Mini 451 - Totally Awesome Mafia, Game Over

[Off the Mark]

Are you saying that lurker wagons are bad, or that you saying something makes it true? I know you are wrong about the former, and also the latter by extension, but I was wondering.

I think he's just jokin' around.

[Off the Mark]

Well, scum haven't piled on to N-L, so either he really is scum, or scum are being very cautious and taking their time. (or scum are already voting for N-L, but I don't think this is the case, at least not all of em)

[Off the Mark]

Sorry for the triple post, just realized that Papaya cast vote #5 and Highland Sage unvoted Lowell. So we do have a little movement here... something to think about.

[Hjallti]

Here is an analysis

First of all I think Nekka's behaviour is very newbie, so I wouldn't have a clue if it is bad town play or bad scum play. After reading through everything I don't suspect him any longer at this point.

This leaves us a game with not a lot to talk about: the reactions on Nekka's play seem ordinary, and leaving them away there is only one theme discussed: alleged lurking.

I got a little upset because I did follow the rules (saying that a absency should be PM'd to the Mod rather than being announced publicly), and already after 1 day playing I'm called to duty, while I already did post.

So the only scummy thing around so far, IMHO, is that someone using the difference between number of replies (reply 46, while mine was 17) and time to reply maybe, makes a strange comment only 20 hours! after my random vote:

Off the Mark post 46:

We haven't heard anything from this guy, except for his intial random vote, so I'm going to Vote: hjallti just to get him talking.

This seems to me very odd!
The rather strange remarks from him afterwards let me vote for him! (to let him speak )
By the way note that this is not OMGUS, first of all he is not voting for me, and moreover my point is that he clearly wants to point to my absence at a moment I had played in the last 24 hours!

vote: Off the Mark

[Off the Mark]

Here is an analysis

First of all I think Nekka's behaviour is very newbie, so I wouldn't have a clue if it is bad town play or bad scum play. After reading through everything I don't suspect him any longer at this point.

You don't? I can see how you could say "he looks suspicious, but I'm leaning towards newb" but to flat out say you don't suspect him any longer is just plain weird to me. Strike one.

I got a little upset because I did follow the rules (saying that a absency should be PM'd to the Mod rather than being announced publicly), and already after 1 day playing I'm called to duty, while I already did post.

Here's the thing - there's really no reason to get "upset" unless you are mafia and you feel that you have been found out despite following the rules and notifying the mod. In my experience, townies usually say, "Sorry I have been away!" But to get emotional about it seems like a scum reaction. Strike two.

So the only scummy thing around so far, IMHO, is that someone using the difference between number of replies (reply 46, while mine was 17) and time to reply maybe, makes a strange comment only 20 hours! after my random vote:

I wasn't "using" anything. Everyone had contributed except you and CTD, so I decided to vote one of you to spark a reaction. (and BOY is that working well)

my point is that he clearly wants to point to my absence at a moment I had played in the last 24 hours!

vote: Off the Mark

Dude, look. We were barely out of the random voting stage. You are acting like having one vote on you is some kind of major insult. It's just 1 vote! This is overdefensiveness to the max. Do you

really

feel my actions are scummy? Putting one vote on you to get you talking? That happens all the time, in every game I play/read! And you are reacting as if this is something only a scum would dare to do... again, very weird reaction. Overdefensiveness = Strike three.

unvote: Nekka-Lucifer
vote: Hjallti

I am more confident of your scumminess than his, since he could just be a nutty newbie. Another thing that is influencing this vote is something I am not sure it is cool to discuss. I won't say too much, but just think about the motivation behind post 112. I think that post is more likely if hjallti is scum.

[Lowell]

^^^^^

Agreed,

unvote, vote hjallti

[Nekka-Lucifer]

Nekka, you use too much WIFOM. Stop, please.

What's WIFOM?

