Open 21 - Friends and Enemies (Game Over), before 453

[Albert B. Rampage]

Adel, in your diagram, I don't see the difference between unvoted votes and existing votes. Could you clarify that ?

It would be a good idea to show which player protected which too, since we have had a couple of those.

Tornado, could you clarify your ideas on ryan ? Why did you say you were leaning on his scummy side ?

[Lawrencelot]

Is A Papaya at lynch -1 or -2 now? I don't like this bandwagon at all. However, with so many people on it, that probably means the town wants him dead. Adel, are you that certain of papaya being scum that you want to risk being lynched next day? I don't know if you can still do anything about it, but I won't blame you if you unvote. If you keep your vote on him, I might vote A papaya too but if he is town I will vote you next day.

[Albert B. Rampage]

-1, 6 to lynch.

[Lowell]

unvote

. Thanks Tornado, good analysis.

vote Aimee

. Next on the list.


This lynch (a papaya) is bad bad bad bad. Let the poor kid defend himself. Just sayin'. More coming.

[Patrick]

Votecount

Lowell (2) -- Ripley, Albert B. Rampage
A Papaya (5) -- ryan, Adel, theopor_COD, bird1111, Sir Tornado
Aimee (1) -- Lowell

Not Voting: Aimee, A Papaya, Lawrencelot
11 alive, 6 to lynch.

[Lowell]

Some quick thoughts.

1) It is not acceptable to lynch A Papaya yet. It just isn't. For what it's worth, I tend to agree with the lynchers, but I'm definately not adding my vote yet.
2) I'm buying

Albert and Adel

as town. Albert's most recent post of questions is right on the money, and I'd like the same answers.
3)

FOS Lawrence

. The last post (201) really rubs me the wrong way. Looks very much like a set-up to blame someone else for a mislynch. If A Papaya turns up town, this is where I'll go first.
4) I'm not thrilled about an a papaya claim. I feel like Papaya is an inexperienced player, and could potentially ruin some shit with a bad claim.

[ryan]

Some quick thoughts.

1) It is not acceptable to lynch A Papaya yet. It just isn't. For what it's worth, I tend to agree with the lynchers, but I'm definately not adding my vote yet.
2) I'm buying

Albert and Adel

as town. Albert's most recent post of questions is right on the money, and I'd like the same answers.
3)

FOS Lawrence

. The last post (201) really rubs me the wrong way. Looks very much like a set-up to blame someone else for a mislynch. If A Papaya turns up town, this is where I'll go first.
4) I'm not thrilled about an a papaya claim.

I feel like Papaya is an inexperienced player, and could potentially ruin some shit with a bad claim

.

I have no problems giving him a chance to speak his mind Lowell, but you seemed awfully worried about a claim from him, possibly a scum mate? Please explain what he could ruin if he "claims.” I will agree with you on the Lawrence post though, Lawrence saying that if Papaya is town and gets lynched he is immediately going after Adel doesn’t make a lot of sense to me especially after he said

that probably means the town wants him dead.

It’s almost as if he’s fishing for justification to jump on Papaya BUT also giving himself an out if he’s a townie, can’t say I like that reasoning.

[Sir Tornado]

Tornado, could you clarify your ideas on ryan ? Why did you say you were leaning on his scummy side ?

It's more of a gut feeling rather than anything concrete. The thing is, that right now, there seem to be a few people who are going on an all out attack on lurkers (Adel, Lowell) and there seem to be a few people bent upon defending the lurkers

to some extent

(yourself, Bird and Ripley).

Ryan seems to be all out against lurking, but is trying to not put himself in too much spotlight like Adel is. Not really sure if that is scummy or not, but that seemed a bit strange to me... but that's not something that can nail anyone as scum, but I just got some bad vibes from it. But, not enough for a vote or even a FOS. (well, call it a

nail of suspicion

)

[Lowell]

ryan, if I were a scummate, I would WANT him to claim.

Here's my take on claiming:

1) IF A PAPAYA is SCUM-
(a) he claims MASON. A mason emerges to call him out. We kill a scum, we lose a mason.

net PLUS for the town

(b) he claims TOWN. Tries to argue his way out. Probably can't. We kill scum and masons remain hidden.

HUGE PLUS for the town

2) IF A PAPAYA is MASON- he claims mason. No counterclaims. We kill someone else but lose a mason at night.

