433: Dry, bland, generic mafia: Game Over

[Pie_is_good]

Oh, nonono. You were absolutely right to adress my post. I was just responding.


MOD EDIT:
Off the mark: 1 (ces)

Kilmentator: 5 (Pete d, off the mark, inhim, superstring gorckat)

Eletriar 1 (the fonz)
inhim: 2 (Daquian IH)
CES: 1 (Pie)

[inHimshallibe]

Alright, so the replacements have had a lot of their say as far as review goes.

And, even with it, I still want to lynch kilmenator. IH, I guess fault me for not knowing The Fonz "uses metas more," but I think in this game he's scummy for pushing his argument for so long. It just cries of a desperate attempt.

But, I have been wrong before, and kilmenator just seems to be the better choice for Today because of some coattail riding, which I will gladly take care of with a Day 1 lynch. That's why my vote is where it is.

[IH]

Man, IH is now looking scummy to me after that argument. Perhaps I am just paranoid.

1

Dodgy was clearly certifiably nuts, so I don't know how much analysis of his posts is helpful. From my read-through, I got the feeling he was just plain pissed off about the suspicion he was getting from Fonz and Dasquain.

2

Now, if he was mafia, why he would he get pissed off enough to quit the game over being "found out"? It doesn't make sense to get pissed off over your opponent's good play unless you are 5 years old.

3

The scenario of Dodgy being pro-town and getting pissed about Fonz's "scumtrap" seems more logical to me. I could be totally wrong, like I said it is tough to analyze the postings of a crazy man. If he is scum, then he is INCREDIBLY immature and I guess I just like to give people a little more credit than that - even people who are nuts.

It also doesn't help, from my perspective, that IH is defending other people who have tripped my scumdar, Nanook and Kilem.

1.Dodgy wasn't lying about his experience. He has been here this long. So he should not have acted like that.

2.WIFOM, this is null imo, especially with some of the arguments Dodgy was throwing around.

3.They were logical points, and not a "scumtrap", clearly you did not read those posts.

Pie's post 323 looked logical to me.

And, even with it, I still want to lynch kilmenator. IH, I guess fault me for not knowing The Fonz "uses metas more," but I think in this game he's scummy for pushing his argument for so long. It just cries of a desperate attempt.

Yes, it seemed desperate, yet the whole time he did not use an illogical argument, he did not back down and stood by his stance, did he not? Not to mention that points and arguments he brought up in the beginning of the game.

[NanookTheWolf]

From what I've read of Kilm .. I don't so much see him as scummy as I do in need of replacement. When I originally signed up for this game, I should've checked the initial date on the first post .. didn't think it dragged on so much.

The Fonz hasn't posted either, which still baffles me ..

and

Dasquin has been a bit quiet as well. There may be others, but the above three I took most notice to.

Maybe all this relates to the weekend, or maybe I should've checked the VLA thread before posting this. I think we need some more activity if we plan to get anywhere.

[Dasquian]

Jeeze, I posted last friday and didn't have access over the weekend, so sue me for not posting yesterday

I'll admit the large number of replacements have thrown me for six a little - what with the weird start to the game, and the lull while a number of people vanished and got replaced, it almost feels like I'm playing a different game.

I too am a bit confused as to where the Fonz went. He was one of the best contributors and I got a good town reading from him so I'm really hoping he reappears. gorckat recently has also been giving me a town vibe, and Off the Mark has done nothing I would carry over my suspicion of thorgot onto - I am inclined to think that, whatever his alignment, thorgot was simply very detached from the game.

CES really, really needs to get more involved in the game. As Pie pointed out, it makes more sense for him to lie low as scum than town, and in any case, being quiet isn't helpful. That said, I

still

don't think we should press him today and so I was suspicious of Nanook for reopening that debate, and Pie and IH for eagerly following it with a vote. Perhaps this is something the replacements are seeing for the first time as a good, fresh case, but in my view of things, it's been debated and is best left alone for today at least.

It feels like I need to hear more from pete d and superstring, who are dropping off my radar.

