Open 569 ~ Hope + 1 ~ Game Over!

[startfromtheheart]

Steak

[Varsoon]

Votecount?

I'm so disoriented.

[Jakuzure Nonon]

Apologies. I've been one of two things today: Busy or exhausted. I don't have access to the laptop atm. When I do, likely tomorrow after I get up, the OP will be up to date and a VC will be posted

[Team 9]

again this keeps feeling like [redacted] because it's just digging the tunnel deeper into the realm of confbiasing and "well we have the wagon already, might as well use everything to support what i've already said and not consider any other possible scenarios because good job guys this lynch is

locked in

"

I'm the one early in this game who broke the sakura/tn tunnel war by making them consider any other possible scenarios. Do you seriously think i haven't considered other possibility while I was on the bulge?

Throughout my push on him me and pieguy always paused time to time to see if our reasoning is going to the wrong direction, talked about if bulge's posts could be coming from town and if it can come from town with which mindset could it come from, etc. That's why we were always on sync when we were pushing him even though the speed of the push was very fast. I would c/p the entire damn conversation with pie if mod would allow that and show everyone our effort and dare them to prove our reasoning wrong.

We are already aware that the bulge is having trouble with communicating his points.
We are aware that he is most likely to misinterpret our posts and we are also most likely to misinterpret his. We are are also aware that the bulge's rage is very likely to be genuine. However, rage coming from miscommunication is hardly a town-rage. That kind of rage happens regardless of alignment and I'm keep feeling like you guys are just going "omg bulge is town" because of that genuine rage alone. And honestly, that frustrates me greatly. Also I once thought if this is happening because bulge's english is not very good. But he's Canadian. He should be good with English. So then what am I doing wrong? Is my English too bad to properly communicate my opinion to him? Afaik, when I speak, people understand. So I don't think that's a problem. Then where is it going wrong? I know. If bulge would actually TELL ME which posts I am "misreping", then I'll know!

Also, take a look at the bulge's posts so far. "That's not what I said." "That's not what I meant." Well how the hell do I know what he actually meant when that's all he said as every damn time and said assay nothing else? I even threw a recap time to time to show him what I was talking about and he just calls it flawed and.... that's it. Well I'm pretty sure that's not how mafia works and unless the bulge is a complete newbie, he knows that that's not how mafia works too. That's one of the reason why I think he is scum. I think he is deliberately avoiding addressing them by using a "ooh misrep" card. I honestly still don't know how the misunderstanding about the validity of my hypothetical scenario leads to his post calling that I scumread those three names because lurking. When I ask him to explain he just yells "OMG IT WAS A MISUNDERSTANDING OK???" Well guess what. It doesn't explain it. Few pages ago, when I asked him to clarify what he meant about distancing stuff he changed his words on (hell I didn't even accused him for it this time.) He just goes "MISREP" and when I quoted it for him, he goes like "OMG DONT QUOTE THAT". Well, what the fuck? What am I supposed to think of that? Am I supposed to treat that response as town? If town, what kind of mindset can it ever come from? I literally have zero fucking clue. So it is natural for me to think that the response is probably from scum. "Caught scum flailing." Yeah that explains it pretty well.

"Oh team 9 is tunneling on the bulge" Well fuck them. They didn't even try to tell us why our points are wrong. Hell, for an example, ns even said that he doesn't disagree with us yet called bulge town for "lolsheepbins" and even dared to bring up the vote bet which I take very seriously. I am being labeled as a fucking tunneler when they don't even bother with the points I'm making. At least, when I broke sakura/tn tunnel, I gave them a reason why they should reconsider. I'm not one of those people who goes "but but" after my points gets satisfyingly disproven. I am always willing to talk, discuss, and argue. But what is this shit? Not saying shit when I progress on my push on him only to frame me as some mindless tunneler. FROM MY FUCKING TOWNREADS. Do you know how that feels like? It feels like I'm being stabbed on my back by my family. It feels very bitter and betraying. I am literally shedding tears as I'm writing this piece of my mind.

So this is my ultimatum/final reachout or whatever. You think I'm wrong? Then help me see the right way. Address my posts and explain them to me how those posts can come from town and more likely to come from town. Address the contradictions I mentoned and explain them to me how they are actually not a contradiction and I was missing some obvious points. Otherwise,

SHUT THE FUCK UP AND STAY OUT OF MY DAMN WAY

This has been GIF posting, with teardrops of mixed feelings of disappointment, frustration, betrayal, and just pure sadness. Thank you for reading my humble rambling.

-Cirno

[22]

[Sakura Hana]

ITT: Marquiffy is a jerk.

[Team 9]

I prefer white pls.

[Sakura Hana]

In any case if anyone had any doubts to PieInNatirasha's towniness before that wall then they certainly wont have any doubts now, and if they still do then I question their towniness.

[Varsoon]

D:
Dat's not Giffy.

