Mini 1601: B_E's Mind Mafia ABANDIFIED

[OkaPoka]

reading. summaries and read list would be nice pls

[OkaPoka]

I think beast is scum. Or Csareo. They are my scummiest players. But they can't be on the same team.

[Fat_Tony]

I think beast is scum. Or Csareo. They are my scummiest players. But they can't be on the same team.

Going on the limited reading I have been able to do so far, I agree on Csareo. His first post SCREAMED scum to me and nothing he followed it up with gave me any confidence at all. However, I've only read three pages and won't be voting until I have read the whole thread. I can tell I'm going to enjoy that /s

[T S O]

Oka, do you think Beast is incapable of bussing ...?

[OkaPoka]

Seeing half of the player list was replaced day one we should have a second rvs

[Ythill]

Ohey I'm back and there's four new pages. I've skimmed, going to read in depth and take notes before posting again. Replacements are hell on my notes, BTW. Sadface.

Rushing the lynch is kinda scummy. Calling for a flustered player to claim @ L-2 is scummy as fuck. So, yeah, some people got more suspicious. TSO sullies himself a bit too, because his doublespeak around Csareo sounds like a mafioso who knows that the guy in the noose is town, but he also seems to be suffering from healthy townie paranoia and I have to doubt any theory that hinges on Csareo-town, at least a little.

@TSO:

I'm online sporadically at all times of day and night. I'll try to check in regularly and at least skim votes if I'm involved in a big wagon.

unvote, vote Kid A

Because bandwagoning. Moar votes pl0x?

[Ythill]

Just saw that Aegor answered my question and it confirms my suspicion about him. See posts #253, 258, 277, & 279. Aegor voted Kid and then, after asked why he voted, ISO'd to make sure it was valid. Seems more scum than town. Although I've had Aegor as town so... meh.

Okay, the game state has changed. I'd still rather not engage in full disclosure but I will, since the curiosity has been linked to questions about my alignment.

I do not like this post. If Csareo gets lynched, I will return to it. This is more of a personal note than anyhting.

What does this mean? Is the suspicion predicated on a townflip? Scumflip? Either?

[T S O]

[quote="In post 380, Ythill"TSO sullies himself a bit too, because his doublespeak around Csareo sounds like a mafioso who knows that the guy in the noose is town.[/quote]

I think Csareo is so incredibly, blatantly scum that he must be scum, but at the same time nobody except Aegor has offered any resistance and Aegor hasn't really even.

It's doublespeak because it's doublethink - I'm in two mindsets about him.

[Ythill]

Page 14 is a good one. The rest has a serious signal/noise problem but oh well. I'm fine with a second RVS as long as we are doing so in blocs.

@mod:

You still have me voting two people even though I've only placed one vote.

Reads from my now-caught-up notes

:
Scum (in order): Csareo, beast, Riddle
Town: Elias, TSO, Aegor, heph
Null/Mid/Meh/PostMoar: everyone else (sadface)

It's unlikely I am correct about all three scum reads because lurkers, but the talk about a five player game is silly. Eight slots have posted plenty.

[Ythill]

Please wagon Kid A.

Or start a reasonable wagon elsewhere so I can blatantly sheep you. Kthx.

[T S O]

Are you also scumreading Kid A, yeah?

[Ythill]

Nope. I had him at town lean early but he's posted very little content relatively, so I dropped him to null.

I'm just seriously in favor of a few quick, consecutive wagons before we decide who to lynch. Preferably not on one of my town reads but... whatevs, it's D1.

[Ythill]

Note: a lot of my increased suspicion on beast is due to impatience and tunneling. I should probably check his meta to determine if he is truly scummy or just bad at the early game.

[Riddleton]

I'm fine for a Kid A wagon as long as it isn't a lynch yet. He needs to post more (like most people. :/)

VOTE: Kid A

[Ythill]

I read a bunch of beast's town meta in iso. He is sometimes impatient and tunneling as town, but never quite this bad. Minimizing those as tells for him but not ignoring them entirely; this correction does not move him off my scum list but does put him below Riddle.

@beast:

Can you point me in the direction of your scum meta, pretty please?

@Oka:

I see you've played a few games with beast, where he was town. What is your opinion of his impatience in this game as it compares with your past experience of him. Have you played a game where he was scum?

[beastcharizard]

I think beast is scum. Or Csareo. They are my scummiest players. But they can't be on the same team.

Are we going to go down this road again? Need I remind you what happened last time?

@Ythill:

what do you mean? I have a lot of scum meta here. Like half my games I have been scum.

[Ythill]

I just didn't see any in the ones I clicked. Any scum meta where you lived through D1 will do. I prefer normals if you've got those. I just want to get the whole picture, since I'm considering a substantial amount of the points I have against you.