Seeing as kilmenator is already at lynch -2, I won't move my vote there but as someone I had vague scum-feelings from early that I never could quite place, and a bunch of people I have town vibes voting for her, I'm happy to see pressure there. She definitely needs to reappear or be replaced, but in either case I think she should acknowledge the fact she

is

two away from a lynch with at least my vote being held off ready to make it lynch -1, and defend herself accordingly.

[The Fonz]

Well, I'm back (see V/LA for why I haven't been posting). I've been keeping my counsel here in part, waiting for the replacements to come out with some content, and in part it's thrown me that everyone I suspect seems to get replaced shortly after.

Unvote

I'm really not buying the Kilm wagon. It seems it began with him being attacked for following me in supporting waggoning CES to claim. The accusation was that he seemed to be pretty much blindly following me. This concerns me, since there seemed to be plenty of people willing to jump in in a similar manner on the opposite side of that argument, and few of them seem to be receiving the same scrutiny. Kilm's position may have had someone else defending it forcefully, but it wasn't an easy or popular one to take. Since then the bandwagon seems to have built on her for non-contribution, and that tends not to be a scumtell in non-newbs.

Of course, I'm not ruling out the following series of events: Kilm is scum and knows I'm town, notices that I'm putting myself in the firing line bigtime by pushing an unpopular cause and thinks my lynch is likely, and wants to make herself look good by opposing a town wagon. But that still, at worst, makes it a null-tell. It's definitely not something I'd use to support her lynch unless there was a decent amount of other scummy behaviour from that direction, and there just isn't.

If we're talking blindly following experienced players, try Sweenytodd on for size. I unvoted upon his replacement, but combine InHim's 'I think this day has run its course' when the mod had just told us there's another replacement coming who won't be able to contribute immediately, and saying he would be happy, albeit with warning, to hammer someone on whom he hasn't even attempted to state a case, and he looks scummy as anything. He stated that he found me more town now due to my responses, but what on Earth happened to his suspicions of pete d?

@InHim: Please put in order of most-least likely to be scum

and why

:

Me
Pete
OTM
Kilmenator

Vote: inHimshallibe

[The Fonz]

EBWODP:

that 'it begins with him being attacked' ought to be, of course, 'it begins with

her

...'

[Off the Mark]

2.WIFOM, this is null imo, especially with some of the arguments Dodgy was throwing around.

WIFOM applies to scum posting within the game who are trying to be deceitful. You can't use it in regard to meta-game actions, like quitting and throwing a hissyfit. Sure it's possible Dodgy was still "playing" the game throughout his whole tantrum, but I don't find that likely.

3.They were logical points, and not a "scumtrap", clearly you did not read those posts.

WOW RUDE

I read through the entire thread, bub. All the logical points were building off the suspicion generated by the scumtrap. There was a whole avalanche of arguing there, but the scumtrap was the snowball that started it.

If we're talking blindly following experienced players, try Sweenytodd on for size. I unvoted upon his replacement, but combine InHim's 'I think this day has run its course' when the mod had just told us there's another replacement coming who won't be able to contribute immediately, and saying he would be happy, albeit with warning, to hammer someone on whom he hasn't even attempted to state a case, and he looks scummy as anything.

QFT.

FOS: inhimshallibe

- but not enough to change my vote. I have read other games with kilm in them, and her behavior here is quite different.

[Off the Mark]

Crap, shoulda previewed. That sub-quoted section beginning with "WIFOM applies" is my response to IH's first quote. Bleh, sorry.

[IH]

I read through the entire thread, bub. All the logical points were building off the suspicion generated by the scumtrap. There was a whole avalanche of arguing there, but the scumtrap was the snowball that started it.

I never saw a scumtrap. Would you quote it for me this is what I was questioning and saying you didn't read about.

[Off the Mark]

Post 39:

Nowhere in particular. But Dodgy's complete overreaction was exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for when placing my third vote. I can't speak for Dasquian, as I probably wouldn't have placed that vote.

Plus, Dasquian's quickly following-on with the fourth vote allows us to have the mini equivalent of the 'second vote debate' in newbies.

Unvote

Vote: Dodgy

That's a scumtrap.

[IH]

Actually no it's not. They were talknig of starting the game off. He wasn't specifically making a trap, he was bandwagoning to get the game started with conversation about the wagon.

