Mini Normal 1609: The Case Of Doctor Pepper (Game Over)

[Doogal121]

It has also became clear that the same players start becoming active whenever he begins to be tunneled again (massive, greencrayons, ruffles)

There is a very simple reason for this and it has nothing to do with BBT's alignment. I'll give you an example of this principle at work.

GreyICE's LaL push on AK. We know this wasn't true. There was push back on GreyICE for making the claim and on BBT for sheeping the vote. When Csareo made bad cases against BBT, the push back came into play against him. In theory, everyone who pushes GreyICE/JA for making a bad case and pushes BBT for following a bad case should also have some concerns about Csareo. In practice, it doesn't happen.

@Doogal121 & Flubbernugget:

Could you tell me why this hasn't happened in your case?

Well, as someone who was on the BBT bandwagon longer than Csareo, I don't think he made a bad case against BBT. I think the whole AK/TTH/BBT theory was confusing and wrong but I took that as town really trying to figure out what is going on here. And to make some sense of the whole AK vs Wake thing that going on. Can somebody explain the bad case made against BBT to me, I ISOed Csaero and I'm not seeing it?

I really believe that Csareo is a counterwagon to BBT and I would really like a flip to confirm this. Any of the Csareo/undecided crowd, are any of you willing to come over?

[Green Crayons]

Red rover, red rover.

[Green Crayons]

I really believe that Csareo is a counterwagon to BBT and I would really like a flip to confirm this.

Any of the Csareo/undecided crowd, are any of you willing to come over?

Could you walk through this a bit further?

[massive]

I really believe that Csareo is a counterwagon to BBT and I would really like a flip to confirm this. Any of the Csareo/undecided crowd, are any of you willing to come over?

No. It's crap like this:

Is there yet to be a comprehensible case on me?

That makes my blood boil. Five votes, at least three of which who have given thorough reasons for voting him, and rather than discussing or even refuting them, he calls names, acts like a child, and tries to pretend like the cases make no sense. Well, surprise, Csareo, maybe

you

don't understand, but enough of us do to keep voting for you.

[Doogal121]

I really believe that Csareo is a counterwagon to BBT and I would really like a flip to confirm this.

Any of the Csareo/undecided crowd, are any of you willing to come over?

Could you walk through this a bit further?

Sure, in the past 3 games I have played, I have noticed that town wagons tend to not have counter wagons pop up where scum wagons tend to have a secondary wagon pop up. A way to see if the wagon was indeed scum was to see what else happened once it got up to the L-1 or 2 level. I believe that Csaero is that wagon. If the flip comes with BBT as town, than I clearly was wrong. Perhaps the Csareo wagon was a real wagon and not some scum tactic. If that was the case, I would expect the light to be shined on myself, Csareo and Flubber. I am Ok with that.

I still think BBT is scum. I think the BBT flip will give us a chance to look at some votes and associations. I think the BBT flip either way gives us the most information to go upon. Can somebody make the same case for the Csaero flip?

People unwilling/unable to switch:
Massive
0MPH (being replaced)
BBT (cause it's suicide, I wouldn't expect him to self hammer)

People who haven't gone on record on the switch issue:
Rufflig
AK
JaggedAppliance
Crayons Verts

@Mod

Has the deadline shifted with the 0MPH replacement?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Perhaps the Csareo wagon was a real wagon and not some scum tactic. If that was the case, I would expect the light to be shined on myself, Csareo and Flubber. I am Ok with that.

Why did you exclude TTH, Boon and Wake from this list?

I still think BBT is scum. I think the BBT flip will give us a chance to look at some votes and associations. I think the BBT flip either way gives us the most information to go upon. Can somebody make the same case for the Csaero flip?

I'd rather lynch scum than lynch for information.

[Green Crayons]

@Doogal:

Sure, in the past 3 games I have played,

I have noticed that town wagons tend to not have counter wagons pop up where scum wagons tend to have a secondary wagon pop up. A way to see if the wagon was indeed scum was to see what else happened once it got up to the L-1 or 2 level.

