Open 570: Making Friends and Enemies (Mafia Wins!)

[Metal Sonic]

How are you town-reading Shinobi?

PEdit - what has she done that is scummy?

I don't have any good answers besides "He looks town". He did mention that he "burned" me in another game, that was half-true. I was townreading him for quite awhile until the later part of the game where he became obvscum. It might be happening now, and I have no way to find out.



Look at how defensive she is. And I wrote a pretty big case against her for a game with less than ten pages. You read that, didn't you?


PS: I just realised that goodmorning is female. Then I tried to go to her GTKAS to attempt to find out her age (out of curiosity). It wasn't put there so I had to guess.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't have any good answers besides "He looks town". He did mention that he "burned" me in another game, that was half-true. I was townreading him for quite awhile until the later part of the game where he became obvscum. It might be happening now, and I have no way to find out.



Look at how defensive she is. And I wrote a pretty big case against her for a game with less than ten pages. You read that, didn't you?

Hmm, maybe you shouldn't town-read people so quickly. Shinobi really hasn't done much. I feel like you're town-reading people to appease.

Defensiveness does not equal scum. I did read your case and I agreed with it. I just don't agree with the conclusion that she is scum because of it.

[Metal Sonic]

I don't have any good answers besides "He looks town". He did mention that he "burned" me in another game, that was half-true. I was townreading him for quite awhile until the later part of the game where he became obvscum. It might be happening now, and I have no way to find out.



Look at how defensive she is. And I wrote a pretty big case against her for a game with less than ten pages. You read that, didn't you?

Hmm, maybe you shouldn't town-read people so quickly. Shinobi really hasn't done much. I feel like you're town-reading people to appease.

Defensiveness does not equal scum. I did read your case and I agreed with it. I just don't agree with the conclusion that she is scum because of it.

Maybe. The content in this game is very little and it's affecting my results, I'm working with what I have. In a larger game, it would be very obvious to me who is town and not. I'm playing Uncle Sonic to appease, by the way, so you're not totally wrong.

Defensiveness does equal scum. Active lurking also equals scum. Not contributing to the town despite being here =

refusing

to contribute = scum. What else? Right. Having bad reactions when one is being put at L-3 at page 7 probably adds quite a few scumpoints too.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Maybe. The content in this game is very little and it's affecting my results, I'm working with what I have. In a larger game, it would be very obvious to me who is town and not. I'm playing Uncle Sonic to appease, by the way, so you're not totally wrong.

Defensiveness does equal scum. Active lurking also equals scum. Not contributing to the town despite being here =

refusing

to contribute = scum. What else? Right. Having bad reactions when one is being put at L-3 at page 7 probably adds quite a few scumpoints too.

I agree that we have too many people not contributing.

I am a defensive player. So many people misinterpret this as scummy. It's not always the case. Active lurking I agree is scummy, which is why I have asked GM to actually do something.

You don't think someone has the right to react badly if they are put to L-3 after 7 pages when half the votes on them are RVS votes?

[Metal Sonic]

Maybe. The content in this game is very little and it's affecting my results, I'm working with what I have. In a larger game, it would be very obvious to me who is town and not. I'm playing Uncle Sonic to appease, by the way, so you're not totally wrong.

Defensiveness does equal scum. Active lurking also equals scum. Not contributing to the town despite being here =

refusing

to contribute = scum. What else? Right. Having bad reactions when one is being put at L-3 at page 7 probably adds quite a few scumpoints too.

I agree that we have too many people not contributing.

I am a defensive player. So many people misinterpret this as scummy. It's not always the case. Active lurking I agree is scummy, which is why I have asked GM to actually do something.

You don't think someone has the right to react badly if they are put to L-3 after 7 pages when half the votes on them are RVS votes?

That's cause they can't differentiate between town-defensive and scum-defensive.


Likewise, she reacted scummily-badly. One can react well or react badly. Bad is synonymous for scum, by the way.