In other words, random voting leads to those sort of reactions and therefore he was expecting this.

This is what is generally going to happen in games, and if he had read a bunch of other games, this would be what he would expect.

Don't believe me? Go read some older games.

[Off the Mark]

Now you're just talking semantics. To me, if I take an action while looking for a specific reaction from scum, that's a scumtrap.

[Dasquian]

Can only agree with Off the Mark here. It might not have been the world's best scumtrap, but it was certainly presented and acted upon as being one.

[gorckat]

I've been re-reading the first few pages as I've had time today...this really is a new game like whoever said theat earlier. Only 5/6 of the original 12 are still here.

@IH: Are you suggesting Fonz was looking to label whomever reacted to his vote as scum?

[IH]

Now you're just talking semantics. To me, if I take an action while looking for a specific reaction from scum, that's a scumtrap.

No, I did not say a specific reaction. I said a reaction like that, which starts conversation.

From the context that Fonz used it in, I can tell you that was most definitely not a scum trap.

Read it again.

Nowhere in particular.

But Dodgy's complete overreaction was exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for when placing my third vote

. I can't speak for Dasquian, as I probably wouldn't have placed that vote.

Plus, Dasquian's quickly following-on with the fourth vote allows us to have the mini equivalent of the 'second vote debate' in newbies.

Unvote

Vote: Dodgy

It was the kind of thing he was hoping for. What would have happened had Dodgy not responded in the way? The game would have stalled.

Also, even if it was a scumtrap, I fail to see how that indicates alignment.....

[Off the Mark]

This whole discussion is a useless tangent. I was just pissed that you accused me of not reading the posts.

The reason is could be an alignment indicator, is because Dodgy got pissed. And it makes more sense, to me, to get pissed when you are a townie stumbling into another townie's scumtrap (perhaps a poorly planned one) and then as a result Fonz says "Haha look who I caught!" But it is also a possibility that Dodgy is simply a sore loser and he got pissed for being legitimately found out as scum. That seems incredibly immature, like I said.

[inHimshallibe]

Yes, it seemed desperate, yet the whole time he did not use an illogical argument, he did not back down and stood by his stance, did he not? Not to mention that points and arguments he brought up in the beginning of the game.

He didn't back down, true, which is part of why (as I mentioned with my unvote) I backed off for

Today

. But, anyone can make a logical argument, not just the Town.

If we're talking blindly following experienced players, try Sweenytodd on for size. I unvoted upon his replacement, but combine InHim's 'I think this day has run its course' when the mod had just told us there's another replacement coming who won't be able to contribute immediately, and saying he would be happy, albeit with warning, to hammer someone on whom he hasn't even attempted to state a case, and he looks scummy as anything. He stated that he found me more town now due to my responses, but what on Earth happened to his suspicions of pete d?

Pretty sure my suspicions of pete d have been right where I left them. But good job trying to clear your partner's name, again. Also, I don't believe I said you were "more town" but rather that I'd let you be for Today.

Yeah, I'll hammer pretty much anyone. I don't feel it's necessary to have a case for the sake of gaining information. I do make exceptions... sometimes...

@InHim: Please put in order of most-least likely to be scum and why:

Me
Pete
OTM
Kilmenator

Eh, maybe if I feel it's justified.

[pete d]

I'm still here, sorry for not posting much (check sig). I don't really feel like I have much to add at the moment. I don't have enough time to go through a detailed analysis of recent posts; I'm still happy with my vote on kilm. I will be able to post more in a fortnight exactly. Until then I'll try to keep track of the game.

[kilmenator]

I am here, and I do know that I am at lynch minus 2 but I do not really see the case for myself. I will have to catch up, tonight... I will...

[IH]

The reason is could be an alignment indicator, is because Dodgy got pissed. And it makes more sense, to me, to get pissed when you are a townie stumbling into another townie's scumtrap (perhaps a poorly planned one) and then as a result Fonz says "Haha look who I caught!" But it is also a possibility that Dodgy is simply a sore loser and he got pissed for being legitimately found out as scum. That seems incredibly immature, like I said.

