead of engaging in conversations/discussions. I'm a little surprised that one post out of me would put me on par with Papaya who has already shown by these posts that he’s anti town.

Adel I'll claim at 6 votes, if that's what you want.

Posting, um...nothing is happening right now?

Please explain how he's been “pro town?”

[theopor_COD]

theopor_COD: Please inform me on what I've done to get on your scumdar?

Everyone starts on my scumdar, no-one is innocent. Get defensive much? I haven't even got my vote on you.

I never said that just posting was enough to show you are pro town

No but you pretty much imply it . . .

I figured with the frequency of my posts that would show

I'm 100% on board with catching scum

I'm a little surprised that one post out of me would put me on par with Papaya who has already shown by these posts that he’s anti town. .

I already stated I found you suspicious prior to the Papaya wagon, it's not just one post, go back some 7 or so pages to my original post. I feel your overtly trying to follow people not catch scum as such, following the lurker wagons etc.

Posting 3/4 lines whatever . . . scum trying to blend in as town will post as much as most people. See Tornado's post on page 8 - it doesn't mean him posting that amount that he's town nor that someone who posts one-liners is scum.

Adel I'll claim at 6 votes, if that's what you want.

Posting, um...nothing is happening right now?

Please explain how he's been “pro town?”

Where did I say Papaya was "pro-town" nice misreprensation there. I don't like the way's he's been playing not once have I stated he's been pro-town. However I'd prefer my vote on you than him at present.

vote Ryan

[A Papaya]

I'm claiming.

I'm a mason. My fellow masons can prove it true.

[Adel]

Either you are lying or you just made the dumbest move possible.

unvote

until this gets sorted out.

[A Papaya]

I'd rather make the dumbest move ever than get lynched, sorry.

[Patrick]

Votecount

Lowell (2) -- Ripley, Albert B. Rampage
A Papaya (3) -- ryan, bird1111, Sir Tornado
Aimee (1) -- Lowell
ryan (1) -- theopor_COD

Not Voting: Aimee, A Papaya, Lawrencelot, Adel
11 alive, 6 to lynch.

[Adel]

Hmm. If you are a mason A Papaya, please place a vote on whom you believe is most likely to be scum. I think that would help us evaluate your claim with out the other masons having to out themselves if you are telling the truth.

[theopor_COD]

The timing of the claim is idiotic at best, however for now I see no reason not to believe it. If he's lying then the real masons will out him . . . I see no need for them to come forward and clear him if he's telling the truth.

If he's a townie claiming mason then that is quite possibly the stupidiest move in history - If he's scum claiming mason then that is quite possibly as stupid. Let's move on.

I'm more than happy with my vote on Ryan with the latest development.

[theopor_COD]

I'd also agree with Adel. I'd like Papaya to vent his suspicions and start attacking people he thinks are scum - if he's a mason then he's got a much smaller range of targets, so lets have some thoughts Papaya pls.

[Adel]

If he's lying then the real masons will out him

I don't think they will. At least I hope not. I think in this game it is essential for the masons to hide from the mafia.

[ryan]

FoS theopor_COD

How on earth can you call the timing of a claim idiotic at best but still believe it? You point the finger at me for "following lurker wagons" on a non poster (please look back and tell me that Papaya was doing so much for the town) And why would you want the masons to speak on him anyway? The masons are suppose to stay silent and not let the scum know who they are. Or am I misrepresenting you again? Looking awfully scummy right now my friend

[theopor_COD]

Well if Papaya's a mason then he's not done a very good job of hiding

[theopor_COD]

FoS theopor_COD

How on earth can you call the timing of a claim idiotic at best but still believe it? You point the finger at me for "following lurker wagons" on a non poster (please look back and tell me that Papaya was doing so much for the town) And why would you want the masons to speak on him anyway? The masons are suppose to stay silent and not let the scum know who they are. Or am I misrepresenting you again? Looking awfully scummy right now my friend

The claim is idiotic - Papaya had 4 votes - 6 to lynch. If he's outed himself its idiotic. For now however I believe it, why is that so difficult for you to comprehend? Idiotic and believeable does work my friend.

I've not pointed the finger at you for following lurker wagons alone . . . I've made other points, I think your scummy for appearing eager to blend in mainly. I've not once called Papaya "pro-town" as you imply from his earlier behaviour, I made this point in my previous post against you, it still holds. Point out where exactly I said Papaya was pro-town pls.