[OkaPoka]

Yeah beast, remember what your results of tunneling me to death was?

@ythhill I can't tell. I was being death tunneled day one from beast.

[T S O]

I don't get the Kid A wagon; I'm scumreading him, but the majority of votes seem to be to get a wagon, not a lynch. If you tell the guy they're just pressure votes, you're defeating the entire point of your vote.

[Elias_the_thief]

I don't get the Kid A wagon; I'm scumreading him, but the majority of votes seem to be to get a wagon, not a lynch. If you tell the guy they're just pressure votes, you're defeating the entire point of your vote.

No, I think he's scummy as hell. The way he showed up right when L-1 happened indicates he's watching the thread. The way he hasn't posted any of his case on Riddleton nor elaborated on his "intent to lynch" tells me he's watching the thread for opportunities to end the day.

[Elias_the_thief]

And not trying to catch scum. Sorry, forgot that part.

[beastcharizard]

I don't play many normals, but I chose 5 games that I feel represent me pretty well.

First Game on forums
Game with unique mechanic
Micro Game
Open Game
Another Open Game

Here you go, have fun with it.

[dybeck]

I'm back - I expected to have no time to post for my first day away, but I unexpectedly had no mobile internet access for the remainder. And to cap all that, my office firewall is now apparently blocking this site, but at least I'm back in the city so I have mobile if all else fails.

The chief line of discussion seems to have been Csareo, and I think I'm probably leaning scum on him too - his defensiveness about how "my town game always looks scummy" - and his Post 19 where he tried to deter voters by inferring that reading him as scum effectively marked you as a "new" player reeks of appealing to something that isn't logic. He asked some bogus questions of me in #47 that seemed more inflammatory than actual scumhunting. I suppose at that stage in the game he could be forgiven for stirring up a wagon out of nothing. I've done it myself to see who hops on - but I'm not seeing any indication that this was the intention. I'm also not a big fan of seeking mod clarifications in the thread - it always smacks of trying to look like you're actively seeking information when in fact you're not bothering to do any analysis. So his post where he asked about mafia having daytalk seemed a bit off. I still don't think I can see why we would even care whether mafia have daytalk - unless they have other day abilities, they can talk all they like for all I care.

That said, he's posted a lot. A whole lot. And that's just not something we tend to see from mafia on Day 1. I don't know how much experience he has, but it seems that so often the person that talks the most gets lynched when there's little else to go on, on Day 1.

A vanilla townie claim doesn't help his case much - but when you're a townie, you're a townie - and there's not much to be done about it.

More instructive, though, is to look at the way he was wagoned. There was a mixture of people with genuine reasons and some votes that looked a lot like jumping a bandwagon. A few were early votes, but the one that bothers me the most was Ythill's. I'm not sure I can really put my finger on exactly what bothered me, but it just looked a little like he was seeking to build a gradual case after the vote count but before the wagon got to critical stage, when his vote would have been the more scutinised L-1 or L-2 votes.

TSO makes assertions about Csareo's scumminess, but doesn't vote him. I don't like that as a general rule, but he wasn't voting anyone else either, and I've seen him keep his powder dry in this way elsewhere on the site, so maybe it's not necessarily a strong tell (although I personally think it's bad play). TSO also did at least put his money where his mouth was a little bit later.

But the worst is Aegor. In 12 hours on 16th August he went from "not feeling the Csareo wagon" to voting him - at a critical stage in the wagon, with no explanation. I'd really like to see some explanation of it.

Beastcharizard and Elias both seemed to jump on purely for the pleasure of being on a wagon, and to be honest if I'd been around I would have wanted to call them on it instantly. Elias then jumped a whole different wagon - and I'm not sure what to make of that. I could see Elias and Csareo as scumbuddies at that point - Elias wanting to call his buddy out as being scum but then start an alternate wagon to try and dissuade a lynch while there was still plenty of time.

On balance, though, looking at Aegor in iso, there is a lot of fluff, a lot of wagon-hopping, and not much in his posts that gives me the impression that he's actually reading and analysing much. Maybe he's just lazy, but it feels more to me like he's scum, in the sense that scum don't need to read and analyse to make their decisions in the same way as town do. I'm happy with an UNVOTE: VOTE: Aegor

[beastcharizard]

Oh look, someone as scummy as Csareo!

VOTE: Dybeck

Your wall is a scum wall. Also you fence sat on Csareo the leading wagon which doesn't look good for you either.

[dybeck]

Great analysis there beast. No way you're scum then. And yeah, I did vote Csareo, for a reason that I explained at the time. If you have a case to make, I suggest you go ahead and make it.

Incidentally,

@mod:

your vote counts have consistently had me voting Kid A, when I came off him quite early on after RVS.