Nobody has the right to react badly. They have the right to react, but never react badly. If one reacts badly, one is likely scum.

That is pretty much it.

[Josh_B]

-Ok, Shinobi, I just happen to have an extra town read in my pocket. Here you go. But not because you think you deserve it. I'm just a nice guy and have extra pocket candy.

- Oh, there's a big surprise! That's an incredible. I think I'm gonna have a heart attack and die from that surprise!

Commercial break to respond to BBT, and cut in on his convo with Orange in Sharp Contrast.

This may take a while. It's the first time this game has had any remotely serious opinions.

[Josh_B]

Does anyone else feel like this is a 9 player game and it takes 7 votes to lynch?

I am going to have to shamefully postpone responding until this evening. Whichever player read this please find something in the last three pages to like or dislike for little or some reason. I don't care what BBT thinks about people butting in. It's part of the game, let him deal with it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why haven't you responded to the questions I asked you?

[Josh_B]

cause

I was up all night working and all day yesterday, and now I'm tired and going to sleep.

I've been kind of busy IRL.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But you're here and posting now...

[goodmorning]

Lol

Coming from the person who can't read 2 pages

well once i read them i'll at least be able to comprehend them

it's almost like i care about solving the game and you don't

perish the fucking thought

Toffee pressures Metal Sonic

Metal Sonic tells Toffee to leave him alone

I don't like this at all. Town should be fine with scumhunting, even if it's on them (since they can say all their thoughts; as town, they have nothing to hide). Also, the uncle sonic thing bugs me.

Will post more when I have time

This is an overreaction. I don't like this post.

See, I actually quite like that post. It screams "NEWBTOWN" in neon letters.

Also, GM can you actually do something please.

I am doing something. That something just doesn't extend to pages 3-4 atm.

This post in particular was one of the worst catchup posts that I would only expect from bad VIs (user VDA) or just textbook scum.

It does not provide any substantiation comments on the game state, does not give any reads, does not mention if anybody is town, and are just lackadaisical comments that provide absolutely no contribution or any form of curiosity of scum hunting nature that would be expected from a townie.

I called you out for lurking, so you read the previous pages and made a few swift comments to appease te town and super quote blocks to make your post seem long. Like, it takes only 10 minutes max to read 2 pages of content, and for the past few days you checked the thread only to prod dodge. When an expected analysis of the previous two pages was to be analyses, you gave no analysis whatsoever. No reads, no scumhunting, nothing.

I actually agree with most of this.

Really?????

It hinges on my post having been a catchup post of pages 3-4, which it categorically wasn't _{(the posts having been in the hundreds and all on the current page was a dead fucking giveaway)}. It then throws in a slice of

utterly fucking useless

Beetlejuice and pretends that means something. How in the flying fuck can you agree with any of that?

You think town semi-role fish?

I never semi role-fished. All I said was that I am a Vanilla Townie over and over. I told the masons to stay quiet. If anyone is going to get rolefished, it's the scum.

this post = worst post

Ironically, Goodmorning received 3 votes during RVS and these lurkers probably haven't removed their votes yet. With your vote, goodmorning will be at L-2. If he is scum as I predict, he is going to cry, lol.

Oh you poor thing.

I am the type of person who replaces into L-1 slots. Votes do not and have never bothered me as any alignment.

Look at how defensive she is. And I wrote a pretty big case against her for a game with less than ten pages. You read that, didn't you?

I've found that if you let the bullshit live it tends to multiply.

And your case was a pretty massive fucking steaming pile.

"Boo hoo, gm hasn't read these fucking pages yet" WELL EFFORT IS NOT AND HAS NEVER BEEN INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT

Do I need to bring up my delaying making a case for a month as VT again or are people sick of that yet?

Defensiveness does equal scum. Active lurking also equals scum. Not contributing to the town despite being here =

refusing

to contribute = scum. What else? Right. Having bad reactions when one is being put at L-3 at page 7 probably adds quite a few scumpoints too.

