Open 19 - Nightless (Over?) before 430

[Skruffs]

IH, your post seems to suggest you saw that Occult was an easy target day one - but you still pushed hard for him, even as you say, laying out a case against him. If you were perceptive enough to notice he was an easy target - why did you still push for him? To the point of saying that People voting tony for defending occult were moronic?

[YogurtBandit]

If I had to choose between John and IH, I would pick John. IH isn't the target today really. I will vote YogurtBandit, unless he comes up with some reasons why I shouldn't.

Well, dont vote me because of what John did, John might just have a Scum style of play. Read MY posts, Then decide.

[Romanus]

And Aimee, why can't IH be the target for today? See this is the type of stuff that makes games easy for scum.

If I had to choose between John and IH, I would pick John. IH isn't the target today really. I will vote YogurtBandit, unless he comes up with some reasons why I shouldn't.

[rant]This post reeks of scumminess. You don't have to choose between John and IH. You have the whole town to pick from, but being that if you are scum you want to push some sort of wagon, then yeah, you do have to pick one.

Again, why isn't IH the target for today. Saying crap like this may make you look wise in some people's eyes, but this crap does not impress me, especially when their are people who think IH is the target for today. Anybody and everybody should be considered a target, at all times, especially in this game.

I'll go ahead and supply a reason for you not voting YogurtBandit: He is going to claim he is a townie. You ask no direct question of him, leaving it to him to come up with something out of the blue that you are just going to take apart anyway and use as just more evidence of his scumminess and the rightness of him being the play for today.

No sir, I do not like that post one bit. It is lurking in plain sight at best, and just scummy as hell at the worst. Probably thought it would fly right under the radar, but sorry, we are way to close to a deadline for crap posts like that.

You said something between Jack and squat with that post.[/rant]

Oh and

Vote Aimee

[YogurtBandit]

Romanus is right, Aimee is bandwagoning, Which is a

VERY

well known Scumtell.
You can call this an Omgus Vote, But, leading back to What Romanus said, You are not asking me questions, and anything at all I say will make you think I am scum. Plus, You didnt vote me anyways, So Its not Omgus.

Again, John may have gave you all suspicons of me, But Im not John! See if I am scummy or not. Do not judge me by Johns actions..

Unvote, Vote: Aimee

[Skruffs]

That's interesting.
I don't *See* Aimee voting for anyone right now; I see her giving YogurtMan the equivalent of a Fos with intent to vote.

[YogurtBandit]

That's interesting.
I don't *See* Aimee voting for anyone right now; I see her giving YogurtMan the equivalent of a Fos with intent to vote.

She didn't vote me, but she's basically saying " Im going to bandwagon either IH or Yogurt To make for an easy Lynch" Which then leads to her being Mafia, Getting an Easy NK, and taking the upper hand. Its one of the most common scumtells. If you think Im lying, Look up Scumtells on the Wiki.

[TonyMoonshine]

Getting an Easy NK,

???

[YogurtBandit]

Getting an Easy NK,

???

If she is Mafia, and she Bandwagoned me and caused my Lynch, It would be an Easy NK, For there would be minimal to no suspcion.

[YogurtBandit]

Getting an Easy NK,

???

If she is Mafia, and she Bandwagoned me and caused my Lynch, It would be an Easy NK, For there would be minimal to no suspcion.

EBWOP: Forgot this is Nightless Mafia O.O

[Guardian]

Every game I have been in here so far gets super active when I am in it .

Mod

, a deadline with this kind of activity is ridiculous and only hurts town. Please remove the deadline, as discussion has picked up enormously. And send the cheque for improving activity in your game to the address I provided.

Hmm, loads of stuff to respond to...

Romanus, I just cast a wide net and point out anything I see. You didn't hint as to why those scenarios about me were plausible or which you thought was more likely...

Also:

I don't like this Yogurt Bandit wagon at all. The only argument I have really seen, and repeatedly is that John should have been lynched yesterday, or yesterday we knew he should be lynched today, so, let's lynch him.

The problem with following a script as IH's post was described as, is that it is really easy for scum to just go along with the plan. I am not so much condemning IH for having the plan, as I am pointing the finger at people who are simply parroting IH to get an easy Yogurt lynch.

IH IS NOT pushing for the YB lynch. He is pushing for a Tony lynch. It is extremely careless for you to have missed that altogether, especially after I pointed it out to you.

I also really disagree that Aimee is the lynch for today. IH is the lynch for today, because he is scum. There was actually some reasoning behind his case on Tony, though. I will ponder this over the next day...

