Newbie #358 - Big Trouble in Little Rome (Game Over!)

[Dr. Doom]

Okay, to get discussion started a little more, can everyone please tell the people again why you want teh player you are voting for to get lynched? Thx.

[Mr. Flay]

Fifteenth Vote Count of Day One:

Battle Mage - 3 (vollkan, Dr. Doom, Scarecrow)

Dr. Doom - 2 (Dio, Battle Mage)
vollkan - 1 (Jack)
Dio - 1 (TrustGossip)

Not voting - no one!

With seven alive, four votes will lynch.

Deadline rescinded, don't make me regret doing so.

You can't say I didn't warn you...

fixed deadline now in place for Sunday, June 10th, at midnight server time.

Same voting rules as before apply; highest vote-getter gets a long-drop-and-short-stop, unless they have less than 50% of the cast votes. That means currently no one would be lynched, since BM has only 3 out of seven votes.

Tonight I will prod people who have not posted since the start of June.

[Scarecrow]

Okay, to get discussion started a little more, can everyone please tell the people again why you want teh player you are voting for to get lynched? Thx.

I want BM to be lynched because of his scummy play-style and his scummy meta-gaming.

(Although I wouldn't mind seeing vollkan lynched either, for his scummy group conformity and such-like)

[Dr. Doom]

Okay, what exactly do you mean by "scummy playstyle"? What makes it scummy? And what is scummy about his metagameing?

And what do you mean when you say "and suchlike"?

[Jack]

BM is probably scum. But I'm not comfortable voting anyone but vollkan. Dr doom, I repeated my vollkan case so many times I don't know how to say it anymore.

I will hammer to prevent no lynch however.

[Battle Mage]

ive made the points against Dr Doom. if you are town, get your act together and go and read them. there's little point me trying to persuade the scum to bus their buddy. lol
if i die today, you gotta kill Dr Doom tomorrow. the scum are almost certainly out of the following 3: Jack, Scarecrow, Dr. Doom.

[Scarecrow]

Okay, what exactly do you mean by "scummy playstyle"? What makes it scummy?

His ranting and appeals to emotion, and the way he buldozers after people with little or no evidence or logic behind him.

And what is scummy about his metagameing?

It's basically WIFOM, which, while sometimes useful, is most often little more than crap logic.

And what do you mean when you say "and suchlike"?

Backpedaling in the face of adversity.

[Dr. Doom]

Gagh, I hate BM's and Jack's Playstyles. Really, I hate them.

I don't really want BM to get lynched atm (although its past two AM here, so it might be tiredness speaking), but a No Lynch is worse than a BM lynch (No Lynch will put us into Lylo tomorrow with 100% probability, and a random lynch will put us into Lylo only 5/7 times (or even 1/3 if you factor your own towniness in)).

*sigh*

The thing is, the game is unlikely to move now (at least, that's how I see it), and it really saddnes me that Dio got away so lightly - you basically lurked the whole time and left nothing really tangible whatso ever. Plus, you are the only Player who got bot under serious suspicion yet.

So:

FoS:Dio

doe excessive lurking and flying under the radar.

[vollkan]

Okay, to get discussion started a little more, can everyone please tell the people again why you want teh player you are voting for to get lynched? Thx.

My reasons for voting BM are (linked to my relevant posts):
1) His accusing of SC (and now Doom) as scum without substantial argument and appealing to emotion [300]
2) BM still has not answered the question regarding that weird post about having unwittingly defended scum [305]
3) His resorting to dodgy statistics [346]

Having said that,

The thing is, the game is unlikely to move now (at least, that's how I see it), and it really saddnes me that Dio got away so lightly - you basically lurked the whole time and left nothing really tangible whatso ever. Plus, you are the only Player who got bot under serious suspicion yet.

So: FoS:Dio doe excessive lurking and flying under the radar.

A good point. Dio lurked and remained under the radar, which meant that he hasn't ended up doing enough to make any opinion of him other than 'lurker'.

[Dio]

Dr. Doom, I want you lynched because of how crazy you are. You vote BM, and yet you don't want him killed? Why wouldn't you want someone killed who you think is scum? Isn't that better then a no lynch? Maybe night would be good for the town because obviously if some does get lynched it means that the town generally think he is scum. I do not think any ones votes on BM were not without reason or thought so we can not just consider them following someone else. Dr. Doom, what was the point of using that pointless gesture of FOSing on me? Trust no one in mafia is generally something everyone uses when they play, so wouldn't your finger be on everyone?

[Dr. Doom]

Err, crazyness? Okay, I had not heard that one before. Which of my actions were crazy?

I voted BM to put him under heavy pressure, to see who would come out to maybe defend him, what reactions it provoked. And, last but not least, I voted him because he made such silly accusations against SC, because he said yes to the crass misrepresentation of SC that vollkan delivered, and that I donT follow his reasons at all. But there isstill some doubt in me, and that bugs me.

