Mini Normal 1609: The Case Of Doctor Pepper (Game Over)

[Csareo]

I haven't pushed a "TTH is scum" stance for a long time.
Actually, a few posts up, I noted that I'm not scum reading her.

[TellTaleHeart]

*sigh*

The most frustrating thing is, I think the core of the Csareo wagon is that:
1) Csareo's cases and reasoning don't make much logical sense (this was extensively covered by Ruffling, most recently in post 690)
2) Csareo hasn't made much of an effort to build up much goodwill to anyone else with the exception of possibly Wake, but even that's debatable

But when you think about Csareo's activity as a whole, it's very possible (and in my opinion, pretty

likely

) that he's town who doesn't necessarily think things through before posting them and, as a result, has public image troubles.

[Csareo]

I also reffered to the idea that one of them is scum, and not the other, shortly after making the accusation of them being scum buddies.
Your case is broken.

[Boonskiies]

@massive - It was showing how often I speculate things like I did with the SK posts for GreyIce. I go out there with speculation.

[Boonskiies]

@Csareo - do you see a situation where neither of them are scum?

[Csareo]

The only post that has been accused of not making sense, is the one where I made a case on AK, and refrenced several possible alliances.
Ruffling and Massive have made there entire case on that post, and I conceded I was wrong very shortly after.

Wrong does not equal scum. So yes, any townies seeing the case on me should be frustrated.

[TellTaleHeart]

You did it again. Believe me, this is a real life trip.
If you are accused of doing something, someone telling the truth would reply in the third tense "...and I copying from a scum PT"
You stated it using "the", which signifies that the person being questioned is confirming its existence, and regarding the context in which you said it, I am awfully suspicious you may be in it as well.

The neighborhood is a PT so, unless the mod wanted to change it up for no reason in the middle of setting up the game, I'm betting scum have a PT as well.

[Csareo]

@Boonskies- There are millions of scenarios. One prominent one involves greencrayon being scum, and I'm not completely sure about that theory.
But my strongest speculations point to BBT being scum, and I'm not scum reading TTH.

She's been null for a long time now.

[Csareo]

Well, there's something that's been bugging me, and it's that this is a normal game.
TTH, where do you live (country, state)? Weird but important question.

[Wake1]

@Wake- Why would there even be three scum in a 9 player game? That's imbalanced from my POV.

Just noticed this.

We're in a 13-player game.

[Csareo]

For some reason when I said that, I thought we were in mayfair club.
Since the last game I had w/ doctor pepper was in there.

[TellTaleHeart]

In my mind, I keep going back to the group of (TheRuffling, massive, and Green Crayons).

I can tell from their posting styles that they're intelligent and articulate. I'm also inferring that they have at least a fair bit of experience. Something about their Csareo push just seems lacking in that I feel like the fundamental question of "What about all this leads us to conclude Csareo is scum?" remains largely unanswered.

I guess my hangup boils down to: If

I

(the remedial mafia player here) don't really see the Csareo case, how is it that all these power players are seemingly

so sold

on it? It makes me wonder.

And nothing any of these players are saying is unreasonable or illogical. Everything Ruffing, massive, and Green Crayons are saying are

technically

true. It just doesn't add up to Csareo being scum.

What I'm left with is my standing theory, which is that there's some kind of agenda behind the Csareo wagon.

[Boonskiies]

@Boonskies- There are millions of scenarios. One prominent one involves greencrayon being scum, and I'm not completely sure about that theory.
But my strongest speculations point to BBT being scum, and I'm not scum reading TTH.

She's been null for a long time now.

Wait, Greencrayon? Explain?

[Boonskiies]

To clarify, I have read his posts, I am just not sure what makes him scummy.

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH, where do you live (country, state)? Weird but important question.

Time zone purposes?

Eastern United States

[Wake1]

Boonskiies, you mentioned in 20 that BBT was a super wild card as Scum. Since we have the time, would you please tell us more about your experience with him in that game?

[Jet Skiies]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=23899

He is just as prominent in that game. He doesn't necessarily throw his vote around, but there is a post in the middle of the thread about who everyone is 'okay with lynching' and he is all over the list, as he is here with the people he's voted. That game he did vote significantly less, but he was willing to lynch others. He tends to find reasons, and keep with them, often repeating the same stuff. As I have accused him of doing here, as well.

[Boonskiies]

Sorry, that's my hydra. ^ Anywho, yes, he's a wildcard because it was difficult for me to read him in that game. I constantly wanted to put him down as just trolly town, and he ended up being scum. (It was a reverse game, so mason vigilante's were the scum in that game, where mafia goon was town.)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Everytime I ask what meta you're referring to, you repeat yourself.
You're hesitant to actually answer the question.
Am I missing something?

I'm going to answer this below. Stay tuned.

I'm currently V/LA.

BBT, Flubber and TTH, what're your reads on Csareo?

Scum. He scum-slipped remember? He's also tunneling and making no attempt to develop any other reads (which funnily enough, is what he is accusing me of doing)

The only thing that is going to get me to scum read Csaero is either lurking or one hell of a scum slip.

Like this?

This is going to be sad

when you flip town

. Vote for yourself if that is the case.

Scum-slip?

2.

BBT, there was a point when you thought Csareo may have been town as indicated here,

508 and 530.