Rebutting a case =/= defensiveness.
Being at the fucking beach =/= active lurking.
And I'll repeat for the record that I do not and have never cared about votes.

Vote: Sonic

[goodmorning]

Lol

Coming from the person who can't read 2 pages

well once i read them i'll at least be able to comprehend them

it's almost like i care about solving the game and you don't

perish the fucking thought

JUST TO MAKE THIS STAND THE FUCK OUT

[Metal Sonic]

"Boo hoo, gm hasn't read these fucking pages yet" WELL EFFORT IS NOT AND HAS NEVER BEEN INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT

lol, cut the bullshit lol, both you and i know what's going on and you know that i perfectly understand "EFFORT IS NOT AND HAS NEVER BEEN INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT"

go throw the wool over the newbie's eyes if you want though i actually want to see your flail

[Metal Sonic]

it's almost like i care about solving the game and you don't

yeah we all can see that you care a fuckton

[Metal Sonic]

See, I actually quite like that post. It screams "NEWBTOWN" in neon letters.

Toffee pressures Metal Sonic

Metal Sonic tells Toffee to leave him alone


I don't like this at all. Town should be fine with scumhunting, even if it's on them (since they can say all their thoughts; as town, they have nothing to hide). Also, the uncle sonic thing bugs me.

Will post more when I have time

/!\ NEW PLAYER ALERT /!\

you copy me or something?

[Metal Sonic]

I am doing something. That something just doesn't extend to pages 3-4 atm.

you can post giant wall to cover your ass but refuse to read 2 pages? you know how ridiculous you sound?

like, its not pages 30-40, its 3-4. even a first grader can read that in the amount of time you took to make 210. theme games can make 2 pages in an hour. what, you don't play theme games? DA-MN!



guns are out baby, Uncle Sonic is here to catch the big scum in the sonic-net!

[Metal Sonic]

lets lay this on the table

you think that you've been caught for the wrong reasons and now you're throwing a hissy fit.

reaction test - bam!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

GM you think MS is scum because he presented a bad case on you?

[goodmorning]

No. I think he's Scum because
1. He hasn't displayed any interest in the actual content of anyone's posts, preferring instead to substitute his own narrative over the actual words people are actually saying.
2. His attempts to control the game are incredibly manipulative (as are some of his posts).
3. His butting in at various times is annoying at best (implies scummy at worst).
4. He's failed to answer my questions to him or discuss my rebuttals of his case. Which then links back to 1 and the whole fucking cycle starts again.

And that's not even getting into whether he was or wasn't rolefishing, or anything he might have posted on 3-4.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No. I think he's Scum because
1. He hasn't displayed any interest in the actual content of anyone's posts, preferring instead to substitute his own narrative over the actual words people are actually saying.
2. His attempts to control the game are incredibly manipulative (as are some of his posts).
3. His butting in at various times is annoying at best (implies scummy at worst).
4. He's failed to answer my questions to him or discuss my rebuttals of his case. Which then links back to 1 and the whole fucking cycle starts again.

And that's not even getting into whether he was or wasn't rolefishing, or anything he might have posted on 3-4.

He has a habit of dodging questions. OK, let's do this then.

VOTE: MS

[Peabody]

Coming into the game, something about these questions caused me to question BBT. I asked myself 'is this line of questioning real or is he going to do something with this info?'

Oh, he found scum.

I just -don't believe- his conviction here.

Everything about this case on MS does not seem right from BBT: To have such an aggressive stance from the beginning and based on negligible reasons.

Neglibible reasons, you say? Why... what negligable reasons?
1) Vote hopping... (Not alignment indicative)
2) "Partner" (Eh, I read this as 'I'm a VT. Mason is my partner.') [On a side note, I think a scum-MS would have addressed this 'partner' concern. This word could go either way alignment-wise].
3) Pre-flipped associative tells.