At the moment, my suspicion points more in your and Jacks direction - you both seem to be very intent on lynching BM, yet only Jack votes for him, and you both used "Any lynch is better than No Lynch" to justify lynching BM. Of course, the argument is valid (thats why I'm okay with BM at teh moment, and because I have heavy suspicion of him), but it still seems somehow fishy. For scum, its good if Town gets lynched, so in a situation like this, if the obvious lynchtarget is town, it becomes a convenient excuse to push their lynch.

Fosses aren't pointless or just meaningless gestures, they allow people to track who I am suspicious of (in case of my untimely demise, for example). Plus, it indicates more than the basic 30% suspicion people have for everyone. It's and indication that I don't like your lurking at all, because a) if you are town, what is the point of doing it? and if you afre b) scum, its terribly convenient so you can't give away scumtells, can't slip up, can't give away yourself and your partnter through interaction etc.

So no, my Finger is not on everyone.

[vollkan]

Dio, this sentence here:

Maybe night would be good for the town because obviously if some does get lynched it means that the town generally think he is scum.

You are saying if somebody is lynched who we think is scum, then night will benefit us? I don't quite see how that works. I am sure you are have mixed up somewhere, but what were you trying to say?

[Dio]

Dr. Doom, I understand why you think my lurking is scumtell, but very rarely do I actually see any scum that' not a newb lurk. More often then not I find that the scum are the ones that attempt to take control of the town's mind questioning everyones actions. Now that I reassess my reasons for voting it seems as though there isn't really much evidence for my thinking your scum, but just a gut feeling of my own.

Vollkan, I was saying that it would expand the knowledge of the town for the next day, even if two of the townies die. I'd expand on this but I have to go take finals. I'll try to finish it later tonight.

[Battle Mage]

ooh this is the 3rd newbie game in which im at L-1.
whilst it is tempting to hammer myself into the coffin, i still think there is hope for a Dr Doom lynch.

[TrustGossip]

Ah, I was prodded, apologies for not saying anything but ever since Dio got involved the game seems to be careening downhill.

I've already stated that BM meta tends to point to BM playing suspiciously even when town (which is enormously unhelpful, thanks).

I'm wondering why there is a push to lynch Dr. Doom, has he been particularly unfounded in his attacks and reasoning? Is he too aggressive? Is he filling the game with craplogic?

Personally, I don't see the case against him, and since the two main pushers are the black sheep (BM), and the resident lurker (Dio), I'm not taking it that seriously.

I do think BM is not the greatest lynch. I think the person who my vote is on should be ridden of.

[vollkan]

The case on Doom is not that strong. It mostly stems from him putting BM at L-1, with BM and Dio seeing that as a massive scumtell.

One though, BM wrote at [322]:

ill respond to anything else later. note also that your last comment implies that you want scumbuddy Dio to return and hammer me. if Doom comes up scum tomorrow, be wary of Dio.

Then Dio posted at [324] against Dr Doom
SC unvotes me and votes BM at [329], BM accuses this of being SC trying to save his "scumbuddy Dr Doom" at [330]

After all of the statistics and stuff, at [355] BM writes:

if i die today, you gotta kill Dr Doom tomorrow. the scum are almost certainly out of the following 3: Jack, Scarecrow, Dr. Doom.

My point from these quotes is this:
Earlier on Gossip noted that Dio emerged from the woodwork only after BM was put at L-1. Something else here to think about is that BM seemed convinced that Dio and Doom were scum buddies. Then Dio goes against Doom and suddenly the scum are "almost certainly" out of Jack, SC and Doom. BM's suspicion of Dio suddenly flew out the window once Dio joined BM against Doom. Furthermore, BM maintains that Doom should be lynched tomorrow (in view of the fact that BM thinks he will be lynched today).

[Battle Mage]

you forget that Doom has since been backtracking, in order to distance himself from the BM wagon.

[Dr. Doom]

What? Where have I backtracked?

Plus, I think I said so before, and I will say again, that I'm not sure you are teh best lynch, but atm you are definetly under the top three (the other two being dio and Jack).

Btw, BM, you still have not said a word about teh stuff I quoted three times against you now. So if you want me to move my vote (or the other two people who are voting for you), or if you want the town to win, convince me that you are in fact probably not scum by defending yourself.

[vollkan]

BM, Doom wrote:

Dr. Doom wrote:
Plus you dodged this entirely:
Dr. Doom wrote:
Your scumminess (as I see it) stems from the fact that I just can't really see why you see SC as scummy. You say he plays like you do if you are scum (I don't see any similarity in the playstyles of you two, btw), and that his remark about your aggressiveness and that his reasons for it relied partly on wrong Logic is a class A scumtell. I just don't follow - It was an Offhand remark, and he did not vote or attack you for it. When you reacted like it was huge thing, he attacked you more, but it was you who first shifted into high-gear.
Plus, when vollkan grossly misrepresented SC, you agreed with him 100%, which does not speak protown to me.
and
Dr. Doom wrote:
Battlemage wrote:
its posts like these that convince me Vollkan is town. ive unwittingly defended scum like this many times, and the typical scumbag response is to tie themselves to me, so i get lynched tomorrow. Instead, Vollkan is showing genuine suspicion of me. Im still happy killing Scarecrow.