I forgot you scum-slipped. You seem to genuinely believe your case on me though and it makes me want to town-read you. But you scum-slipped.

Hmm.

Can you pinpoint or quote a specific thing he said or something that happened that made you think this?

538 was the main one. It felt genuine to me.

BBT reminds me of what I was like as noob scum

If you're going to use meta to support your push for my lynch, you should use it correctly. In my very first game on this site, VERY FIRST GAME, I was scum. This was Newbie 1495 (here; http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=46044) Now, if I was going to be bad as scum, this would be it right?
Please, show me similarities between that game and this game.

She's been null for a long time now.

A null read. After 30 pages. Further evidence of your tunneling and lack of attempt at scum-hunting anywhere else.

[Wake1]

Boonskiies, you mentioned in 20 that BBT was a super wild card as Scum. Since we have the time, would you please tell us more about your experience with him in that game?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=23899
He is just as prominent in that game. He doesn't necessarily throw his vote around, but there is a post in the middle of the thread about who everyone is 'okay with lynching' and he is all over the list, as he is here with the people he's voted. That game he did vote significantly less, but he was willing to lynch others. He tends to find reasons, and keep with them, often repeating the same stuff. As I have accused him of doing here, as well.

Sorry, that's my hydra. ^ Anywho, yes, he's a wildcard because it was difficult for me to read him in that game. I constantly wanted to put him down as just trolly town, and he ended up being scum. (It was a reverse game, so mason vigilante's were the scum in that game, where mafia goon was town.)

(740: 741, 742)
Alright. So you provided a link to that game. Good. You mention he's just as prominent in that game. Please expand on that. What I want from you is to find matches between his Scum game there and his play here. References would help you, I would imagine. Please give me solid reasoning and evidence as to why we should put BBT down today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I would like to request that since I play in a different time zone to most people here that if I get to L-1 and somebody states I2H (overnight, while I'm sleeping) that I get 24 hours to respond/make my last post.

[Boonskiies]

My reasoning for voting him isn't necessarily based on his scum meta. I actually don't believe he's playing too similar to that game either besides prominence and willingness to accept a lynch on someone. In that game he lurked when things starting to cave in on him. I didn't pay a lot of attention to him in that game because I wasn't able to read him. I don't believe his meta from that game should be counted as any reasoning for his lynch toDay, but if someone else could argue otherwise, maybe. He also had stated that it was his worst game he's ever been in, so I would imagine that had some effect as well. I skimmed through that game again, and I really couldn't find any matches besides what I've already stated. But like I said, I don't believe we should scum read

OR

town read him due to that.


PEdit:

@BBT - I will unvote if it comes to that, but don't expect me to stay unvoted if you can't back it up with

new

relevant reasons.

[Wake1]

I would like to request that since I play in a different time zone to most people here that if I get to L-1 and somebody states I2H (overnight, while I'm sleeping) that I get 24 hours to respond/make my last post.

So long as it doesn't conflict with the deadline, I'm fine with it.

You'll need the time to fabricate a decent fakeclaim.

My reasoning for voting him isn't necessarily based on his scum meta. I actually don't believe he's playing too similar to that game either besides prominence and willingness to accept a lynch on someone. In that game he lurked when things starting to cave in on him. I didn't pay a lot of attention to him in that game because I wasn't able to read him. I don't believe his meta from that game should be counted as any reasoning for his lynch toDay, but if someone else could argue otherwise, maybe. He also had stated that it was his worst game he's ever been in, so I would imagine that had some effect as well. I skimmed through that game again, and I really couldn't find any matches besides what I've already stated. But like I said, I don't believe we should scum read

OR

town read him due to that.

So what's the real story here?

[Boonskiies]

I don't find the meta argument from the other game relevant, basically, as he's a wildcard in general. I do find him scummier here than I did in that game though, which is odd because he was scum there. I'll take another look...

[Green Crayons]

*sigh*

The most frustrating thing is, I think the core of the Csareo wagon is that:
1) Csareo's cases and reasoning don't make much logical sense (this was extensively covered by Ruffling, most recently in post 690)
2) Csareo hasn't made much of an effort to build up much goodwill to anyone else with the exception of possibly Wake, but even that's debatable

But when you think about Csareo's activity as a whole, it's very possible (and in my opinion, pretty

likely

) that he's town who doesn't necessarily think things through before posting them and, as a result, has public image troubles.

Whenever there is a player who has the personality as Csareo, it is entirely possible that his personality vomits actions that are really just anti-town, rather than scummy (because he is town and not scum).

That's why I was digging into the subject with Flubber.

My problem is that I have been burned both ways. I've lynched people who were acting suspicious because that was their playstyle, but who were town. I've also refused to lynch people who were acting suspicious because that was their playstyle, but who were scum. So that gives me pause to credit a "playstyle" defense, as it can be used pretty well by scum, but I'm still weighing what Flubber had to say. Plus, I don't think I'm entirely clueless about bad playstyles, and do my best to look through playstyles that are more foreign to me to determine whether I really think there's something scummy there at the core.


At any rate, because BBT is so incredibly town it hurts, I'm not keen on jumping from my Csareo vote at the moment without having another good thing to move to. So I'm waiting until I have the time to review some players that I have been wanting to lookin at, and then I will follow through (which may entail a vote switch, maybe not) at that time.