BIG LOSS for the town

3) IF A PAPAYA is TOWN-
(a) he claims town and tries to argue his way out. Mabye can't. We lynch him.

NET Loss for the town

(b) he panics, claims MASON. Mason emerges to counter. We lynch Papaya, then lose mason at night

GAME-BREAKING Loss for town

On further reveiw, a papaya claim might help. With this caviat.

A Papaya, if you're a regular townie DO NOT CLAIM MASON

. It won't save you, and will be a crushing blow.

[Lawrencelot]

<snip>I will agree with you on the Lawrence post though, Lawrence saying that if Papaya is town and gets lynched he is immediately going after Adel doesn’t make a lot of sense to me especially after he said

that probably means the town wants him dead.

It’s almost as if he’s fishing for justification to jump on Papaya BUT also giving himself an out if he’s a townie, can’t say I like that reasoning.

Huh? How can you say I want to jump on Papaya, I am one of the few who defends A Papaya (together with Lowell, and maybe more). It's true that you could see it as a contradiction, so I'll clarify: it probably means the town wants him dead, but I do NOT agree with this, so if he turns out to be town Adel is suspicious to me. I don't want to lynch A Papaya, I don't know where you read that. I defended Papaya most of this day, although I certainly don't like his style of play and not posting content.

PS: I don't want Papaya to claim.

[ryan]

To Clarify Lawrence. It read to me as though if the town wanted him lynched, you'd do it BUT if you did and he was town you'd go after Adel the next day, to me that sounded like "well if he's mafia I look good but if he's a townie, I have a reason to hit up Adel" I thought it was wishy/washy and basically saved your butt either way you voted. Thank you for clarifying that you do not want him lynched, and although I disagree and believe him scum, at least you took a stance.

Sir Tornado: I do have a problem with lurkers and definetly don't appreciate them BUT lynching a lurker could put the rest of us townies at risk especially if the lurker towns out to be a townie who's just not posting. Papaya promised content than basically thumbed his nose at us by not commenting, I found that to be extremely anti-town and also scummy. That is why I placed my vote on him. As for putting myself in the spotlight, I guess I figured with the frequency of my posts that would show I'm 100% on board with catching scum and figured I was posting enough thoughts to show that.

[Sir Tornado]

Sir Tornado: I do have a problem with lurkers and definetly don't appreciate them BUT lynching a lurker could put the rest of us townies at risk especially if the lurker towns out to be a townie who's just not posting. Papaya promised content than basically thumbed his nose at us by not commenting, I found that to be extremely anti-town and also scummy. That is why I placed my vote on him. As for putting myself in the spotlight, I guess I figured with the frequency of my posts that would show I'm 100% on board with catching scum and figured I was posting enough thoughts to show that.

Ok... but that leads me to another question which anyone can try to answer really...

If A Papaya were scum, why would he do something so blatantly scummy?

This has really vexed me...

[ryan]

I've seen people "fake claim" in games and who knows what causes people to do what they do. Maybe he hasn't played enough games to know what to do as a certain role.

[Lowell]

I've seen people "fake claim" in games and who knows what causes people to do what they do. Maybe he hasn't played enough games to know what to do as a certain role.

Hence the advice. Seriously, a papaya, if you claim mason and turn out to be town, I'm gonna pummel you.






.... well, you know. Rhetorically.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Ok... but that leads me to another question which anyone can try to answer really...

If A Papaya were scum, why would he do something so blatantly scummy?

This has really vexed me...

Inexperience would be the obvious answer.

[theopor_COD]

unvote

. Thanks Tornado, good analysis.

vote Aimee

. Next on the list.


This lynch (a papaya) is bad bad bad bad. Let the poor kid defend himself. Just sayin'. More coming.

Firstly I've missed some pages so

unvote

- until I've re-read.

Secondly Aimee's already stated she'll be away so I don't like that vote one bit, especially when below you add the wagon on Papaya is bad as he cannot defend himself.

fos Lowell

More later.

[Adel]

I don't like a vote on a vacationing player. It is like not voting, but with a name.
I don't like a player vacationing at the very beginning of a game, esp this game.
I don't like how Ripley and Albert have not really considered A Papaya as scum in thread, but have not defended him either.
I don't like how Lawrencelot is using me for cover to aviod responsibility in his voting decision.

I really don't like that A Papaya is doing nothing for his defense.

