Mini Normal 1609: The Case Of Doctor Pepper (Game Over)

[Anatole Kuragin]

I think there are enough cautious players in this game that the two wagons could be both town. Two DPs from now and we have two wagons like this it may mean something. Day 1, mafia are fishing for towncred and trying to avoid doing anything loud and stupid. If they know the two most likely lynches are mislynches they're probably sitting back sipping mai-tais waiting for some idiot like Boonskies to drop the hammer. Why would they rush?

Hmm, OK. That makes sense. Someone also stated earlier that scum will be unwilling to move votes so as to avoid garnering unwanted attention and I agree with that also.

I just don't see any other wagons forming though.

Other than GreyICE, who are your biggest scum-reads?

Would vote Rufflig or Boonskies. I work more on townreads early on than scumreads.

Townreads - Doogal, Green Crayons, BBT, Csareo

[Anatole Kuragin]

@Anatole:

It's less of a "I find (such and such)

individual

posts scummy" and more of "I find the pattern your activity makes scummy."

So far this game, you very much like to stick to facts and point out obviously bad arguments (criticizing BBT's "scum slip" argument comes to mind). This isn't scummy in and of itself, but then I feel like with the people you

do

push, your analysis is on a very superficial level. Take GreyICE.
I went and took a look at GreyICE's previous games to see if he actually does tend to flake out as scum and the one I found was this one Sleepy Hollow. He seemed plenty active in that game as scum. I also think he could have recovered from the gaffe since, at least as far as I recall, plenty of people (myself included) were ready to forgive him for it.

Why would you forgive him for it without knowing anything about his thought process or motivation? I get that you may not give a shit since it's not you he was baselessly trying to murder, but you don't think it's a little bit strange that the player went through the trouble of researching my games and

completely lied about them

? If such a spectacular attempt at descrediting someone failed, wouldn't you just say fuck it, I'll let my replacement come in and get instantly whitewashed? It rubs me the wrong way and now we'll never know what the fuck he was thinking.

@wake, Anatole:

you two, along with Jagged, are the only players who aren't voting for either Csareo or BBT. I'm curious as to your thoughts about both wagons, and why your vote is where it is (Anatole on Jagged (replacing GreyICE), and wake on nobody, as of last VC).

BBT made lots of bad votes. He wasn't deliberately dishonest and he continued doing it after the spotlight was on him - that doesn't strike me as scum dropping convenient votes to get wagons started, it strikes me as an overzealous, overreactive nub honestly. This play-style has been consistent of him all game. GreyICE did one scummy as fuck thing then completely dropped off when called on it.

What about the gamestate do you see changing since your last set of posts here?

I don't understand, what changed since two posts ago?

Since 701. There's about a 300 post interval between that post and your next post.

Well what exactly are we supposed to ask him about it? "Hey, you scum bro?"

Am I "him" here? If you find something I'm doing scummy or deserving of more attention I figured you'd have a reason why or something in particular that requires a "spotlight?" So what is it?

I have no means of getting additional information in reference to GreyICE's gaffe but I'm assuming by the way you speak of it there is a way. Could you enlighten me here?

I kinda touched on the GreyICE thing already - having an alignment-unknown GreyICE explain what he was thinking would be pretty telling of his motivation.

Most of the last 300 pages have been more mudslinging between csareo and BBT and me-tooing and vague assertions by at least you and TTH. This "you should put some pressure" or "we should put the spotlight" stuff seems really counter-productive and like you're trying to shift suspicion for no specific reason.

[Boonskiies]

@Green Crayons:

I still think BBT is likely scum. I had doubts a while ago and tried to make myself happy with a townread on him, but failed for a few reasons. There's

still

the neighbor meta and I absolutely hate the Csareo vote. The whole "reactive is my meta" isn't doing much for me either since that was his go-to line when I called him out on it in Chosen mafia.
The only thing that makes me hesitate is that I don't know if he actually thought he was chasing a scumslip with his game-opening post. I guess that's my fault since I claimed the neighborhood thing. *sigh*

And this is exactly why the idea of lynching Flubber was just a policy lynch. ^

Why?! I agreed with pretty much every word of that post

.


I meant it differently than how you interpreted. I completely agreed with Flubber's post, and previously BBT had wanted to lynch Flubber instead of Csareo/himself. I didn't see scumminess in Flubb, so I didn't agree with the idea of having him lynched today.