[Peabody]

That being said, Shinobi gives me town vibes from 75 and in his subsequent posting. As in, I wanted someone to counter BBT's 'certain' case, and here comes Shinobi. My reservation on Shinobi goes as far as when he says:

That's some pretty blatant rolefishing.

regarding GM's question and not placing a vote on Zeb.

Josh_B gives me slight town vibes from 137. I admit it could be due to posting style.

GM

- I don't know how to read her until she reads the thread.

Malakittens

- I played a game with her recently where she relied heavily on meta, but ended up as scum. I don't know how a town-Mala plays yet.

MS

- Meh, I don't know on this one. As GM said, MS's entrance post did appear manipulative, and his mirror posting made him difficult to read. I like MS's presentation on GM's case, however, I feel that this push is convienent for either scum or town to try, considering it is based on lack of effort GM puts in the game. I have a null/slight town at best on MS.

EspressoDan's 106 is fluff posting. I don't like it.

MS, why are you town reading BBT?
BBT, why are you talking to GM like she's town in 219 when obviously you had some reservations about her after reading 183?

My vote is going right now where my reading is going.

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BBT, why are you talking to GM like she's town in 219 when obviously you had some reservations about her after reading 183?

The answer to your question is on this very page;

I did read your case and I agreed with it. I just don't agree with the conclusion that she is scum because of it.

[Peabody]

What about the case did you agree with?

If you agree with every point and disagree with the conclusion, as you as implying, there is a reason you decided A doesn't equal B.

Can you explain why A (MS's case on GM) doesn't mean B (GM is scum)?

[nopointinactingup]

This is a flimsy argument on Day1, since it depends not only on MS being scum first (which is highly unlikely), but also that scum actually defends their partners at all (which is 50-50 at best).

We've only got 5 pages. Are you expected a rock-solid case by now? Please.

Why is it highly unlikely that MS is scum?

Because there's no scum motivation in doing something like that. It is clear that he wrote the "partner" intentionally for some kinda gambit. But since there's no reason for scum to do that at all, chances are he's town unless he's incredibly manipulative. Even then, he would face controversy surrounding his post, so I'm more inclined that it's a anti-town, but town move.

You both soft-defended each other. It's quite plausible that you're both scum.

Define soft defend. Why would scum more likely to soft defend each other and not just outright defend or outright distance each other?

I couldn't find the reason for why MS voted Zeb. Therefore, I asked (tongue-in-cheek) if he was voting him for his bad grammar as that was the only *reason* I could see. I have seen plenty of scummy behaviour from MS so far, and have stated such things in 72.

I'll state this part again to avoid any confusion. I do not think MS is scum

solely based on his soft-defend

of you. I also

do not think

that would be a valid reason on it's own to lynch somebody.

BUT

, it can become useful later in the game due to flips/NK's. Capiche?

There you are stating my point. You are not entirely sure about MS-scum, yet you're linking him to buddies. It sounded much like feign tunneling to me. Furthermore I don't agree with your other reasoning, town are not afraid of pressure so are more likely to gambit and vote hop. Scums normally just wants to lay low and cruise through.

I get that it's ridiculous, but you were pointing out his likelihood of being scum in a wishy washy manner, not his supposedly ludicrous manipulative attempts. DO you find any scum motivation behind the post?

If I didn't then I'd hardly be likely to say I'd thought he could be Scum, would I?

I think it was the way the "Why?" came after the vote rather than after the quote. Like he needed an excuse for joining an rvs wagon. It just didn't seem to flow.

No it was rather a serious vote.

Which you oddly have yet to really explain, afaik.

And why do I have to explain Huntress's imagination?

On another note, BBT is looking more contributive so I'll give him more leeway.
GM's OMGUS on MS is just bad. I'm willing to lynch her but I'd rather gain more in the day.

Unvote.Vote:Huntress