I do like that the hammer didn't fall just yet. It looks like Lowell or Lawrencelot are the only two who are possibly willing to cast the #6: take all the time you need guys.

I like that I stand a really good chance of being the NK. I will take that as a compliment for being good at my job. If I die tonight: I think A Papaya's scum buddies are Ripley and Albert, possibly Aimee.... of course one of his mated could be bussing him... but those players are where I would first look for the next scum.

[Lawrencelot]

How many times do I have to say it... I do NOT want to vote A Papaya! That's why I would be suspicious of Adel if A Papaya would turn out to be town. Of course, if he's scum, I would not be suspicious of Adel. So, for the last time, I will NOT vote Papaya (unless a deadline occurs or he does something more scummy than not posting content), but I do not like his behaviour.

[Adel]

If you keep your vote on him, I might vote A papaya too but if he is town I will vote you next day.

So, for the last time, I will NOT vote Papaya (unless a deadline occurs or he does something more scummy than not posting content), but I do not like his behaviour.

I guess I misunderstood you, sorry. It seemed to be that you wanted to, but you didn't want responsibility for it.
Personally, I found his posts over the last couple of pages to be much scummier than the simple lurking that came before.

Lowell: where are you on this? Perfectly happy with your vote on Aimee?

Albert: Sorry you can;t tell the difference between unvotes and standing votes. I put green slashes through the heads and tails of the canceled votes. The Fos was marked OMGUS for the same reasons Ripley's vote on Lowell was in the first chart. I'm being consistent. Chide away. I decided that evaluating who defended who would be too much of a judgment call. Print out the picture and draw the lines of defense yourself if you like, I agree that it is good info.

[theopor_COD]

I'm pretty sure I know who he'll go after (which might be able to show us some other things about people) but I'll wait for his post to see if I'm right.

Ryan any further thoughts on Papaya?

I take it Papaya didn't attack the person you expected him to?

All this fluff about lurkers is getting to me slightly - to sum up I think it gives the scum an easy way to blend in as townies, plus I'm not keen on this post from Ryan.

I guess I figured with the frequency of my posts that would show I'm 100% on board with catching scum and figured I was posting enough thoughts to show that.

Just posting a lot does not mean your 100% on board catching scum. It seems to me your trying hard to blend in.

Still not convinced on Papaya, Tornado good post, previous page although I'm sad you left me out of your analysis. The fact I can't see Adel's diagrams is still irking me aswell.

I'm torn between Ryan and Papaya to be honest, what's everyones thoughts on Ryan?

[Adel]

The fact I can't see Adel's diagrams is still irking me aswell.

Is there a hosting service that isn't banned from you work? photobucket or imgplace.com or free-webhosts.com

As far as ryan goes, I have him in the same tier of suspician as you, bird, and lawrencelot. More scummy than Lowell, but less than the rest. Is your case against ryan that he fits in too well, and follows the herd? Would that apply to Bird111 as well?

[Adel]

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... E_5jun.png
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... II5jun.png

these should work for you theopor_COD

[theopor_COD]

The fact I can't see Adel's diagrams is still irking me aswell.

Is there a hosting service that isn't banned from you work? photobucket or imgplace.com or free-webhosts.com

As far as ryan goes, I have him in the same tier of suspician as you, bird, and lawrencelot. More scummy than Lowell, but less than the rest. Is your case against ryan that he fits in too well, and follows the herd? Would that apply to Bird111 as well?

Nope they all have restrictions . . . I'll have to wait until next week to view them, when I finally have a day off.

I wouldn't say Ryan fits in well, it appears to me as if he's trying hard to fit in, essentially what scum would like to do. I maybe totally wrong as I have little knowledge of his playstyle. Yeh I can see a similar argument against Bird he's not brought up any individual attacks - followed the Papaya wagon and lurker discussion so he's by no means cleared, what with him away for the next 5/6 days we won't get much out of him either.

[theopor_COD]

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... E_5jun.png
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... II5jun.png

these should work for you theopor_COD

Superb stuff

[Adel]

I can see a similar argument against Bird he's not brought up any individual attacks - followed the Papaya wagon and lurker discussion so he's by no means cleared, what with him away for the next 5/6 days we won't get much out of him either.

Him leaving his vote on was a little odd to me at first. I assume he did the math assuming that Papaya is scum, knowing that Aimee is on vacation as well, and felt taking his vote out of the system would stall the game or something.

Do the graphics help?