As for the masons speaking out on Papaya - well I guess it's up to them. I don't want the masons to speak out if Papaya is telling the truth - which I think he is. I do however like the way you've turned your argument into a bout of OMGUS really against me. I'm scummy why exactly? Because I suspect you?

[ryan]

Your a smartass plain and simple theopor_COD. You can't seem to have a discussion in a "game" without turning it into your supreme intelligence against others. I find you suspicious and NOT an OMGUS (your term not mine speaking of misrepresenting) because of facts. Papaya has admitted to lurking and you find NO problem with it, lurking is anti town, period. He hasn't posted any content BUT when he gets close to getting lynched and claims mason you immediately have no problem with it. You are not playing with the town in mind right now instead it's turning into this big "let me show you how smart I am and how you do not understand my intelligent posts" You want to talk about blending in? How about "quick to defend somebody" you have no idea if he's telling the truth or not and nor do I, but my claim that he still could be scummy doesn't seem to hold any water with you.

[theopor_COD]

Your a smartass plain and simple theopor_COD.You can't seem to have a discussion in a "game" without turning it into your supreme intelligence against others.

Man what are you 12? I have no beef with you personally, I just think your most likely to be mafia, this argument has nothing to do with being smart, plus I don't actually think compared to some people about that I'm that intelligent, I don't have a degree etc.

Papaya has admitted to lurking and you find NO problem with it, lurking is anti town, period. He hasn't posted any content BUT when he gets close to getting lynched and claims mason you immediately have no problem with it. You are not playing with the town in mind right now instead it's turning into this big "let me show you how smart I am and how you do not understand my intelligent posts" You want to talk about blending in? How about "quick to defend somebody" you have no idea if he's telling the truth or not and nor do I, but my claim that he still could be scummy doesn't seem to hold any water with you.

Quotes please Ryan where do I say specifically I have "NO" problem with lurkers. I'm not keen on everyone going headstrong towards lynching lurkers no, but pre-claim I found Papaya scummy. Until otherwise I'll believe his claim yep. I'm not trying to smart but your sure are acting like a bit of a crybaby with all this crap about me being intelligent and the like, because someone thinks you may be a mafia man. Chill out yeh.

[ryan]

I have no problem with people suspecting me, it's half the fun of the game is trying to prove why you aren't guilty but blatant stuff like not posting is anti town and you still don't seem to get that

[theopor_COD]

I'd agree not posting isn't helpful but it's not the only way to skin a fish. As I've said before this so called lurker hunt has given scum good a base to join an attack at townies etc. Scum are aware that lurking isn't a good strategy - therefore I'd be surprised if all three are lurking.

Arguments are all part of the game . . . as I say I have no problem with you on a personal level, just currently your top of my scum suspect pile.

[Adel]

That was just a little OMGUS'y ryan, you are being defensive.

theopor_COD: now that you've pressured ryan into dropping a couple of scumtells, where do you want to go from here? Looking through his post history, I don't see anything really alarming.

9- He was the first to vote for A Papaya, following Lowell's lead in voting for a lurker
14- gives papaya a reminder
15- ditto
19- provides a gentle anti-papaya case following broken promise to post by papaya, and content free post by papaya
20- expands anti-papaya case
21-28 argues why pressuring lurkers is good for town
29- the line where you quoted from

Papaya promised content than basically thumbed his nose at us by not commenting, I found that to be extremely anti-town and also scummy. That is why I placed my vote on him. As for putting myself in the spotlight, I guess I figured with the frequency of my posts that would show I'm 100% on board with catching scum and figured I was posting enough thoughts to show that.

I think he was talking about content, and you seem to undersatnd that he was just talking about word count.

The rest of his votes seem more bewildered than defensive, like he was blindsided by being place under suspicion.

I like that ryan is part of the posse chasing lurkers out of the shadows. I see a couple poorly chosen words, and a defensive tone when attacked, but no real red flags. I would like to see him post more insightful words, but I don't see any of his actions as being anti-town so far.

ryan: you know how our problem with A Papaya was that he wasn't posting, and then he only posted content free drivel? You are starting to look like scum for the opposite reason, you are too emotional and reactive to a modest accusation. Where was this energy when you were hunting scum? We would all be better off if you would spend your energy on scum hunting, just like theopor_COD is.