[Bert]

Vote Count 1.07

BlueBloodedToffee(6)

– TellTaleHeart, Flubbernugget, Csareo, Boonskiies, Doogal121, Wake88

Csareo(5)

– Omph, The Rufflig, Green Crayons, BlueBloodedToffee, massive

JaggedAppliance(1)

– Anatole Kuragin

Not Voting(1)

- JaggedAppliance

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch
New deadline is on Sunday, September 28, 2014, 11:00 AM {(expired on 2014-09-28 11:00:00)}

Mod notes:

Wake88 is V/LA until the 22nd
Doogal121 is V/LA Tuesday, September 23rd.[/area]

[Flubbernugget]

I kinda touched on the GreyICE thing already - having an alignment-unknown GreyICE explain what he was thinking would be pretty telling of his motivation.

Most of the last 300 pages have been more mudslinging between csareo and BBT and me-tooing and vague assertions by at least you and TTH. This "you should put some pressure" or "we should put the spotlight" stuff seems really counter-productive and like you're trying to shift suspicion for no specific reason.

I'm trying to shift suspicion because I see the same thing in the last 300 posts that you do. But if you don't like where or why I am trying to shift suspicion, why are you not trying to either shift suspicion somewhere you deem appropriate or help me out in doing the same?

[Anatole Kuragin]

@Anatole:

It's less of a "I find (such and such)

individual

posts scummy" and more of "I find the pattern your activity makes scummy."

So far this game, you very much like to stick to facts and point out obviously bad arguments (criticizing BBT's "scum slip" argument comes to mind). This isn't scummy in and of itself, but then I feel like with the people you

do

push, your analysis is on a very superficial level. Take GreyICE.
I went and took a look at GreyICE's previous games to see if he actually does tend to flake out as scum and the one I found was this one Sleepy Hollow. He seemed plenty active in that game as scum. I also think he could have recovered from the gaffe since, at least as far as I recall, plenty of people (myself included) were ready to forgive him for it.

@wake, Anatole:

you two, along with Jagged, are the only players who aren't voting for either Csareo or BBT. I'm curious as to your thoughts about both wagons, and why your vote is where it is (Anatole on Jagged (replacing GreyICE), and wake on nobody, as of last VC).

BBT made lots of bad votes. He wasn't deliberately dishonest and he continued doing it after the spotlight was on him - that doesn't strike me as scum dropping convenient votes to get wagons started, it strikes me as an overzealous, overreactive nub honestly. This play-style has been consistent of him all game. GreyICE did one scummy as fuck thing then completely dropped off when called on it.

What about the gamestate do you see changing since your last set of posts here?

I don't understand, what changed since two posts ago?

Since 701. There's about a 300 post interval between that post and your next post.

Well what exactly are we supposed to ask him about it? "Hey, you scum bro?"

Am I "him" here? If you find something I'm doing scummy or deserving of more attention I figured you'd have a reason why or something in particular that requires a "spotlight?" So what is it?

I have no means of getting additional information in reference to GreyICE's gaffe but I'm assuming by the way you speak of it there is a way. Could you enlighten me here?

I kinda touched on the GreyICE thing already - having an alignment-unknown GreyICE explain what he was thinking would be pretty telling of his motivation.

Most of the last 300 pages have been more mudslinging between csareo and BBT and me-tooing and vague assertions by at least you and TTH. This "you should put some pressure" or "we should put the spotlight" stuff seems really counter-productive and like you're trying to shift suspicion for no specific reason.

I'm trying to shift suspicion because I see the same thing in the last 300 posts that you do. But if you don't like where or why I am trying to shift suspicion, why are you not trying to either shift suspicion somewhere you deem appropriate or help me out in doing the same?

Because you're trying to shift suspicion to me? I'm still playing catch up from the weekend on all my games, so my current method of figuring out my suspicions in this game is to get answers for my questions put forth or responses from my own answers.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Those top two quotes are accidental, stuff I may address later but opted not to now or already referenced.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Can we lynch BBT pls. And then put the spotlight on AK?

Lynch BBT? No thanks. However, I'm up for shining some light on Anatole Kuragin. I'd love to hear what you have to say on the subject.

What do YOU have to say on the subject, Rufflig?

[Doogal121]

@AK, you probably answered this already, but I can't find it. Can you tell me how you felt about BBT jumping on the LaL wagon against you without even reading the posted game?

[Csareo]

Glad you guy's are being more active, but someone has to give now.
Anatole, how do you still not understand why we should lynch BBT?
Are there any questions I can answer to help you get there?