I believe that Csaero is that wagon. If the flip comes with BBT as town, than I clearly was wrong. Perhaps the Csareo wagon was a real wagon and not some scum tactic. If that was the case, I would expect the light to be shined on myself, Csareo and Flubber. I am Ok with that.

So are you saying that (1) simply because there are two dueling wagons, the existence of a second bandwagon is evidence that the first bandwagon is on scum, or are you saying that (2) there is a particular sequence of events as to when these two specific bandwagons came into existence in this game that evinces the second bandwagon being an actual attempt to prevent the first bandwagon's lynch?

If it's the former: I don't see how, as a general proposition, simultaneously existing bandwagons is actual evidence of the first-occurring bandwagon being on scum, rather than simply being consistent with such a scenario. That is, I don't see how two simultaneously existing bandwagons, in and of itself, supports that it is more likely that the first bandwagon is on scum, rather than the second bandwagon, or both bandwagons, or neither bandwagon. I would appreciate any further comments you may have as to this theory, if you are indeed adopting it in the abstract rather than as applied to a particular set of circumstances.

If it's the latter: Can you please set forth the particular sequence of events that makes you believe that this second bandwagon (on Csareo) is an attempt to protect the first bandwagon target (BBT)?

-----

Also, as BBT is a solid town read for me, I'm not going to switch to the BBT wagon and sacrifice someone who I'm easily reading as town (not always the easiest thing to do) just for information.

[Doogal121]

Perhaps the Csareo wagon was a real wagon and not some scum tactic. If that was the case, I would expect the light to be shined on myself, Csareo and Flubber. I am Ok with that.

Why did you exclude TTH, Boon and Wake from this list?

Have either of those 3 pushed as hard on you as myself, Csareo or Flubber?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Have either of those 3 pushed as hard on you as myself, Csareo or Flubber?

I wouldn't say you or Flubber, particularly Flubber, have pushed particularly hard for my lynch.

[Doogal121]

@Doogal:

Sure, in the past 3 games I have played,

I have noticed that town wagons tend to not have counter wagons pop up where scum wagons tend to have a secondary wagon pop up. A way to see if the wagon was indeed scum was to see what else happened once it got up to the L-1 or 2 level.

I believe that Csaero is that wagon. If the flip comes with BBT as town, than I clearly was wrong. Perhaps the Csareo wagon was a real wagon and not some scum tactic. If that was the case, I would expect the light to be shined on myself, Csareo and Flubber. I am Ok with that.

So are you saying that (1) simply because there are two dueling wagons, the existence of a second bandwagon is evidence that the first bandwagon is on scum, or are you saying that (2) there is a particular sequence of events as to when these two specific bandwagons came into existence in this game that evinces the second bandwagon being an actual attempt to prevent the first bandwagon's lynch?

If it's the former: I don't see how, as a general proposition, simultaneously existing bandwagons is actual evidence of the first-occurring bandwagon being on scum, rather than simply being consistent with such a scenario. That is, I don't see how two simultaneously existing bandwagons, in and of itself, supports that it is more likely that the first bandwagon is on scum, rather than the second bandwagon, or both bandwagons, or neither bandwagon. I would appreciate any further comments you may have as to this theory, if you are indeed adopting it in the abstract rather than as applied to a particular set of circumstances.

If it's the latter: Can you please set forth the particular sequence of events that makes you believe that this second bandwagon (on Csareo) is an attempt to protect the first bandwagon target (BBT)?

-----

Also, as BBT is a solid town read for me, I'm not going to switch to the BBT wagon and sacrifice someone who I'm easily reading as town (not always the easiest thing to do) just for information.