I find YB's play suprisingly both noobish and townlike. Here's why. He bandwagons IH with little reasoning because he thinks it's better for town for IH to be lynched rather than him, and he then goes after Aimee when he thinks she is scumy, forgetting why he originally voted IH. He even votes her for bandwagoning when his last vote was a bandwagon, lol.
He then forgot that this was a nightless game. Like John before him, I find it hard to believe that anyone receiving the scum PM would not realize that there was no NK. Someone who got the vanilla PM, on the other hand, might make such an oversight and forget that this is a nightless game, because for vanillas there is little difference in how the game will play out for nightless/nightful. I have no intention of ignoring John's posts, however. I could, possibly, be wrong about John/YB. I don't think so though, I think IH or John is the play for today. Also, with such silly reasoning, YB may not be someone the town wants around, town or scum.

Skruffs, stop actively lurking, it makes the case against you even easier. Also, do you not find IH an appealing candidate? He pushed for the Occult lynch, and is now pushing for Tony who in your own words was a scummy townie instead of pushing for John who you believe to be scum.

Elias, I await that post, I realized that I only didn't find you scummy because you have been lurking all game.

If deadline is not removed, I implore you all to lynch IH or John and not some other ridiculous last minute wagon (like Aimee's imo, her post was in the context of a deadline and wasn't really scummy at all), preferably IH.

That's all I can think of for now, adios.

[Skruffs]

>.<
THe bulk of the argument against John (your predeccessor) day one was because he asked if mafia got nightkills (or whatnot).

What are the chances that someone would make the same mistake as the person they replaced?
Good grief.

[Elias_the_thief]

er, Ive hardly been lurking all game. I was out for the weekend, and I havent got around to posting my opinions as early as I liked. I suppose you could say Ive been lurking from yesterday to today, but honestly, I cant put a decent post in on all my games in one day.

Anyways, Im in school right now. Cant really post my analysis here.

[Aimee]

Can we have the deadline retracted? Mainly since I will be unable to post a large post until Friday evening (I have an exam on Friday), and I need to reply to some things said here.

[Guardian]

er, Ive hardly been lurking all game.

True, sorry. You have been lurking since I joined, but that's been only a few days. You had some substantive midgame posts, again apologies. I reread your posts and still have no great reason to think you are scum, and I now remember that your didn't blip my scumdar because I agreed with your logic.

My thoughts on you:

i think any intelligent scum would make it a point not to ask that, but ask about some other power role

This is an open setup... power roles? Scum who forgot there were no power roles? Only scummy thing I saw by you.

Midgame you attack NAR a lot, sentiments I agree with.
Then Skruffs replaced and you analyzed him as being probable scum... which I again agree with.

That's pretty much a summary of what I get from you... an attack on NAR/Skruffs... I agree with it though, he is on my list of scum four.

Skruffs, please answer my question about if you agree that IH is a good lynch, especially if John is lynched and turns up scum. You can't have missed it; this is the third time I am mentioning it.

[Skruffs]

GUardian - I'm curious why you think NAR was scum... presumably it's based on the same reasons Elias thinks so - but Elias actually saw what NAR said and is upset because of that. You haven't seen any of the aggravational stuff that NAR directly said - just other people's opinons nad recollections on it. So for you to agree that I am scum because of an argument that you haven't even - and can't - read, that's wrong.
ANd to answer your question, I rather think that IH will probbaly turn up scum if Yogurt man does. A fe other people - namely the minus 2 and minus 1 votes on occult - would also b ehigh on my list.

[Guardian]

GUardian - I'm curious why you think NAR was scum... presumably it's based on the same reasons Elias thinks so - but Elias actually saw what NAR said and is upset because of that. You haven't seen any of the aggravational stuff that NAR directly said - just other people's opinons nad recollections on it. So for you to agree that I am scum because of an argument that you haven't even - and can't - read, that's wrong.

I was reading this game even when I wasn't in it because nightless interested me and Simenon told me he was modding a game. I got to see NAR's craziness. Even had I not, hearing other's reactions to it pretty much describes what happened.

ANd to answer your question, I rather think that IH will probbaly turn up scum if Yogurt man does. A fe other people - namely the minus 2 and minus 1 votes on occult - would also b ehigh on my list.

Well, I agree with Vitr, Missmoo not so much.

Maybe, just maybe, you are town. I would like to see IH lynched first, then John/YB, but if John is indeed lynched first and turns up scum as we suspect, then we may be in agreement... And I would find it hard to believe that you would bus John and then IH, nailing two of your buddies in a row... Maybe though [/stream of consciousness]

[IH]

[quote="Skruffs]IH, your post seems to suggest you saw that Occult was an easy target day one - but you still pushed hard for him, even as you say, laying out a case against him. If you were perceptive enough to notice he was an easy target - why did you still push for him? To the point of saying that People voting tony for defending occult were moronic?
[/quote]

No, I was voting Occult for the case I layed out of course. Looking back, he was probably an easy target towards the end of the day, but not when I began a case against him. In fact, the case stalled at first, as I pressed one earlier in the day, and then brought it back up.