No, thats not why he got mad. He repeatedly stated he got mad because a more inexperienced player was accusing him of things.

Also don't take things so seriously.

Would anyone like to post a case on Kilemnator?

[NanookTheWolf]

The only case I see against Kilm is that he's posted a total of 5 times since May 14th, all consisting of 2 sentences or less, and his last two posts both stated that he'd read the thread and get back to us .. One on May 30th, the other today.

I'm sure there are other reasons prior in the game, but from what I see of a quick glance of just his posts, that's what I got.

[kilmenator]

Ok, so as I said before, I am extremely busy, and really should be working on finishing my grades for the grade books being that they are due friday, and I have not had near enough time to get everything done... plus, my wedding anniversary was this weekend, and my brother in law just moved from Kelona, BC to Columbus, OH and we had to help with that... so needless to say, I have been extremely busy... but.. my promised catch up...

Ok, so from what I can see, I am catching up from about page 9ish, it seems that most of of the posts from page 9-11 were mostly about CES and the retraction of the claim. I still stand by my opinion that CES should truly claim, because if he is outed, then it is his predecessors doing. But, since this discussion is not getting anywhere, I am willing to just let it go, but the scums are probably going to have a good time trying some WIFOM on us, if in fact CES is not killed.

The person I am most suspicious of right now is Pete D, followed closely by the CES. Here is why...

Pretty much as per my previous post. I think you stayed out of discussion for the most part and haven't commited to anything; your posts in regard to the

CES situation seem to be trying to put pressure on whilst keeping yourself distanced

.

If this is the case against me, you basically just called CES scum, because I am distancing from him... and you think I am scum... that doesnt make much sense at all...
Pete has consistently pushed for me even when I answered his questions, he has also not really outlined a clear case against me, (which granted no one really has to my knowledge, other than the fact that I agreed with the fonz that I thought CES should claim..

unovte:

(if voting) and

vote: pete d

CES- DOdgy was scummy, and then the claim was retracted, and now he is just flying under the radar for the most part, most of his posts have been pretty useless and have added nothing. Also, the LAL applies here for me, because retracting a claim, pretty much means the first player lied, therefore making that person a liar.
And to defend myself...

EBWOP: That should be NK'd, not lynched.

the switch was not necessarily a switch, scum are bound to play WIFOM with us or they are going to kill CES... either way, I wasnt following the Fonz, I was stating my opinions.

The player who is consistently showing up on my scumdar is kilmenator. She has not posted a lot of content and when she does, her suspicions tend to run counter to my own, so that is where I am most comfortable placing my vote.

vote: kilmenator

Like I said, I ahve been busy, so my content has been down, plus I am involved in way to many games at this point, but voting me because my suspicions are not what you think, doesnt make me scum, maybe I just look at things from a different perspecitve. And who is it that I have been suspicious of that you have not thought was suspicious?

I am also suspicious of gorkat who vote hops to much and for hopping on my bandwagon without really outlining a case, or having a case outlined. The only reason I point him out and not everyone else, is because he has consistently vote hopped IMO.

I would echo IH and ask for a case to be outlined against me, it is hard to defend yourself when you dont know what to defend against.

[IH]

The only case I see against Kilm is that he's posted a total of 5 times since May 14th, all consisting of 2 sentences or less, and his last two posts both stated that he'd read the thread and get back to us .. One on May 30th, the other today.

I'm sure there are other reasons prior in the game, but from what I see of a quick glance of just his posts, that's what I got.

So how do we get any information from a crappy reason to lynch, with no useful interactions?

[pete d]

If this is the case against me, you basically just called CES scum, because I am distancing from him... and you think I am scum... that doesnt make much sense at all...

Um, no, what I meant was that you were keeping yourself distanced from the situation, not from him. If I thought CES was scum, I'd say so.

CES- DOdgy was scummy, and then the claim was retracted, and now he is just flying under the radar for the most part, most of his posts have been pretty useless and have added nothing. Also, the LAL applies here for me, because retracting a claim, pretty much means the first player lied, therefore making that person a liar.

So why aren't you voting for CES.

I find kilm suspicious because of the general lack of making arguments against other players, lurking, and I found her posts on CES scummy.