The only way he really is scum is that he has simply given up and is posting absolute crap.

lol, can't wait till I know the game so much that I can actually do that if I were scum

Dude, look. We were barely out of the random voting stage. You are acting like having one vote on you is some kind of major insult. It's just 1 vote! This is overdefensiveness to the max. Do you

really

feel my actions are scummy? Putting one vote on you to get you talking? That happens all the time, in every game I play/read! And you are reacting as if this is something only a scum would dare to do... again, very weird reaction. Overdefensiveness = Strike three.

unvote: Nekka-Lucifer
vote: Hjallti

^^^^^

Agreed,

unvote, vote hjallti

I respect Off the Mark seeing me as pro-town (which I am) but this post makes me think he's scum, he was looking for many TINY things that look the slightest amount of scummy ever, he is voting Hjallti for feeling I'm pro-town, he/she was only saying he/she was a little upset... I think it was probably just a small pro-town mistake or a misinterpreted about people 'accusing' them on lurking, I think that's what it was.. I may have to check over it again, ...

Lowell though, just says Agreed and votes for him/her, without any comments or proof...

And, for that, also CrashTextDummie doesn't seem as suspicous now,

Unvote: CrashTextDummie Vote: Off the Mark

[Off the Mark]

OK now I am pretty dang sure I was right about the 2-scum scenario I posted earlier. N-L and hjallti are both guilty, folks.

[Off the Mark]

Just to clarify my suspicions here:

I respect Off the Mark seeing me as pro-town (which I am) but this post makes me think he's scum

This statement makes NO sense. If you were really a townie who believed I was scum, then you believe that I

know

who is pro-town and who else is scum. It is a complete contradiction to say you respect my opinion but you think I'm scum. If I was scum and you were town, my opinion should be garbage to you because all my suspicions would be fake.

I think it was probably just a small pro-town mistake or a misinterpreted about people 'accusing' them on lurking, I think that's what it was.. I may have to check over it again

This stinks of scum protecting scum, and I don't think I've ever seen it more obviously. Including the superfluous "I may have to check it over again" to try to make it look like he is honestly evaluating. Please.

[Stewie]

Nekka, you use too much WIFOM. Stop, please.

What's WIFOM?

Wine In Front Of Me. It refers to a movie where the good guy puts a glass of wine in front of the villain, and one in front of himself, and tells the villain that one of the glasses has poison in it. The villain proceeds to try to think it through the following way: "Obviously, the one in front of me is poisoned. Unless of course, you predicted me thinking this and switched the glasses so that the one in front of me is not poisoned, therefore I should drink this one. Of course, you could have foreseen that I would have figured this out and switched the glasses so that once again, the one in front of me is poisoned..."

The argument goes like that basically forever.

[NabakovNabakov]

^^^Way to take all the fun out of The Princess Bride
And OTM was right when he said I was just joking with you. I'll admit that I'm fallible.............................................but only sometimes.


@Hjallti: Ok man, that's cool. Now that we know you can't post on weekends, you should get harrased for it far less, but using an entire post (your first really substantial post) on defending yourself looks suspicious. I'm more interested in what you have to say about

other

people in the game.


@Nekka-Lucifer, why did you vote Off The Mark instead of Lowell? OTM may have been grasping at straws, but Lowell just jumped in afterwards without even putting effort into it. If you were going to vote one of them, why the one actually seems (emphasis on seems) to care about catching scum rather than the guy who just hops his vote?

Vote: Lowell

for phoning it in and hopping repeatedly.

[Nekka-Lucifer]

Nekka, you use too much WIFOM. Stop, please.

What's WIFOM?

Wine In Front Of Me. It refers to a movie where the good guy puts a glass of wine in front of the villain, and one in front of himself, and tells the villain that one of the glasses has poison in it. The villain proceeds to try to think it through the following way: "Obviously, the one in front of me is poisoned. Unless of course, you predicted me thinking this and switched the glasses so that the one in front of me is not poisoned, therefore I should drink this one. Of course, you could have foreseen that I would have figured this out and switched the glasses so that once again, the one in front of me is poisoned..."

The argument goes like that basically forever.

