Open 570: Making Friends and Enemies (Mafia Wins!)

[nopointinactingup]

Coming into the game, something about these questions caused me to question BBT. I asked myself 'is this line of questioning real or is he going to do something with this info?'

Oh, he found scum.

I just -don't believe- his conviction here.

Everything about this case on MS does not seem right from BBT: To have such an aggressive stance from the beginning and based on negligible reasons.

Neglibible reasons, you say? Why... what negligable reasons?
1) Vote hopping... (Not alignment indicative)
2) "Partner" (Eh, I read this as 'I'm a VT. Mason is my partner.') [On a side note, I think a scum-MS would have addressed this 'partner' concern. This word could go either way alignment-wise].
3) Pre-flipped associative tells.

This is exactly the BBT inconsistency I'm getting at.

[goodmorning]

He has a habit of dodging questions. OK, let's do this then.

What is this supposed to mean?

GM

- I don't know how to read her until she reads the thread.

I've read 75% of the thread. Do you have 75% of a read on me?

I think it was the way the "Why?" came after the vote rather than after the quote. Like he needed an excuse for joining an rvs wagon. It just didn't seem to flow.

No it was rather a serious vote.

Which you oddly have yet to really explain, afaik.

And why do I have to explain Huntress's imagination?[/quote]
What you have to explain is your apparently serious vote. Stop dodging.

GM's OMGUS on MS is just bad. I'm willing to lynch her but I'd rather gain more in the day.

The definition of OMGUS: To suspect someone in reaction to their suspecting you.
I suspected Sonic. He then "suspected" me in direct reaction.
If either of us is OMGUSing, it's Sonic.

Apparently point 1 applies to npiaa as well as to Sonic.
So, too, point 4.

[goodmorning]

ew quotes why

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What about the case did you agree with?

If you agree with every point and disagree with the conclusion, as you as implying, there is a reason you decided A doesn't equal B.

Can you explain why A (MS's case on GM) doesn't mean B (GM is scum)?

It does not provide any substantiation comments on the game state, does not give any reads, does not mention if anybody is town, and are just lackadaisical comments that provide absolutely no contribution or any form of curiosity of scum hunting nature that would be expected from a townie.

I called you out for lurking, so you read the previous pages and made a few swift comments to appease te town and super quote blocks to make your post seem long. Like, it takes only 10 minutes max to read 2 pages of content, and for the past few days you checked the thread only to prod dodge. When an expected analysis of the previous two pages was to be analyses, you gave no analysis whatsoever. No reads, no scumhunting, nothing.

I agreed that GM hadn't provided anything substantive. I also agreed that she hadn't provided much in the way of reads, this ties into the first comment anyway. I agreed that much of her posting was fluff and pretty much useless to determine her alignment. I also agreed with the lack of scum-hunting.

I don't think this makes GM scum though. She just hadn't got into the game yet. It's as simple as that. Had she continued in that vein of behaviour, sure, I would have began scum-reading her.

I guess it just comes down to personal interpretation.

Spoiler: Response to NPAU

Because there's no scum motivation in doing something like that. It is clear that he wrote the "partner" intentionally for some kinda gambit. But since there's no reason for scum to do that at all, chances are he's town unless he's incredibly manipulative. Even then, he would face controversy surrounding his post, so I'm more inclined that it's a anti-town, but town move.

So you're saying that scum cannot be incredibly manipulative?

Define soft defend. Why would scum more likely to soft defend each other and not just outright defend or outright distance each other?

Outright defending is too easy to link when one of you has been lynched. Outright distancing is also pretty easy to spot. Soft-defending is usually something scum do without realizing it, it's a mistake.

There you are stating my point. You are not entirely sure about MS-scum, yet you're linking him to buddies. It sounded much like feign tunneling to me. Furthermore I don't agree with your other reasoning, town are not afraid of pressure so are more likely to gambit and vote hop. Scums normally just wants to lay low and cruise through.

Of course I'm not entirely sure MS is scum, how could I be? What a strange thing to say.

I'm not saying any more about the associations. I have been as clear as I can be on that issue.

On another note, BBT is looking more contributive so I'll give him more leeway.
GM's OMGUS on MS is just bad. I'm willing to lynch her but I'd rather gain more in the day.

Unvote.Vote:Huntress

Wait, what? So all your talk is directed at me and GM, and then you vote Huntress.

Why?

This is exactly the BBT inconsistency I'm getting at.

What inconsistency would that be?

[Peabody]

I don't quite have a 75% read on you, GM.

A large portion of your posts are the back and forth with MS about you not reading, how he's scum reading you for lack of effort, and how you express you are busy and haven't caught up (which is fine. Just can't read you yet).

I don't see lack of catching up as alignment indicative, and I wish to withhold judgement on your alignment until I have something I can call a town tell or scum tell. I read alignment as the game goes.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

He has a habit of dodging questions. OK, let's do this then.

What is this supposed to mean?

It means MS dodged my questioning way back on p5 or whenever it was.

[Peabody]

Re: BBT

Thanks, I have no further questions ATM concerning that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Post 55 for reference GM.

[goodmorning]

Thanks to both of you for that.

[beastcharizard]

I am glad activity has picked up.

Now you all will get a vote count, in this post...eventually.

[Peabody]

You're welcome.

