[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Bicephalous Bob]

Could 'Rebels in the Palace' be considered Normal? (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... the_Palace)

I have an idea for a slight deviation on it, and would like to try it in the Normal queue.

I'm not sure nightless is allowed, but you could just call the guards traitors, the king a goon and the rebels vts

[JasonWazza]

-Only townies who are sent to heaven are added to the dead PT. Townies who are sent to heaven have a separate martyr PT.

This doesn't quite make sense, wouldn't this qualify the dead QT as the Martyr QT?

I think he means there are two "dead" QTs. One general dead QT, and another one just for those who are sent to heaven (martyrs)

Yes but he had Heaven in both of them, meaning they all went to one dead topic and Hell doesn't have a topic.

Could 'Rebels in the Palace' be considered Normal? (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... the_Palace)

I have an idea for a slight deviation on it, and would like to try it in the Normal queue.

I'm not sure nightless is allowed, but you could just call the guards traitors, the king a goon and the rebels vts

It sounds basically not normal, the variant could be normal but you have to base it off this

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game

[Wake1]

I see.

The Variant I'd like to try.

If I can try that, can we go Nightless? If not I'll include Nights... but I'm not sure there's a limit on how long they must be. If not I'll make them 5 minutes long.

[JasonWazza]

Pretty sure nightless isn't inherently non normal (at least according to the wiki) but you'd have to bring that up with the normal review crew.

[wgeurts]

Ive got 2 versions of ++ game in this thread: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p6234573
I put them there as they fill alot of room and I'd love serious reviewers to review them.
A question; How do I get a game to be played or hosted?

[Wake1]

I'm not seeing any mention at all about not having Nights in a Normal game.

Setup

Closed Normal Games should satisfy the following rules:
The game should have at least one Mafia or Werewolf group (of at least two members). A second anti-town group can be given a separate Mafia family name, or can be a Werewolf group. There should be no more than two mafia/werewolf factions, and no more than one Serial Killer.
The game must contain at least one Vanilla Townie (allowed names include: Townie, Vanilla Townie, Innocent Townsperson, Citizen). A sample Role PM for the Vanilla Townie must be included in the rules post.
Mechanics which are explicitly Non-Normal include:
Those affecting a role's alignment (no Cults).
Anything which significantly affects the core mechanic of majority/plurality lynches (no Kingmaker, for example).
Anything resolving with a random element, with the exception of missed night choices. It must be included in the public ruleset if you are resolving night choices in this way.
Post Restrictions (other than those included in the ruleset, such as "No quoting your Role PM").
Lying to the players, including False Role Reveals and "Scum Masons".
Night action redirection (no Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, or Redirector).
Returning "No Result" to Trackers who do not see their target go anywhere (in favor of "Your target did not visit anyone").
Alignments other than Mafia/Werewolf, Pro-Town, and Serial Killer (no Survivor, Lyncher, or Jester).
Hydra accounts.

Also, nothing in that page says you can't use a Day Cop role. I think it'd be Normal if you had an X-Shot Cop that can use its ability during the Day.

Not sure about duplicates. Searched through and found no mention of that, either.

[JasonWazza]

Also, nothing in that page says you can't use a Day Cop role. I think it'd be Normal if you had an X-Shot Cop that can use its ability during the Day.

Considering it's not in the approved modifiers (given it's not that unknown of a modifier) i would say it's probably not normal.

As has been said though, you will get a normal review crew to check your setup, for normal queue.

[Wake1]

I understand a bit better now. Thank you Jason,

[wgeurts]

That's enough setup making for me this week.

Apocolypse:

Factions:

Cult:

Win Condition: Have the majority be a Cult member:

1 Cult Leader

Survivors:

Win Condition: Have the majority be a Survivor member.

1 Recruiter

Zombie:

Win Condition: Have all players become Infected.

1 Doctor-Proof Zombie

Mafia:

Win Condition: Have the majority be Mafia.

1 Mafia Leader

Town:

Win Condition: Kill all Mafia.

1 Surgeon
2 Doctors
1 Detective
1 Deprogrammer
1 Roleblocker
5 Town

This setup works with 5 different factions each with a different Win Condition. It starts with a night-phase. Town members if they are recruited may or may not keep their role. It depends on the Faction Ability.

Faction Abilities:

Cult:

Any people who started in the Town Faction recruited into the Cult keep their abilities. Can only be recruited to other factions by Deprogrammer or Zombie.

Mafia:

Any people who started in the Town faction recruited into the Mafia keep their abilities. Has a night-kill while the leader lives and is on the Mafia faction, he controls the night-kills target too.

Survivors:

Any people who started in the Town faction keep their abilities. Survivors can be infected but can't be converted to zombies.