Oh yeh, I saw that somewhere and I completely forgot ...

[The Highland Sage]

Looking over Lowell's posts, I see a despicable lack of content, as well as the afformentioned vote hopping. He hadn't been scummy enough last time I put my vote on him to really warrant the vote, but I think he is definately scummy enough now.

Vote: Lowell

[Off the Mark]

post 43, perhaps?

WIFOM = Wine in Front of Me

Is the poison in the wine in front of you or your enemy? Basically, whenever you get into the circular logic of thinking, "acting scummy would be doing X, or maybe scum is doing Y in order to intentionally look townie, or maybe he knows that we'll realize that and he'll really do X" - basically you get stuck in a loop.

[PJ.]

This vote count brought to you by Jack In The Box's Sourdough Ultimate Cheeseburger. Vote Count includes A Papaya's vote on Hjallti two post from now.

~N9V~ - 2(Aimee, Bobbyplump,)
Lowell - 2(The Highland Sage, NabakovNabakov)
Nekka-Lucifer - 3(Stewie, crashtextdummie, ~N9V~)
Off The Mark - 2(Hjallti, Nekka-Lucifer)
Hjallti - 3(Off The Mark, Lowell, A Papaya)

With 12 alive, it takes

7

to lynch.

[Off the Mark]

I am equally certain that Nekka and Hjallti are scum. Lowell, at least seems to agree with me. HS and Nabakov think Lowell is suspicious for agreeing with very little content. I agree that does not look real good, but from my perspective, he is agreeing with my own pro-town argument, so it is hard for me to see him as scummy.

I find it a little odd that Stewie, HS, and Nabakov all posted without much of a response to my N-L & Hjallti scum duo theory. But they can't all be scum, heh, so I guess some of them feel I am grasping at straws. And I was so sure that Nekka's last post was going to be the nail in one of their coffins.

I guess we wait for N9V, Aimee, bobbyplump, and CTD to weigh in. I am willing to switch my vote to Nekka, if the town is still more comfortable with that lynch.

[A Papaya]

^^ Agreed. Off the Mark seems right...on the mark.

Unvote, Vote: Hjallti

Nekka does seem increasingly scummy, however.

[~N9V~]

Lack of content isn't always a scum tell. Also, please point out where you find Hjallti scum.

[NabakovNabakov]

@Off The Mark: I think this is where you first unveiled your N-L+Hjallti theory

Also, he unvotes N-L and changes it to an FOS. This could easily be two scum here. He initially "random" voted N-L to create distance, but when pressure mounted he backed off his vote to "reevaluate". I'm very interested to see what Hjallti has to say later today or tomorrow. I wouldn't bet on this 2-scum scenario being true quite yet, I'm just saying it is possible

I have to say I'm a little surprised you're asking folks to weigh in on this. It's a complete castle in the air if I ever saw one:
You think Nekka-Lucifer is scum because of erratic posting and noobish behavior. (more on this later)
You think Hjallti is scum because he didn't post for a while and when he did, he removed a random vote. Lurking can be pretty conclusively ruled out because the mod backed him up on his excuse, and I don't see how removing a

random

vote in light of 5 new pages of evidence counts as a scum tell. He saw that an apparent innocent was about to be lynched and decided not to be part of it. Your whole argument against Hjallti rests in N-L being scum.
And that's the thing I don't get. You have fixed somewhere in your head that Nekka-Lucifer is 100% homegrown, accept-no-substitutes mafia, and it is obvious that this assumption, which I happen to disagree with, drives the whole thing. Since you seem to have time on your hands, I ask this of you: make a full case on Nekka-Lucifer. Most of his posts have already been picked over, so your job shouldn't be that hard. Condense him into a single post and prove to me that he is scum. Make a concerted argument, not just: "He's scum because this sounds suspicious" or "that's a total scum tell."

Nekka-Lucifer is either a very raw townie or a very smart mafia. I have a sneaking suspicion you'll go into compiling his posts thinking one way and come out thinking the other.