[Jakuzure Nonon]

VOTE COUNT

1.39

(0) tn5421:

(1) SXTLHGaiden:

davesaz

(0) startfromtheheart:

(0) 22:

(1) Varsoon:

startfromtheheart

(0) Sakura Hana:

(2) Thesp:

Bins, 22

(L-2) The Bulge:

Thesp, Team 9, Sakura Hana, Varsoon, tn5421

(1) Team 9:

The Bulge

(1) davesaz:

SXTLHGaiden

(0) Flubbernugget:

(0) notscience:

(1) Bins:

Flubbernugget

(0) No Lynch:

Not Voting:

notscience

With thirteen alive, it takes seven to lynch. The day will end on

Monday, September 8th, 2014 @ 11:34pm PDT,

which is in

(expired on 2014-09-09 02:34:00).

I'm currently dealing with mental health issues (aka depression) for the past few days. This really shouldn't have any impact on how frequent the votecounts are, but in case it does, you'll know why. I will try my best to get at least one a day, however.

[davesaz]

it seems we have some new people.
hello.
i am the embodiment of fluff.

Please do us all a favor and pull your head out. Or replace out if you're not going to play.
If you're not hunting scum, then you're scum.
I don't know why the rest of y'all are willing to just let this go by.

[Team 9]

team 9 hydra tunnels on bulge
i like bulge's responses to tunneling
i do not like hydra's attitude toward bulge
i decide to not want to interact with hydra much yet
you are part of hydra
i do not want to interact with you much yet
talk to majiffy
peace out

ok let me get a few things straight here

1. we are not tunneling. if you had actually took the time to read the thread, or even tried to look through our ISO at all, you would know this

2. GIF just said we are not tunneling, and, as I said, if you were legitimately trying to sort us, you could easily look and find it out. however, your reaction to that was to completely blow it off. why?

3. I have already said I am not trying to convince you. rather, the point of the question was so that I could get a read on you. I fail how to see how you can supposedly have such a large townread on Bulge based on his posts immediately when you replaced in, to the point where when us, Sakura, and other people directly link back to the arguments made against Bulge (all of which were before you replaced in), you outright say you don't care about anything that happened before you replace in and that your read on him is that strong already.

so, if you're town, please walk me through why you immediately decided so confidently Bulge is town. ignoring me is not an option, whether you like it or not

4. us, Sakura, and other ppl have all linked to evidence for Bulge-scum all of which were before you replaced in. what is the purpose in discarding it, just because "I'm not reading anything before I replaced in"? if you think Bulge is town, it should not be hard to comment on where we went wrong with our argument.

as GIF said, we have sat around forever trying to figure out where we went wrong and we can't find any - so I challenge you to find one bc both of us are feeling v confident about this.

I want to believe you're town, but this is ridiculous. there so many off notes with you and you just entered the game. you ignoring me when I'm trying to get a read on you isn't helping, and I will not accept "lolhydra" as an excuse.

-Rumia

[Team 9]

ITT: Marquiffy is a jerk.

I think he's just scum

I wanna see his response to my questions before necessarily solidifying the read. there's a pattern I'm noticing about his play (which he's done in just about every post here) which I think he'll break sooner or later if he's actually town.

atm I think {Bulge, 22, Gaiden} are most likely to be scum. even if this angle with 22 turns out to be a dead end, we have a lot of townreads of varying degrees elsewhere

-Rumia

[davesaz]

Not sure how you see it as self serving. I may be least active in terms of total post count, but that's because I'm incapable of posting fluff. Look inside my iso and you'll see .

I'm not persuaded.

Are you still happy with your vote on SXTLHGaiden? Why or why not?

As a matter of fact, I am quite satisfied with it. Gaiden is taking great care to post enough to not be force replaced, but doing absolutely nothing pro-town. The only activity worth the name is an OMGUS on me, once it became clear my RVS vote had turned into a real read. Since it seems unlikely that anyone is going to care about this, I suppose I'll eventually drop it and move on. Though the "told you so" will be very sweet if Gaiden turns up scum later. Some might say I could make an equal case for notscience or startfromtheheart. At least they're showing some real activity. Not much, but some.

I have a serious problem with the Bulge wagon. The Bulge claimed that the V/LA time wasn't just limited access, it was next to no access. I know exactly what that is like, have been in similar situations myself. Team 9's case started off being about inactivity, and then turned nasty when Bulge made a mistake, retracted it, and then screwed up an explanation of the retraction. I don't think it's my place to repair the issue, but I'm not convinced at all by Team 9's argument. Lack of eloquence doesn't necessarily equal scumminess.

I agree with an earlier comment (perhaps by you) that having so much posting actually makes it easier for scum to hide. I stated already, at least one scum is certainly active, and I'd be very surprised if they're not among the most active. Having such a deluge of material to wade through will make it very hard to find the lies, and having probtown shoot themselves in the foot isn't going to make it any easier.