[Adel]

The rest of his

votes

posts

seem to be more bewildered than defensive, like he was blindsided by being placed under suspicion.

effing typos

[ryan]

Listen guys, if you really think A Papaya is who he says he is, I have no problem going back through and looking around to find somebody else. I just have a strong suspicion that claim was out of desperation (after he admitted to "not wanting to be lynched") The post content (not count) has been awful and to me (especially after the hasty claim) it was a no brainer he was scum. I'll re-read and see if anyone else turns up scummier, I have no problem doing that. I had no problem being voted as a possible scum as I said earlier, that is half the fun, defending yourself but I felt the tone of the messages was done to make me feel stupid and that pissed me off.

[theopor_COD]

theopor_COD: now that you've pressured ryan into dropping a couple of scumtells, where do you want to go from here? .

Early suspicions are just that - early suspicions, if you don't attack someone for little things you don't learn anything. My main basis for the Ryan suspicion was I thought he was following people slightly and seemed eager to blend in - nothing major by any great shakes, but worthwhile casting a small jab at. The fact that you point out that Ryan is part of the posse chasing lurkers out - just gives the scum an opportunity to join this hunt, do you Adel or Ryan think scum are just as likely to attack lurkers? You know scum love to pick on a lurker they know is town. Let's just say Ryan's reaction to the little argument was interesting it does at least give the lurkers and the like something else to comment on along with the Papaya claim. I will say in his defence he didn't go into his shell and dissapear.

Ryan I apologise if you felt I was taking the piss as such, I didn't intend to. So sorry if you felt I was.

As regards the claim, I don't really know the best way to test it.

[Adel]

The fact that you point out that Ryan is part of the posse chasing lurkers out - just gives the scum an opportunity to join this hunt, do you Adel or Ryan think scum are just as likely to attack lurkers? You know scum love to pick on a lurker they know is town.

Sorry, he was part of the

active[/] posse along with me and Lowell. The same Lowell that has two votes. It is very possible that a scum or two will join in in chasing lurkers, but I believe that there is a greater chance of a lurker being scum than a chaser being scum. I would think that a scum among the chasers would act more like you or Bird11 than ryan though.

Getting a reaction like that out of ryan is great. I hope we get more reactions like that.

I wonder how many people will claim mason before the day is over.

[ryan]

The problem I have with lurkers is this, they bog down the game, start problems like this, and are anti town by not helping us. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if I was just in a "semi disagreement" with a townie. I mean two townies going after eachother in a thread isn't uncommon and with both wanting to find scum they end up going after eachother which is another reason I said I'd re-read and make sure nobody jumped out scummier than Papaya. For now........

UnFoS: theopor_COD

I think we had a couple of pro townies get a little too heated while looking for scum.

[Adel]

We could start going through the list. This gives lurkers a great chance to jump in and post some insightful content. We have 10 pages to go off of.

The case against A Papaya is pretty clear, as is his claim. I suggest we skip him, but I am still waiting for him to tell us who he thinks is most likely scum, and vote for someone.

Is there a case for me being scum? Lets hear it if there is.

After everyone has had a chance to brainstorm a case against me, we can move on to the next person in alphabetical order: Aimee, then Albert, ect...

[ryan]

I like your idea Adel, I’m going to change it a “little” bit. I’m going to go back through and quote the posts that are a little strange and maybe we can build from there?

If I were a mason OR scum, I'd probably be lurking right now. Just something to think about.

I'm here, but I've been very busy. I'm going to be busy today too, but I'll read this thread and post sometime tomorrow or saturday.

Sorry, you know. It's just life.

Posting, um...nothing is happening right now?

Unvote

; way past time to have a random vote on.

Thought this was curious that it took him 4 pages to unvote his random

unvote, vote Sir Tornado

My day 1 policy, vote for whoever has gone the longest w/o posting. Tornado, post and my vote leaves.

FOS A Papaya

... were my policy to vote for the person with the least CONTENT, this would be a vote.


Seriously, this is how I'm going to play. We need to be able to draw connections on D1. I very firmly believe this is more essential than other games.

Lowell makes a good point to get people to vote BUT sayin this is his policy on how he votes isn’t entirely true as I’ve played games with him before where this never was the case. It could be a new strategy but I’m not sold on that

Ok, ok, I'm here.

On the chart: At this point in the game, I don't think we can get much information out of it.

I failed miserably at content because I really didn't see anything worth commenting on. I still don't...I will when we get to the intelligent stage of the game.