Zombies:

Anyone recruited to the Zombies loses their ability. All people in the Zombies (faction) becomes a zombie (role). Can only be recruited to another faction by a Doctor, all other attempts fail.

Town:

No abilities.

Recruitment Info:

If 2 or more factions recruit/convert 1 person at the same time, priority is taken in this order:

• Zombie
  
• Cult
  
• Survivor
  
• Mafia
  
• Town

Roles:

Cult Leader:

Visits one person each night, that player is recruited to the Cult faction.

Recruiter:

Visits one person each night, that person is recruited to the Survivors faction.

Zombie:

Visits one person each night, that player becomes a zombie after the next night. Zombies die if they visit the Cult Leader.

Mafia Leader:

Visits two people each night, the first person is recruited to the Mafia and the second is killed.

Surgeon:

Visits one person each night, one person from a rival faction visiting that player is killed and that player is protected from conversions and night-kills. (Can stop zombie conversions from occuring the following day.)

Doctor:

Visits one person each night, that person is protected from night-kills and if they are a Zombie recruited to the Doctor's current faction.

Deprogrammer:

Visits one person each night, if that person is a Cult member he is converted to the Deprogrammer's current faction.

Roleblocker:

Visits one person each night, that persons role is blocked.

Detective:

Visits one person each night, finds out that persons role and current faction.

Town:

No abilities.

[OkaPoka]

waaaay to swingy

[wgeurts]

waaaay to swingy

Yeah, it's not a serious strategy setup.

[reinoe]

waaaay to swingy

Yeah, it's not a serious strategy setup.

Why are you wasting everyone's time with it then? Whatever.

[wgeurts]

waaaay to swingy

Yeah, it's not a serious strategy setup.

Why are you wasting everyone's time with it then? Whatever.

As although it isn't stragetic it'd make an interesting game.

[OkaPoka]

It would be fun if all the players weren't serious. Also couldn't a recruited member out the team? And plus your original alignment is probably going to change.

[ika]

day 1 mass rolecall: GG

[wgeurts]

Yeah I'm thinking of ways to make it more strategic. This is not a final setup.

[theslimer3]

1 town, 3 mafia, 3 cops.

[wgeurts]

Ok here's a balanced none swingy version.

Apocolypse:

Factions and Roles:

Zombies:

1 1-Shot-Doctor-Proof Zombie

Cult:

1 Weak Cult leader

Mafia:

1 Roleblocker
1 Goon

Town:

1 Detective
1 Surgeon
1 Doctor
1 Deprogrammer
1 Survivor
6 Vanilla Townies

Faction Information:

Win Conditions:
Zombies:

Infect all players.

Cult:

Have half the town remaining plus 1 be a member of the Cult.

Mafia:

Consist of half the town remaining.

Town:

Kill all Mafia.

Other:

The Mafia have a night-kill.

Roles:

Zombie:
Visits one person each night, that person becomes infected and becomes a zombie after the next night. Zombies die if they visit a Cultist or Cult Leader.
Weak Cult Leader:
Visits one person each night, that person is converted to a Cultist. Dies if he targets a Mafia and nothing happens if he targets a Zombie.
Cultist:
A member of the Cult with no abilities.
Goon:
A Mafia member with no abilities.
Roleblocker:
Visits one person each night, that person's role is blocked.
Surgeon:
Visits one person each night, that person is protected from conversion and any infection status is removed (Zombies stay zombies and don't lose infection status.). That person can't be night-killed.
Doctor:
Visits one person each night, that player is protected from night-kills and if he visits a Zombie the Zombie dies.
Deprogrammer:
Visits one person each night, if that person is a Cultist he is converted back to his original role.
Detective:
Visits one player each night, finds out that players role.
Survivor:
Can be infected by a Zombie but can't convert to a Zombie.

[ika]

i would still say mass rolecall=GG

[wgeurts]

i would still say mass rolecall=GG

Mass rolecall would end in you being recruited or killed hence losing your ability, there is also a Roleblocker. Rolecall would end as a disaster, this version starts with day.

[wgeurts]

Llama, what are your opinions on my Apocolypse setup and my ++ setup which is somewhere in this thread.