It's the latter. I'm going off memory partly here because the VC's weren't regular at this time of the game. I believe BBT was at L-2 when I pulled my vote off because I was worried about troll hammering. This was on 9/11. I put my vote back on him 9/17 because I was no longer worried about troll hammering and he was just acting completely anti town. Right after that is when the BBT jumped on Csareo(bringing to L-4 I believe) and the votes started racking up on the counter wagon.

@Viridi Crayon, can you tell me what BBT has done that is pro town?

[Doogal121]

Have either of those 3 pushed as hard on you as myself, Csareo or Flubber?

I wouldn't say you or Flubber, particularly Flubber, have pushed particularly hard for my lynch.

I can't speak for Flubber, but I'm defiantly pushing for your lynch. I'm pretty sure I've been on your wagon the longest.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Have either of those 3 pushed as hard on you as myself, Csareo or Flubber?

I wouldn't say you or Flubber, particularly Flubber, have pushed particularly hard for my lynch.

I can't speak for Flubber, but I'm defiantly pushing for your lynch. I'm pretty sure I've been on your wagon the longest.

TTH has been on the longest and has done the least to push my lynch.

[Doogal121]

Shall we create some type of mathematical index of BBT Lynch-Pushiness? (Time on Wagon) X (number of times lynch advocated) perhaps?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sounds good.

You're giving yourself way too much credit for my wagon.

The only people I would say that are pushing my lynch would be Csareo and maybe Boon. The rest have voted me and sat back to see what happens.

[Csareo]

@Massive- I'm not taking the cases seriously, because there is nothing serious about them. They're all very laughable, and making people wonder about its true motive. I'm happy calling you, and the others on my wagon, names, because the logic is far beyond stupid. It is retarded. Now use your head, and stop aligning yourself with scum on a counter-wagon.

[Csareo]

BBT, who are you scum reading besides me and boon?

[Csareo]

Can we just agree that we need a flip?
Someone on or off my wagon needs to give ground on the BBT lynch.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Csareo, Boon: If both of you think scum are driving your wagon, who are they? Who's scum on the other person's wagon?

It is useless to think along those lines before a flip, but probably you and greencrayons.

This looks like you're scum-reading massive

Now use your head, and stop aligning yourself with scum on a counter-wagon.

But this looks like you're town-reading him.

Which is it?

[Jagged Appliance]

Stop with the insults Csareo.

@Doogal, on the switch issue, I'll hammer either of them to avoid a no-lynch.

[Csareo]

Csareo, Boon: If both of you think scum are driving your wagon, who are they? Who's scum on the other person's wagon?

It is useless to think along those lines before a flip, but probably you and greencrayons.

This looks like you're scum-reading massive

Now use your head, and stop aligning yourself with scum on a counter-wagon.

But this looks like you're town-reading him.

Which is it?

Nothing I said in the last quote was allegiance indicative.
I'm not scum reading Massive until I see what you flip.
How many times do I need to repeat myself.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nothing I said in the last quote was allegiance indicative.
I'm not scum reading Massive until I see what you flip.
How many times do I need to repeat myself.

Yeah, it was. You wouldn't tell someone you was scum-reading to 'use their head and stop aligning themselves with scum' because it doesn't make sense.

You would say that to someone you were town-reading though.

I think you're town-reading massive in an attempt to appease him and make him switch wagons.

[Csareo]

I would if that would work. There is nothing to scum read him for besides lurking and disagreeing with me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I would if that would work. There is nothing to scum read him for besides lurking and disagreeing with me.

You can't scum-read someone for disagreeing with you.

Also, why aren't you scum-reading Doogal, Flubber and TTH for lurking as well?

[Csareo]

I would if that would work. There is nothing to scum read him for besides lurking and disagreeing with me.

You can't scum-read someone for disagreeing with you.

Also, why aren't you scum-reading Doogal, Flubber and TTH for lurking as well?

You don't get street talk, do you?
It is sarcasm, I can't scum read massive because he hasn't done anything scummy (disagreeing with me isn't a scum tell).

[Csareo]

If you flip scum, then that is a different story altogether.