Care to explain that one further, please? I don't really get what you mean here - vollkan defends someone you think is very clearly scum, yes? Who would that be?
Say something in regards to this, because that is why I accuse you.
You still dodged this, despite answering to my posts twice, and both times you claimed that there is nothing that is hold against you.

Can you please answer these questions? (Though I already said this way back in [319])

Also, I don't see what you mean by "backtracking". Doom's most recent post before you raised that issue stated:

I voted BM to put him under heavy pressure, to see who would come out to maybe defend him, what reactions it provoked. And, last but not least, I voted him because he made such silly accusations against SC, because he said yes to the crass misrepresentation of SC that vollkan delivered, and that I donT follow his reasons at all. But there isstill some doubt in me, and that bugs me.

I see no evidence for your accusation. Again, much like the anti-Doom thing you and Dio have been running of late, this accusation of backtracking smells like an attempt to throw suspicion off yourself.

Oh, and to re-iterate, BM answer the questions!

[Dr. Doom]

vollkan, why the hell are you repeating basically everything I say?

[vollkan]

I've been wanting BM to answer those questions for some time also, since he has been avoiding it. I figured he wouldn't be able to avoid it again if I jumped in after you and demanded he answer. I knew you had already asked him to, but I wanted to make sure he couldn't avoid it again.

Also, I read his backtracking accusation and wanted to make up my own mind as to whether there was any substance to it. I quoted your post prior to his accusation to illustrate what BM said was unfounded. You asked him for evidence, I presented evidence to the contrary.

[Jack]

Yeah vollkan, why are you basically repeating everything Dr. Doom says?

[vollkan]

I just explained myself then.

Unless you (Jack) were attempting to be funny by basically repeating Doom's querying of me.

[Scarecrow]

I believe he was joking.


I don't have much to say, except that I am very pleased with my vote right now.

[Battle Mage]

lol im pretty sure i already answered that, but ive lost most interest in this game, so its possible that i didnt. anyway, the reason i thought Vollkan was town, is that if he was scum, he would have tried to tie himself to me, so when i died, he'd look town by defending me, or when he died, his buddy could convince others that i was the other scum. he did neither, so i dont think he is scum. comprende?

the thing about Doom is simple from where im sitting. he tries to drum up alot of Anti-BM statements etc, then once the wagon speeds up, and a lynch looks certain, he changes his tune, and tries to distance himself from it. Classic scum.

oh and btw, stop acting dumb if you are town. if i was trying to save my life, why would i be provoking someone who WASNT ON MY WAGON and who could hammer me at any time?

your arguments make little sense, and the fact that you are repeating Dooms comments to make yourself appear useful is dubious in itself.

BM

BM, Doom wrote:

Dr. Doom wrote:
Plus you dodged this entirely:
Dr. Doom wrote:
Your scumminess (as I see it) stems from the fact that I just can't really see why you see SC as scummy. You say he plays like you do if you are scum (I don't see any similarity in the playstyles of you two, btw), and that his remark about your aggressiveness and that his reasons for it relied partly on wrong Logic is a class A scumtell. I just don't follow - It was an Offhand remark, and he did not vote or attack you for it. When you reacted like it was huge thing, he attacked you more, but it was you who first shifted into high-gear.
Plus, when vollkan grossly misrepresented SC, you agreed with him 100%, which does not speak protown to me.
and
Dr. Doom wrote:
Battlemage wrote:
its posts like these that convince me Vollkan is town. ive unwittingly defended scum like this many times, and the typical scumbag response is to tie themselves to me, so i get lynched tomorrow. Instead, Vollkan is showing genuine suspicion of me. Im still happy killing Scarecrow.

Care to explain that one further, please? I don't really get what you mean here - vollkan defends someone you think is very clearly scum, yes? Who would that be?
Say something in regards to this, because that is why I accuse you.
You still dodged this, despite answering to my posts twice, and both times you claimed that there is nothing that is hold against you.

Can you please answer these questions? (Though I already said this way back in [319])

Also, I don't see what you mean by "backtracking". Doom's most recent post before you raised that issue stated:

I voted BM to put him under heavy pressure, to see who would come out to maybe defend him, what reactions it provoked. And, last but not least, I voted him because he made such silly accusations against SC, because he said yes to the crass misrepresentation of SC that vollkan delivered, and that I donT follow his reasons at all. But there isstill some doubt in me, and that bugs me.

I see no evidence for your accusation. Again, much like the anti-Doom thing you and Dio have been running of late, this accusation of backtracking smells like an attempt to throw suspicion off yourself.

Oh, and to re-iterate, BM answer the questions!