[Anatole Kuragin]

@AK, you probably answered this already, but I can't find it. Can you tell me how you felt about BBT jumping on the LaL wagon against you without even reading the posted game?

Basically because it's consistent with his other moves. That is, engaged but irresponsible voting and overly reactive cases.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Glad you guy's are being more active, but someone has to give now.
Anatole, how do you still not understand why we should lynch BBT?
Are there any questions I can answer to help you get there?

If you want to succinctly sum up the reasons you're voting him I'll entertain them. You guys have both had a lot of back-and-forth that just looks like mudslinging between two proud townies and I'm not sure what the actual case is anymore besides what I just said above - he makes bad and reactive votes. I'm skeptical of you being the roastmaster general for his lynch because I think you've made bad votes too. Not because it makes me suspicious of your role/alignment, but because it makes me suspicious of the reasoning behind condemning him.

[Doogal121]

Everybody, I have the feeling that the Csaero wagon is a counter wagon that I was expecting to see. Looking at the voters, the people on the BBT wagon are the people I am town reading, where as the Csareo wagon are either null to scum for me. I don't think we have a town vs town issue going here.

@Jagged, Can you give us a quick reads list please?

@Mod I'll be V/LA tomorrow (tuesday)

Noted!

[Csareo]

A town vs town wagon is out of the question for me.

[Jagged Appliance]

@Mod, there's a mistake in the last VC, I'm not voting anyone atm.

Fixed, thanks!

Just to make sure UNVOTE:

I reread the thread, here are my reads:

Town:

Flubber
Wake
Green Crayons
Anatole
BBT

Null:

Omph
Rufflig
massive
Boon
TTH
Csareo

Scum:

Doogal

I feel like I can't get a good read on Csareo but I'd lynch him ahead of BBT, no question. Thoughts on Doogal coming soon.

[Boonskiies]

That was an unexpected scum read.

[TellTaleHeart]

I don't care for Jagged Appliance's reads list. Green Crayon's, BBT's, and Anatole's positions on the town list are rather undeserved and there's only one scum read with a rather large group of nulls. It doesn't help that I'm townreading his scum read.

Looking at the voters, the people on the BBT wagon are the people I am town reading, where as the Csareo wagon are either null to scum for me.

I feel the same way.

[Green Crayons]

@TTH:

1) Was BBT scum or town in Chosen mafia?

2) What happened to your Ruffling suspicions? I came away from your ISO last night wondering why you hadn't voted him all game.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I don't care for Jagged Appliance's reads list. Green Crayon's, BBT's, and Anatole's positions on the town list are rather undeserved and there's only one scum read with a rather large group of nulls. It doesn't help that I'm townreading his scum read.

Looking at the voters, the people on the BBT wagon are the people I am town reading, where as the Csareo wagon are either null to scum for me.

I feel the same way.

Funny because those three names are my townreads.

[TellTaleHeart]

@TTH:

1) Was BBT scum or town in Chosen mafia?

2) What happened to your Ruffling suspicions? I came away from your ISO last night wondering why you hadn't voted him all game.

1) BBT was scum. Link to the game if you actually want to read it.

2) The way Ruffling's been pushing Csareo's probably been the most town out of the wagon. I particularly liked how he responds to my frustration regarding the Csareo wagon. He didn't get fussy about it, refused to spoon feed, and told me to go through his ISO to decide for myself, which I think is far more likely to come from town than scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I love it when people use meta to try to read me and get it completely wrong.

It actually makes me happy.

[massive]

I still don't think BBT or Csareo have done anything that elevates them past misguided townies. Those are strictly deadline hammers for me and nothing else.

You made your comment on why you think BBT is town, can you comment on the case on Csareo and why you townread him?

[Anatole Kuragin]

It's not that I'm townreading him - Csareo is a null read for me who is making a lot of the same mistakes and assumptions that townies typically make. I don't see scum motivation for those actions or for his supreme confidence in them. You basically have to accept that if BBT can be town and act the way he is, then Csareo can be as well, and vice versa.

[Anatole Kuragin]

For that reason I'm not particularly inclined to vote either of them because it's going to encourage a situation where we end up lynching both - like the theory about TTH and BBT advocated by Csareo.

[massive]

For that reason I'm not particularly inclined to vote either of them because it's going to encourage a situation where we end up lynching both - like the theory about TTH and BBT advocated by Csareo.

This makes zero sense. You are effectively saying "Csareo had a bad idea, but it's not worth voting for him." And "Csareo and BBT's alignment is dependent on the other." Why do you believe that?