Good Luck

[Off the Mark]

@Nabakov

No, my case against Hjallti does not at all rest on my belief that Nekka is scum. My case against Hjallti is outlined in post 129.

As I have said repeatedly, Nekka has often looked so scummy that I cannot believe he is actually scum. But his recent post, #131, cemented him as scum in my mind. How can you refute my argument about his statement of "I respect your opinion, but I think you are scum."? That just makes no sense at all for a townie to say. But it makes perfect sense for a newbie mafia to say. Don't forget, just because he is an utterly clueless newbie, it does not rule out the fact that he could be an utterly clueless newbie in the mafia.

If anything, my belief that Nekka is scum depends more on Hjallti being scum than the other way around. When I threw out the N-L / Hjallti theory the first time, I was not too confident at all... I just noted it as a possibility. Nekka's post 131 made me much more confident.

[Off the Mark]

Nekka-Lucifer is either a very raw townie or a very smart mafia.

What rules out him being a very raw mafia?

[Stewie]

I find it a little odd that Stewie, HS, and Nabakov all posted without much of a response to my N-L & Hjallti scum duo theory.

I don't respond to baseball analogies.


Seriously though, I think it's more likely for NL to be scum than Hjallti. I do think that there was an overreaction regarding the single vote on him. However, NL voted for several people already (I think it's 7 right now; I lost count) and I think the vote-hopping warrants some attention. As well as other things I and others mentioned. Hjallti may also be scum, but I think NL is scummier, and we can only lynch one person a day.

[CrashTextDummie]

This seems scummish so I think I'll vote: CrashTextDummie
Not only that, he seems to have been reading but not posting (lurker perhaps) I'm not THAT familiar with what scum notifications are but I feel this is quite a strong one... Either that or it was just a mispost

It's clearly not a mispost. Your post is an attempted mischaracterization of my actions though.

I'm currently not interested in Hjallti.

Mod

: I believe your votecount is inaccurate (pretty sure NL unvoted me).

[Hjallti]

So I guess I have to respond to the baseball analogy of Off the Mark, which ends with saying that post 112 made it scummy to him... a vote count? WIDE 1

On strike 1.
I read a game where ~n9v~ lost the game for town by being to overactive as a newbie, I guess the effect of this at the beginning unmotivated pressure on Nekka made him over defensive, as newbies tend to do. I see no proof in his posts that his action do something else than that. Wide 2

On strike 2.
As being a newbie myself, and still getting adjusted to the pace of the game, it indeed was upsetting to me, that after 20 hours already I got this post, it would have been different if it occured on sunday and monday. wide 3

On strike 3
You clearly didn't (want to?) get my point on voting you. I am not voting you for having attacked me, as I explained it was not OMGUS, I voted you for having put up the fog argument that I hadn't played in a long time. Your post was scummy objectively, and is the only scum part we have left if we believe Nekka is town.... Wide 4...

I think it is rather scummy to misphrase arguments and make them sound different...

[Nekka-Lucifer]

@Nabakov

No, my case against Hjallti does not at all rest on my belief that Nekka is scum. My case against Hjallti is outlined in post 129.

As I have said repeatedly, Nekka has often looked so scummy that I cannot believe he is actually scum. But his recent post, #131, cemented him as scum in my mind. How can you refute my argument about his statement of "I respect your opinion, but I think you are scum."? That just makes no sense at all for a townie to say. But it makes perfect sense for a newbie mafia to say. Don't forget, just because he is an utterly clueless newbie, it does not rule out the fact that he could be an utterly clueless newbie in the mafia.

If anything, my belief that Nekka is scum depends more on Hjallti being scum than the other way around. When I threw out the N-L / Hjallti theory the first time, I was not too confident at all... I just noted it as a possibility. Nekka's post 131 made me much more confident.

I still don't see any 1post proof that I'm mafia.. Either he's extremely lazy (which we know he isn't) or he is the mafia... I don't know who with, could be Hjalti for all I know