People voting for Tony for protecting Occult Yesterday seemed moronic to me, because they clearly would find Occult scummier if they thought Tony was defending him.

- Who was Occult suspicous of?
- Who had valid reasons for voting Occult?
- Which players jumped on the wagon and didn't contribute much?

Ok, now this actually looks like town questions. Mk, the first question isn't that useful. It could be a factor to take into account for, but look at it this way, just because he had the town's best interests at heart, didn't mean he was right about them.

The second question is good.

So is the third.

If I had to choose between John and IH, I would pick John. IH isn't the target today really. I will vote YogurtBandit, unless he comes up with some reasons why I shouldn't.

False dillemma. First she starts off between just choosing between me and John. Then she seems to try and continue that train of though, but actually tries to open it up to all range of players. Do you see what I mean.

First she just includes the two of us.

Then she says I'm not the target for today really, which then opens up to the whole scope of the town.

Then she makes it out as if we could be the only two targets, and will vote him if he doesn't come up with any other reasons.

FOS:Aimee

Well, dont vote me because of what John did, John might just have a Scum style of play. Read MY posts, Then decide.

yes, but you are of the same alignment, so it wouldn't really matter.

Romanus is right, Aimee is bandwagoning, Which is a VERY well known Scumtell.
You can call this an Omgus Vote, But, leading back to What Romanus said, You are not asking me questions, and anything at all I say will make you think I am scum. Plus, You didnt vote me anyways, So Its not Omgus.

Again, John may have gave you all suspicons of me, But Im not John! See if I am scummy or not. Do not judge me by Johns actions..

Unvote, Vote: Aimee

You just voted me, and called it a bandwagon vote, so that is a scumtell by your logic.
You just followed Romanus, and following someone is a scumtell.
You also admit she didn't vote you, but it was a bandwagoning?

Regarding this contradictions, I'm pretty sure this is a much better case than my tony case.

unvote, Vote:YogurtBandit

Regarding some things that Tony has said, I believe I WILL do a full pbp on him, because sometimes I will blow things up in my mind while thinking about them on accident = \ [bIGMEOY:Tony[/b] pending a PBP.

I also really disagree that Aimee is the lynch for today.

IH is the lynch for today, because he is scum.

There was actually some reasoning behind his case on Tony, though. I will ponder this over the next day...

Awesome reason :Laugh:

I also think it's interesting that guardian was voting me for not pressing a John case. So he thinks I am defending him or distracting from his case. I am therefore today's lynch.

This would imply that I am scummier than him. Yet, he doesn't believe that scum would defend townies, as he has stated, and they would be more likely to defend their buddy. I am, in a sense, supposedly distracting from it.

What I'm getting at is, if he doesn't think that scum would defend a townie, then why isn't he voting for Yogurt Bandit? Because for this reasoning to work out, He would have to be scum before I am scum.

Note

:His vote came BEFORE I made my comment about scum defending townies also. So I am taking information I have about his policies now, and applying them to his actions prior to that point.

[Elias_the_thief]

i think any intelligent scum would make it a point not to ask that, but ask about some other power role

This is an open setup... power roles? Scum who forgot there were no power roles? Only scummy thing I saw by you.

There arent power roles? This is my first open game, and I'm unfamiliar with the rules of open games I guess. I think you meant to say in a nightless, and in that light I now see that my comment was pretty dumb, though not necessarily suspicious. My opinion of Guardian is that he is an experienced player who will contribute, but I havent got much of a read alignment wise as of yet.

Moving on:

I don't like this Yogurt Bandit wagon at all. The only argument I have really seen, and repeatedly is that John should have been lynched yesterday, or yesterday we knew he should be lynched today, so, let's lynch him.

Do you agree with the sentiment that John should have been lynched yesterday? I dont recall. If you do, it seems wierd that you wouldnt want to put pressure on his replacement seeing as their roles are obviously the same.

IH, your basis for attacking Tony is that he had bad reasons for defending Occult, and that if Occult was scum then surely Tony would be too... Well great, but Occult was town. I am assuming that Tony's reasoning was faulty because he is newer, not because he is scum...

Defending town players IS NOT a scum tell. It isn't a "town tell", I am still unsure about Tony, but it is DEFINITELY NOT a scum tell. Pursuing Tony because of this is just more bad logic. I understand looking at him with suspicion yesterday, but today? Come on.