BBT, I didn't expect you to be silent about my case on you.

[beastcharizard]

Also, while I am doing mod things I have prodded: EspressoDan, Nyanyanya and Alpha Sapphire.

[Zebulin]

ISOing everyone, will post reads once finished

[Shinobi]

ISOing everyone, will post reads once finished

I'm loving the sense of context here.

[Zebulin]

Alright, it's Zebulin's Reads!

Scale:

Very Town

Town

Null

Lurk

Scum

Very Scum

Shinobi

:

Seems towny. I really like post 75, and 19 posts is pretty active. He doesn't seem to care for Metal Sonic very much, but isn't calling anyone out particularly. He is trying to get the game moving, which is nice.

nyanyanya

:

Wow! 3 posts! All of them useless! So much logic can be gained from this! Cutting the sarcasm, lurking isn't good, but it's not enough information. Prod should help one way or another.

ExpressoDan

:

4 posts! Even better than nyanyanya! Again, no information really to be gained (although 106 seems townish). Prod should help.

nopointinactingup

:

5 posts! Wowzers! 2 of the posts have information, but I don't agree with his logic (too meta-based for me). It does seem like he's trying to scumhunt, though.

MetalSonic

:

Oh, this is an intresting one. Metal Sonic played post 28 ...

interestingly

so say the least. He did a weird VT/Mason gambit, then argued with me about grammar for 2 pages. He then vote hops and demands sheep. He then says a ton of stuff tat just confuses me (no conclusion), stops pressuring goodmorning, then starts pressuring goodmorning, then stops pressuring goodmorning. 65 posts is a good number, I admit, but that is some seriously weird play. Maybe his strategy is to confuse us all so we can't scumhunt effectively.

BlueBloodedToffee

:

Sheep me! Sheep me! Sheep me! BlueBloodedToffee applies a lot of pressure, but seems to want a following pretty badly. I do not like this. He is asking questions and has a nice 41 posts, so that's useful.

Huntress

:

9 posts isn't good, but almost all of them have content. A lot of questions, not much pressure. A little worrying, as this is what scum would do to avoid pressure. Might be a playstyle thing, more posts needed to check.

Zebulin

:

What do you think I'm going to say for this one?

goodmorning

:

Can't read, can't read, pressure pressure pressure. Also attacking Metal Sonic, who I'm not the biggest fan of. 25 posts is good enough, and I like the effort. There are valid points raised by others about who I am too lazy to name (I don't want to look it up), so not totally town.

Malakittens

:

A good amount of content, but not all of it actually useful. Also a good amount of prod dodges. 18 is okay, but if by my count only 6 are really game-based, it's not a good thing.

JoshB

,

Peabody

,

KatieB

:

Not in game long enough to get a real opinion.

[goodmorning]

@Shinobi: Maybe you could explain that sentence.
@Zeb: Why ISOs?

P-Edit: And why cop out on Josh and Peabody? They've posted more than the lurkers have.

[Shinobi]

No.

[goodmorning]

Then I'll ask you at a later date.

[Shinobi]

The answer will still be no.

[Shinobi]

I've thought about it and I have no idea what you think having me answer that question will accomplish.

Why ask it?

[Josh_B]

In post 137, Josh_B wrote:
Right now I think MS is town. The VT gambit is semi rolefishing but further play says maybe not. Trying to get a rise out of the Mason? most likely. Gonna draw out scum? Probably.

You think town semi-role fish?

How do you think it draws out scum?

Yes.
Scum love WIFOM. It's like mafia crack. It's great for town... if you know how to read it, and it's responses. I'll make a town case of MS, wait for it.

[Malakittens]

Malakittens: A good amount of content, but not all of it actually useful. Also a good amount of prod dodges. 18 is okay, but if by my count only 6 are really game-based, it's not a good thing.

I'm not entirely sure why you are saying my posts are 'prod dodges'. I actually have not once gone in prod range because I have been posting daily. So which of my posts are considered 'prod dodging' to you?

All of my posts have been game based one way or another besides maybe one which was me saying "hi to Josh".

So yeah I take offense to this whole read on me in general.

[Josh_B]

Why would MS feel the need to answer a question directed at someone else? It would obviously be a mistake from scum that they would hope no-one would pick up on. I doubt MS made the post thinking he would get linked to NPAU.

It isn't a scum tell. That's just people being actively involved in the conversation.
Me either. Do you think we should Lynch NPAU to see if MS is trying to WK off of a lynch? Or do you think we should lynch MS so we get a clear off of NPAU?
I don't and neither of these two scenarios make sense. Maybe we can follow trails that actually lead to finding scum and not randomness. If I answer a question or but my nose into a conversation that just means I want to participate in the thread, judge my comments for their content.

[goodmorning]

I've thought about it and I have no idea what you think having me answer that question will accomplish.

Why ask it?

It will accomplish making you readable.

I don't see what it is about that statement that has made it so inexplicable for you.

[Malakittens]

Hi Josh!
In post 137, Josh_B wrote:
On the other hand, I'm really not feeling Town Huntress.

Why would that be?

Lot's of probing questions, not a lot of personal POV.

Fyi;

that's actually a characteristic of town-Huntress, but I shouldn't be quick to townread her yet because she knows what to dodge when playing with me and something she posted makes me lack confidence that we have yet to have a town-huntress.