If I were to take body of work into account, at this point in time I'd say that Sakura makes sense for scum. This is not based on specific posts, just a general feel based on all the "Team 9 is town and so am I -- you'd better not disagree with us" type material. (note, this may have never been said -- I'm not quoting tonight because I'm in a hurry)

[davesaz]

And now, in a separate post on why I'm in a hurry.
I fly back to the US from China tomorrow. About 24 hours with spotty to no internet, followed by another 12 glued to my wife and kids. I need to try to sleep, the alarm is set for 4am local. (8pm when posting this)

[Team 9]

Team 9's case started off being about inactivity, and then turned nasty when Bulge made a mistake, retracted it, and then screwed up an explanation of the retraction. I don't think it's my place to repair the issue, but I'm not convinced at all by Team 9's argument. Lack of eloquence doesn't necessarily equal scumminess.

this is not how our case went at all

the first point was not inactivity, but the way he acted while he actually was here: doing nothing (my point)

the next point was, after we said we had a POE scumread on him, the way he was using his lack of content as a shield from suspicion (both me and GIF's point). this is completely different from the fact that he was inactive. I think you're either remembering wrong and/or misinterpreting our posts.

-Rumia

[davesaz]

But my point is that he was not here. You're saying he was doing nothing during a time when he wasn't even here.

[davesaz]

Now if you want to say he's done nothing but defend since being attacked, that's a completely different argument.

[Team 9]

But my point is that he was not here. You're saying he was doing nothing during a time when he wasn't even here.

We have never said the bulge Is scum for not doing anything. In fact, we called him out for him trying to call our reasoning for initial scumread on him as that. (Remember the PoE?)

[Team 9]

These 3 are scum
Because they are lurky and apathetic

Well this whole thing is wrong here bc as I said I don't have them as scum because they're lurking but rather it is coincidental that my "non-townreads" happen to be lurkers bc I have a varying degrees of town on everyone else, hence my emphasis on "PoE".

See?

[Team 9]

But my point is that he was not here. You're saying he was doing nothing during a time when he wasn't even here.

no, the point with that was he made like 7 or 8 posts while he was V/LA. and none of them had anything in them

by itself, it wasn't a strong point nor was it intended to be (I just mentioned it bc it was the first thing I picked up on re: Bulge). but regardless, it still doesn't have any effect on the 2nd point which is where the real case started: the part where he started using his lack of content as a shield once we announced we had a POE scumread on him

-Rumia

[Team 9]

ninja'd by GIF gg

-Rumia

[Team 9]

What kind of "not doing anything" are we talking about here?
As in inactiveness or as in contentlessness?

Dave seems to speak about inactiveness. I talked about inactiveness. Pie talked about contentless.
This need to be clarified before this doesn't end up wrong.

[Thesp]

Not sure how you see it as self serving. I may be least active in terms of total post count, but that's because I'm incapable of posting fluff. Look inside my iso and you'll see .

I'm not persuaded.

Are you still happy with your vote on SXTLHGaiden? Why or why not?

As a matter of fact, I am quite satisfied with it. Gaiden is taking great care to post enough to not be force replaced, but doing absolutely nothing pro-town. The only activity worth the name is an OMGUS on me, once it became clear my RVS vote had turned into a real read. Since it seems unlikely that anyone is going to care about this, I suppose I'll eventually drop it and move on. Though the "told you so" will be very sweet if Gaiden turns up scum later. Some might say I could make an equal case for notscience or startfromtheheart. At least they're showing some real activity. Not much, but some.

I have a serious problem with the Bulge wagon. The Bulge claimed that the V/LA time wasn't just limited access, it was next to no access. I know exactly what that is like, have been in similar situations myself. Team 9's case started off being about inactivity, and then turned nasty when Bulge made a mistake, retracted it, and then screwed up an explanation of the retraction. I don't think it's my place to repair the issue, but I'm not convinced at all by Team 9's argument. Lack of eloquence doesn't necessarily equal scumminess.

I agree with an earlier comment (perhaps by you) that having so much posting actually makes it easier for scum to hide. I stated already, at least one scum is certainly active, and I'd be very surprised if they're not among the most active. Having such a deluge of material to wade through will make it very hard to find the lies, and having probtown shoot themselves in the foot isn't going to make it any easier.

If I were to take body of work into account, at this point in time I'd say that Sakura makes sense for scum. This is not based on specific posts, just a general feel based on all the "Team 9 is town and so am I -- you'd better not disagree with us" type material. (note, this may have never been said -- I'm not quoting tonight because I'm in a hurry)

I disagree with you on The Bulge, and I could be convinced on Sakura (but I think there are plenty in line ahead of her), but I really like this post. I agree with you on SXTLHGaiden, and if my vote weren't on The Bulge (which I'm quite happy with), it'd likely be on SXTLHGaiden.

(Have a safe trip!)

---

SXTLHGaiden

, are you happy with your vote on davesaz? Why or why not?

[Bins]

davesaz's opinion on the Bulge wagon is very similar to how I feel.


I don't think 22 is scum.