I agree with the majority of this post. In a normal game, I can see some WIFOM logic in which Tony woiuld try to use his defense of a town player as a defense for himself, though in a nightless I dont think scum can afford to attempt to derail townie lynches.

Anyways, Im not sure about the case on IH, Im wondoring where some players have got to/ stopped posting much of worth. Im also not liking the way that Tony showed up when there was a heated argument about him, and he chose to make a post questioning someones forgetfulness.

Guardian/ Skruffs: You guys seem confident that YB is scum, and if he comes up scum, then IH will be. But it seems that Guardian is pressing for the IH lynch more. My question: If IH is lynched, and comes up town, will you still pursue a YB lynch? or will this clear him in your mind?

[Simenon]

Vote Count
TonyMoonshine-
YogurtBandit- VitaminR, Skruffs, mustafa15, IH
Mustafa- MissMoo
IH- TonyMoonshine, Guardian,
Aimee- Romanus, YogurtBandit

Deadline- June 1st. No more extensions.

[IH]

I agree with the majority of this post. In a normal game, I can see some WIFOM logic in which Tony woiuld try to use his defense of a town player as a defense for himself, though in a nightless I dont think scum can afford to attempt to derail townie lynches.

You do have to remember that scum have to last through much more town scrutiny in this game than in any other type of game.

[YogurtBandit]

Someone please tell me how Johns actions are half of the reasons of my votings. I am not John! Its not like he said " Im John and Im Mafia." No!Yeah, you can lay suspicon on him, but whoever voted me because of him, better give me a good explanation that doesnt include him.Im serious, Proably 3 of the 4 votes are JOHNS votes! I can see getting Lynched because of me, but of John? No.

Also Aimee, Stop refering to me as John. Call me Yogurt Bandit. Or Yb. But not John.

Prod: mustafa15

Prod: VitaminR

[Elias_the_thief]

you realize that when you replace someone you inherit their role right? You realize people were pretty sure that John was scum right? The fact that a different player is playing the role doesnt change the fact that most players believe John was scum.

[YogurtBandit]

you realize that when you replace someone you inherit their role right? You realize people were pretty sure that John was scum right? The fact that a different player is playing the role doesnt change the fact that most players believe John was scum.

Yes, I know that. However, VitR, Mustafa, Even Skruffs had their votes on me because of John. Really, VitR and mustafa should be replaced, they havent posted in days. If they want to keep the vote, explain why they think I am scum.

Also, If anyone qwants to think about wagoning me cause I have 4 Votes, VitR and Mustafa will be replaced, which equals 2 votes on me. If they'll be replaced before the deadline, I dont know.

[Simenon]

I'll prod mustafa tomorrow if he doesn't post by then.

[Romanus]

Ok, I've done a reread, as I thought it was necessary this close to deadline. The only scummy thing I see from Aimee is her last post, which does have a context that makes it a whole lot less scummy. That one post just set off all my alarms. I still want to look at Aimee, but getting close to deadline she is not the play.

UNVOTE; FOS: Aimee

It is clear to me who the play is, again, after a reread. But especially the last few posts by him, especially

Someone please tell me how Johns actions are half of the reasons of my votings. I am not John! Its not like he said " Im John and Im Mafia." No!Yeah, you can lay suspicon on him, but whoever voted me because of him, better give me a good explanation that doesnt include him.Im serious, Proably 3 of the 4 votes are JOHNS votes! I can see getting Lynched because of me, but of John? No.

Also Aimee, Stop refering to me as John. Call me Yogurt Bandit. Or Yb. But not John.

Prod: mustafa15
Prod: VitaminR

What I especially love about this post is the end where he asks for prods. This is a very subtle hint to everyone that there are lurkers out there, lurkers that are on his wagon. I have no problem with them lurking. They have made their decision. It is up to each individual to make up his own mind. They have gotten out of the way, making sure YB is the target. YB is not being helpful to the town in his rants. He is trying every thing he can to get the attention off of him. There is no analysis of those on the wagon, making sure that the town knows what is going on with this "mislynch." Think about it this way: Scum don't want us townies looking at voting records and reasons for voting. Scum want you on the here and now, not the record people leave behind, which is the best evidence. YB is all about the here and now. To the point of wanting everyone to forget that his character was played by John, very scumily according to a good number of people in this town.

The fact is that John did act very scummy. I'm still not sure how Occult got in over John when looking at the reread. I understand that I didn't like this wagon a page or two ago, but I have to say, I really like it right now.

Vote: YogurtBandit

That puts him at -2 I believe. 12 alive 7 to lynch, mine being the 5th