In other news,

Unvote

.

Page 5 to finally unvote his random?

If the content of Lowell's posting only consists of playing an automated vote, call that a scum tell. For purposes of vote analysis maybe look at his FoS instead of his vote. My vote, as I said before, is also automated. I know that my last FoS was a mirror of Lowell's automated vote, so I'll make sure my next FoS is based upon something more insightful that lack of posting.

Call it what you want. The point is, we need players to post. And for now, I don't even really care if those posts are mostly placeholders. People who continue to post placeholders and say nothing will get attacked on those grounds anyway (see: a papaya). In a game like this, I'm more concerned with players who disappear altogether.

Again I say: anyone who thinks lurking doesn't work as a scum tactic is kidding her/himself. It always works. Always has, always will.

But not this time. Vote stands.

Not sure why he wants to give away hints about lurking

Wow, that was very to the point, Ripley.

I would like a Lowell claim by the end of the day.

Unvote Adel, vote Lowell

Seems VERY early to have Lowell claim

Wow, that was very to the point, Ripley.

I would like a Lowell claim by the end of the day.

Unvote Adel, vote Lowell

Haha this I like to see.

I don't claim that I've been particularly useful thusfar. I only said I feel like policing the thread. Don't worry, there will be time for both, calm down.

He admits to not being useful thusfar? WHAT?

Lowell's behavior is the exact opposite of other games in which he has been townie. Also, Lowell is not a particularly crafty player to think of WIFOM tactics. I think Lowell would be the best bandwagon to start the day off with.

Pretty bold to try the “Bandwagon Lowell” tactic

What a load of logical fallacies.

I think Albert B. Rampage needs to reread the last line of mine he quoted. What was I trying to say with that? Does it support your conclusion? Isn't reading comprehension a prerequisite for good play?

You are attacking my person by saying I can't read. And what I have quoted supports my conclusion one hundred percent. You are clearly giving support to lynching lurkers.

The person I was referring to has over a thousand posts. That means nothing.

I want to lynch someone who proposes a system that facilitates the mafia's job.

Talk about a VAGUE post. Why not just say who you are talking about instead of all these “hinting” around games?

The 3 posts Lowell made are set-up in a way that would finish in the conclusion which you have posted. Papaya might or might not be scum, and not posting content is anti-town, but who knows what he might be thinking ? Lack of content is not scummy, its just plain anti-town. Promoting a system that would facilitate a scum victory is scummy.

Very wishy/washy. Could be, could be not. Not very assertive, almost afraid to commit to an idea

A player who wants to let scum win needs to be lynched. With your 3rd quote Adel, are you agreeing with me that the person I mentioned is Lowell or are you misquoting ?

You made the comment clearly referring to Lowell, the subject of your bandwagon. No misquote, I listed the post numbers to assist people in fact checking.

So, who is the third member of your scum group with A Papaya?

Too bad I have a town read on you, it makes you look that much stupider. I wasn't "clearly" referring to anyone. You assumed I was referring to Lowell, so I take it you assume that lynching lurkers is good for the town ?

What is this “Rush Hour 1?” You assume I cant speak English

Nice try, scum.

I'm done with this. It isn't doing the town any good to continue. Our cases are out there for the other players to read and judge. Going on with this conversation this long makes both of us look petty, and I'm moving on. I feel like I've exposed you, so it has been worth it.

Stop appealing to emotion. Insulting me isn't doing anything at all. Did you even read my post?

Adel don't do this. I'm town, and if I get lynched and the rest of the town finds that out, you'll seem like scum. Which you probably are.

Finally a semi content post from him, not a good one but semi…….

Adel I'll claim at 6 votes, if that's what you want.

If he was looking for humor he should have posted more earlier

bird1111: Sorry that I didn't, I just didn't find much to comment on. I mean others said that I should of, but I honestly didn't.

8 pages of stuff and he has NOTHING to say? Can you say lurk?

Is A Papaya at lynch -1 or -2 now? I don't like this bandwagon at all. However, with so many people on it, that probably means the town wants him dead. Adel, are you that certain of papaya being scum that you want to risk being lynched next day? I don't know if you can still do anything about it, but I won't blame you if you unvote. If you keep your vote on him, I might vote A papaya too but if he is town I will vote you next day.

Another wishy washy post that gives him an out if he votes incorrectly