[Kaiveran]

@wgeurts

Town:
TTTTTTT =

Lawyer + Goon

,

Serial Killer

TTTTTT =

Lawyer + Goon

TTTTT =

1-Shot Stalker + Goon + Lawyer

,

Serial Killer

TTTT =

1-Shot Stalker + Goon + Lawyer

TTT =

1-Shot Stalker + Goon + Hooker

,

Serial Killer

TT =

1-Shot Stalker + Goon + Hooker

T =

Stalker + Lawyer + Hooker

,

Serial Killer

0 Ts =

Stalker + Lawyer + Hooker

Informative:
I =

1-Shot Cop

II =

Cop

III =

Cop + 1-Shot Cop

IIII =

Cop + Deputy

IIIII =

Cop + Deputy + 1-Shot Cop

IIIIII =

2 Cops + Deputy

Protective:
P =

Bodyguard

PP =

Doctor

PPP =

Doctor + Bodyguard

PPPP =

Doctor + Bodyguard + Nurse

PPPPP =

2 Doctors + Nurse

Killing:
K =

1-Shot Vigilante

KK =

1-Shot Vigilante + Suicide Bomber

KKK =

2 1-Shot Vigilantes

KKKK =

2 1-Shot Vigilantes + Suicide Bomber

OR

Vengeful

KKKKK =

Vigilante + 1-Shot Vigilante + Vengeful

Passive:
A =

Innocent Child

AA =

2 Masons

AAA =

2 Masons + Innocent Child

AAAA =

2 Masons + Innocent Child + Virgin

AAAAA =

3 Masons + Virgin

Manipulative:
M =

1-Shot Roleblocker

MM =

Roleblocker

MMM =

Roleblocker + 1-Shot Rolestopper

MMMM =

Roleblocker + 1-Shot Rolestopper + 1-Shot Roleblocker

MMMMM =

2 Roleblockers + 1-Shot Rolestopper

Serial Killer

chooses one of two abilities at start of game;

• Innocent to Cops
  Or
  
• 1-Shot Bulletproof

These might be better distributions.

For Scum:

Lawyer shouldn't be held in such high esteem. It's a limited utility role and like Godfather (which it is equivalent to at the bottom tier) it's mainly there to knock the Cop category down a peg so that it's more on par with the other categories. I also re-added SK for 7 Ts, so that it's an even 50% probability across the board; besides, 2:1:10 mountainous doesn't have bad chances.

In the next tier you have a slight increase in active power with the 1-Shot Stalker and extra member to weather the odds with more power roles.

Hooker is a bigger jump in power but is balanced out by losing protection from cops, and finally a full Stalker rounds out the movement.

Killing Roles:

Suicide Bomber is a poor choice for an entry level killing role. At least a 1-Shot vig (the standard first tier in these games) can turn around a Mylo situation if it lives to such. Suicide Bomber can't even do that. Therefore I bumped the power up 1 level.

Misc:

Serial Killer can choose full investigation Immunity. And I recommend changing the name Rolestopper to Asceticizer (I understand that name is entrenched here but Asceticize describes what it does a lot better. )

[wgeurts]

Ah, the Mafia balance is great! Thanks for doing that, how would I be able to get this into a wiki?
Also, what would be a good name?

[LlamaFluff]

Llama, what are your opinions on my Apocolypse setup and my ++ setup which is somewhere in this thread.

Apoc is broken to massclaim and nowhere near balanced/too many factions/etc

++ a few things

1) If we have a role on MS that is already what you are trying to accomplish, there is no need to change the name of the role.
2) You are really messing with some core mechanics and im not sure how I feel about that with relation to the balance of the setup.

If I can just talk about it:

The best thing about C9++ to me is information and trying to pin down the setup. If done correctly for town, it makes it very difficult for scum to get away with much. This setup drastically changes a few things, first is the way that scum flips effect the game. In the normal C9++ flips like a godfather point to both ends of the spectrum, RB flip rules out quite a few thing. This setup just gives so much to town and scum out the gate it feels a lot less like a variable setup.

Scum know within one PR of what town has, and for sure after first night. Town has a few roles that auto-confirm the number of letters drawn in its category.

As odd as it sounds C9++ is a very subtle setup, this just seems to rip all of that away and it should be a non-C9++ that just is its own type of variable setup.

Think town just knows too much as soon as a scum flip happens for this to work well. In C9++ town already can get a leg up if the play it and claim in an optimal way, this just seems like scum is going to get trapped amazingly fast as soon as one flips unless they have been lucky with few/dying PRs.

[wgeurts]

@Llama
Apocolypse:
Care to explain how mass-claim would break it? The scum have a Roleblocker and a night-kill, along with the factions the role claim would end with half the PR's being recruited or killed. This however is definitely a Bastard setup.
++:
The Scum knowing which roles are in-game is unlikely, half the time the stalker is 1 shot and there aren't any roles that are only used on a certain roll or letters. The biggest give away I see would be the Virgin. As for the town role claiming, it would be very risky. Most of the time the protective role is a bodyguard who can only really pull of his act if he remains hidden as he dies if the guy he protects is night-killed. There are not many doctors and the Lawyer would make life hard in the cases of follow the cop that do get pulled off. Roleclaiming would not be a wise decision. Do you suggest a name for this new "category"?